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Forums > Maps and Mods

21 Jul 17, 15:58
By James Luke
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Member
That's because it's doing a runtime conversion of the samples. Check the developer output.
21 Jul 17, 22:49
By Admer456
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Member
I've got some neat stuff about Kobbl coming up soon.
For now, since I don't have the screenshots, I'll just write some text:

The map will be configured to make players run a bit slower, and I'll try making the gravity a little bit stronger, too.

Basically, I can put sv_friction, sv_gravity, sv_accelerate, sv_airaccelerate etc. in the map .cfg file. This means that, if I tweak them in a specific way, the map will have the feeling of slight, additional inertia while you're moving in it.

Why is that? Well, the campaign version of the map will require that, because I just don't want players bunny hopping in the map, as that could just ruin the map since some parts will require stealth.

Ah well, what else to expect from a pack of typical Sven Co-op players? This is why I'd rather not like to see the map being abused on public servers.

Next, I'll not need to worry much about the materials. In this case, I'm referring to the sounds emitted depending on the texture. Sven Co-op allows a custom materials.txt. grin - :D

I also found out a bug in the teleporting part of the healer. I'm yet to discover the issue and the solution.

And lastly, I am optimising the map on the VIS side of things:



Wow. There are around 1100 portalleafs and 3000 numportals in the map. I'm looking forward to reducing that number a little bit. :3
22 Jul 17, 00:45
By Windawz
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Member
How would you implement stealth into a GS map?
22 Jul 17, 08:03
By Admer456
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Member
Into a Svengine map. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Edit:
Also, have you ever seen this Half-Life mod called Operations 1942?
Well, they seemingly implemented stealth without coding, as far as I can tell.
22 Jul 17, 08:12
By Windawz
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Member
Don't know where you found such a term as Svengine, but it's still GS, even though it's modified.

Of course, you can implement illusionary stealth without coding. The simpliest example is a dark jail map with spotlights scattered around. When you enter a spotlight beam, the alarm gets activated. That's the simpliest form of stealth.

Or you can try to do something with scripted_sequences.
22 Jul 17, 08:55
By Admer456
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Member
I know it's still GoldSRC, but it's GoldSRC × 1.5!
The term 'Svengine', I found it somewhere. I'm not exactly sure where, but I guess I'm not the only one who calls it that way.

Also, Windawz, take a look at Sven Manor. You should look around there, and you'll surely find lots of stuff. Sven Co-op introduced a bunch of new things, and I can't wait to use them. (I actually can, but I'm just saying that I'm excited for them)

Anyway, I'm sure there's a way to add stealth. You'll see.
22 Jul 17, 09:14
By Windawz
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Member
Quote:
"Anyway, I'm sure there's a way to add stealth. You'll see."


If I were you I'd just mimic it, so players will THINK the map has stealth.
22 Jul 17, 14:38
By Rimrook
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Guru
There are triggers in the monster entities for detection like if the player is seen, heard, generally detected, that kinda stuff. Paired with good mapping and a clever entity setup, it's very possible.
22 Jul 17, 15:44
By Shepard62700FR
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Member
With what Rimrook said, you could get stealth à la "Condition Zero Deleted Scenes", won't be fantastic but you got a little something.

The reason I said "not fantastic" is because CS:CZ:DS doesn't feature "real" stealth. Seriously, run like a madman in the bank's mission and they won't hear you.
22 Jul 17, 16:23
By Admer456
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Member
Having played CS:CZ:DS, I know what it looks like. There are dedicated hiding areas where the NPCs won't see the player, and then some missions like Miami Heat have parts where you have to memorise the NPC's walking pattern.

Lol. Well, time to get those screenshots, or maybe a video...

In the meantime, I managed to optimise the map well enough so that hlvis.exe only takes 4 minutes and 4 seconds! grin - :D
And when you realise it took more than 2.6 hours yesterday... wow. I was mind-blown.



22 Jul 17, 17:37
By Windawz
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Member
@Rimrook

Quote:
"like if the player is seen"


Seen not by the NPC itself, but by the engine, I think that's how it works.
I'll test it when I have some spare time.

You can simulate stealth with cleverly placed triggers and scripted sequences as I said. I think this will look and work much better.
22 Jul 17, 19:06
By Admer456
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Member
@Windawz
You silly, little kid, that's exactly what he said!

"Paired with good mapping and a clever entity setup, it's very possible."
Games are illusions anyway, so is every single stealth in every single game.

I'm capable of doing both, so this shouldn't be that hard to implement.
I'll do a testmap just to develop the actual setup for it. tongue - :P
22 Jul 17, 20:08
By Windawz
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Member
I'm too silly for this site xd
22 Jul 17, 20:09
By Rimrook
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Guru
I thought it was a "seen by npc" thing because you can change where the npc's "eye" is using the model's qc script. I gathered it was an origin point for a ray that fires at the center of the player's phys box. This is mostly speculation, I never delved into engine stuff.
22 Jul 17, 21:55
By Admer456
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Member
I'll see what I can do.
In the meantime, look at some of the screenshots here:
https://forums.svencoop.com/showthread.php/
44725-Kobbl-(a-k-a-that-map-from-CS-1-6)?
p=528017#post528017
23 Jul 17, 17:47
By Snehk
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Member
So today I:

- Compiled SE2 engine sources (RBDoom3BFG engine, modified by motorsep and hit team for Steel Storm 2, released GPL).

- It came with minimal assets for the engine to run at all (swf menus, hud, some of required assets like fonts), but not for running maps (would stop on loading, console throwing out errors), so I checked EoC mod and d3starterkit for reference, added some base assets and implemented my own base game logic.

- Removed requirement for player to start with a model (as simple as turn spawnargs and model checks into comments). This would be better in the long run, as I won't be stuck with D3 rig and would be able to model player my own way (base engine searches for hardcoded joints and bone names).

- I actually tried to make my own player model first, so I hastily modelled it out, made fast UV Mapping, rigged in blender, added idle animation then exported to md5 before taking coding approach. Learning how to rig and animate models in Blender as well.

- Configured level editor and made simple room with player spawn and light (brightness is much too strong though).

Did all of the above in between being a "taxi" for my pal, doing some housework and running errands. This is the effect:



The 64 dev texture has normal and specular mapping. HUD was made by engine authors for their project, but fiddling with SWF (or restoring old Doom3 GUI and making new one) would take too much time for a "Just run a map today".
23 Jul 17, 20:09
By Windawz
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Member
Discovered a more performance-friendly way of making caves:



@Snehk

Storm Engine 2?
23 Jul 17, 21:02
By Snehk
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Member
This new way of making caves looks neat. You're using those bordering walls as reference?

Yep, an idTech 4 with idTech 5 rendering code and further modifications. This is just messing with engines in general. And I couldn't get it to work before... just had to prove myself that I can resurrect it. If I can manage to improve game logic and assets further, I could make my project on it.

The engine comes with numerous in-built tools (lights, GUI, ragdoll, particle editors, script debugging). It just has much less documentation than UE4 (I find blueprints and it's other graphical editors more confusing than writing doom3 scripts...), full collision model, AI, area awareness system with dynamic obstacle avoidance and proprietary physics engine (proprietary = written by id, GPL).
23 Jul 17, 21:06
By Windawz
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Member
@Snehk

Those bordering walls are the hull. The sets of triangles are func_details. It's like making a fake tunnel like this:



But here you use the fake terrain instead of just prisms.

As for SE2, I hope you're not going to port your project to it. What if when you release it I'll want to make some custom content for it? grin - :D
23 Jul 17, 21:13
By Snehk
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Member
There's nothing to port, so far I made only concept arts and such, there's no gamecode to move and I decided to make better models anyway. If I'll get anything done on it, I'll most probably release modding info.

I understood how that method works. What I meant when asking is it a reference I asked if those walls are going to stay there once the tunnel is ready.
23 Jul 17, 21:30
By Windawz
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Member
I'll keep monitoring the ModDB page then.

Yes, the walls are going to stay. Before I got this idea I used that way instead:



Those are wbrushes, so they affect VIS. Because of that the map takes longer to compile.

Heh, maybe I'm not that silly...
23 Jul 17, 22:13
By Snehk
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Member
Well, looking at those screenshots now I see why new new method is quicker.

The ModDB page is updated infrequently, though I changed the description lately.
23 Jul 17, 23:57
By Admer456
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Member
@Windawz
Your clipnode count will get wrecked if you use too many func_details, even if you use the Bevel texture.
Be careful. :3

(unless those are passable "zhlt_noclip 1" func_details!)
24 Jul 17, 20:10
By Windawz
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Member
Added detail textures:

24 Jul 17, 20:31
By Victor-933
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Member
I'M NOT DEAD, I DON'T WANT TO GO ON THE CART

So apparently I somehow won first place in C34... not sure how mine is better than Archie's but whatever. Thank you.

Also, been screwing with other maps again. Can't decide on a layout for DM_Subterrane (I've literally restarted half a dozen times) so I'm putting that on hold.

I decided I really disliked the layout in DM_Powerstruggle, so I took the core and a couple other pieces and am rebuilding from there, and incorporating the type of maintenance passages seen in DM_Fenrir.







24 Jul 17, 20:38
By Windawz
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Member
This looks... Incredible. You're a pro! I wish I had your skill.
24 Jul 17, 21:42
By Trempler
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Member
Windawz you are not far behind to be fair, your mapping is also pretty great wink-wink - ;)

Nice to see you back here Victor, lovely stuff as usual smile - :)
24 Jul 17, 22:13
By Snehk
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Member
Great shots Victor! And I agree with Trempler, you're a great mapper Windawz!

Modelled out a simple fountain:



24 Jul 17, 22:22
By Shepard62700FR
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Member
I'm jealous of everyone's mapping/modeling skills ^^
24 Jul 17, 22:34
By Admer456
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Member
@Shepard62700FR
But there's someone who's jealous of your programming/coding skills. wink-wink - ;)
Lol.
24 Jul 17, 22:38
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
@Victor! Great architectur!!! WoW!

@Separd Hihi you're jealous like me too tongue - :P
25 Jul 17, 00:38
By Windawz
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Member
Thanks to the new cave building method, LeafThread now takes 3 seconds less to finish and the amount of faces (in-editor) has decreased from over 20k to 19010. Not a big improvement, but still better than nothing.
25 Jul 17, 12:58
By Admer456
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Member
A decrease of 1000 faces would mean so much to me, mostly for my laptop. XD
25 Jul 17, 17:39
By Windawz
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Member




25 Jul 17, 21:40
By Admer456
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Member
Before:

After:

(the rock texture doesn't have a detail texture, by the way tongue - :P)

Cause:

Consequence:


What do you think? wink-wink - ;)
25 Jul 17, 21:47
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Wait @Admer456 did you tried r_detailtexture 1 in console window and did you check?


If you use Half-Life or Counter Strike than you need check r_detailtexture. If it doesn't work than I think Half-Life Engine has bug? possible... Please ask "The303" because somebody is clever cat!
25 Jul 17, 22:03
By Snehk
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Member
I think he meant that there are no detailtextures in use on that rock.

If they don't work, then they must be badly set up in the first place, like texture names not matching or some other problem with setting them up properly.
25 Jul 17, 23:25
By Admer456
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Member
Yes, no detail textures have been made for the rock (I make them myself tongue - :P).
I've never known that detail textures can be so fun. grin - :D
I can make a texture look dirty, or burnt out, or make it have scratches, and many more stuff. But I mostly use them in the map to cover the 64x64 diffuse textures, which really helps me out with AllocBlock.

Now I reduced the usage from 61/64 to 55/64, which is pretty nice and leaves me more room for things. Since I'm using it in Sven Co-op, though, crossing the old AllocBlock limit shouldn't result in an error, right?

Lastly, people who disable the detail textures on their end will experience a significantly different aesthetic, quality, look and feel in my map as of now.

@SourceSkyBoxer
I can't see your image in your post. It appears to be blocked for me. surprised - :o
26 Jul 17, 00:07
By Windawz
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Member
I liked those detail textures so much I filled the whole map with these:



I shouldn't have done that I suppose?
26 Jul 17, 00:55
By Admer456
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Member
One DeTx for all? XD
Not really a bad idea, as I'm using the same detail texture for 3 grass textures in Kobbl. But man, you really should try experimenting a bit with them. It can get really interesting sometimes, you know.
26 Jul 17, 02:07
By Windawz
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Member
There are actually three detail textures: one for the ground, one for the rock and one for all the buildings and interiors. I also adjusted the scale of the Dtextures for every single texture. The effect is great to be honest.
26 Jul 17, 06:28
By Dimbeak
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Local Man Ruins Everything
Lookin' pretty damn sweet, Windawz.
26 Jul 17, 09:48
By Admer456
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Member
Yes, good job, just make sure you don't alter the brightness of the original texture too much. It can mean a huge difference in ambience etc. especially in night maps like Kobbl.

I've discovered that just by tweaking the contrast and brightness, you can get different levels of influence on the main texture. (which is pretty obvious, I knew it already)

If the contrast is high, the bright spots will be even more bright, and dark spots will be very dark, and that's why the detail texture will be very noticeable, so you should be a bit careful with what you choose. On the other hand, lowering the contrast will blend your detail texture more and it will stand out less.

The same thing about brightness goes for making the texture too dark. I have this texture MZ_KOBBL_1, and it's some sort of a pavement.
When I put a black'n'white detail texture on top of the 64x64 main texture, it was pretty dark. But in such a good way that I thought it was wet! grin - :D
Basically, I made a mistake and ruined the map's feel a little bit. Except this wasn't a bad mistake in this case, as it made the texture look wet, which is an excellent reason for me to add rain. Lol.
This stuff is cool. I luv it! <3
26 Jul 17, 09:55
By Windawz
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Member
Indeed, you can alter the look of the map with just one detail texture.

The detail textures made my map even darker, but that's exactly what I wanted to achieve. This place is "dead" after all.

Also, Sven Coop doesn't have the env_rain entity. How are you going to implement rain then?
26 Jul 17, 10:00
By Admer456
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Member
I'll place a few non-solid func_conveyors with a scrolling rain texture, I'll put a few rain-splash sprites, and a rain sound. wink-wink - ;)

Who needs env_rain? >:P

By the way, I found out that Sven Co-op can have more entities per visible packet, so adding this much stuff won't really make entities disappear like it would do in standard GoldSRC.
26 Jul 17, 10:06
By Windawz
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Member
That trick with func_conveyors seems a bit ugly to me.
Is it possible to add a realistic-looking rain with AngelScript?
26 Jul 17, 10:16
By Trempler
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Member
Yes @ Windawz.
26 Jul 17, 11:39
By Windawz
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Member
Raised the edges of the cliffs (and retextured them as well) to prevent players from getting there:



26 Jul 17, 14:25
By Admer456
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Member
@Windawz
My problem with AngelScript is that I have insufficient coding knowledge to achieve this stuff. But nothing prevents me from learning it, lol.
But hey, doing the func_conveyor trick isn't really that ugly!
26 Jul 17, 14:59
By Solokiller
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Member
@Windawz depends on how you want to do it. Client side scripting would make it relatively easy, server side scripting could still cause overflows.
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