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Forums > Maps and Mods

22 Aug 17, 11:42
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
@Admer, great job - I know that grin - :D
22 Aug 17, 12:14
By Instant Mix
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Horton hears a who?
Victor you are nailing the quake vibes man!
22 Aug 17, 22:31
By Snehk
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Member
Learned how to make UV Maps in Wings 3D - much easier, quicker and more effective than LithUnwrap.



I assigned each body parts different colors, then I could select parts of the model by material, separately UV Map them, combine them into one proper UV Map (uniform scaling, move and rotations), created texture and then exported it.

Exported to 256x256 .bmp, no stretching issues. I actually UV Mapped only half of the model - the other half is a virtual mirror!
22 Aug 17, 23:30
By Instant Mix
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Horton hears a who?
Decided to do a wee timelapse of a room being blocked out, give it a watch if you wish: Youtube Video
23 Aug 17, 02:47
By Victor-933
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Member



23 Aug 17, 07:20
By Windawz
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Member












I wonder if Quake supports texture lighting.
23 Aug 17, 08:40
By Admer456
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Member
Texlights? Just create a light entity and, you know, my FGD will probably help you. :3
No need to define any spotlight cone angles, just leave them as they are.
23 Aug 17, 09:41
By Windawz
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Member
So Quake doesn't have texlights... Great
23 Aug 17, 18:39
By Dr. Orange
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Member
Quote:
Windawz: So Quake doesn't have texlights... Great

But then again, it doesn't have colored or bounced lights either.
23 Aug 17, 22:35
By Admer456
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Member
Windawz, just create one light per texture and specify the texture name in the keyvalues, and you'll see! It's 2017, not 1996.

I got incredibly pissed off right now, thanks to you two. >:(
First, it's not Quake itself that has texlights, but it's the compiler that supports them or not.

Second, Quake maps can have coloured lights and bounced lights. Why are you so stubborn?
Bounced lights are up to the compiler, and coloured lights are up to the compiler and the sourceport.

Tyrutils-ericw is a special branch of TyrUtils that was made for better lighting stuff.
Including projecting textures themselves into lightmaps!

Sorry for getting mad like this, but I tried to calm down. xd
24 Aug 17, 16:14
By Instant Mix
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Horton hears a who?
a few brushwork errors that I'll need to investigate ( vertex wise, they are OK ) but apart from that, surprised this thing is even stable. In no rush to recompile it, thing took at least 5 minutes. And it's a single room.


also absolutely fuck going off grid, it's a pain in the arse trying to keep room dimensions the same at ~120 degrees, but J.A.C.K doesn't have the "rotate by 0" trick to snap all vertices to the grid.. Pain in the arse.
24 Aug 17, 19:07
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Quote:
also absolutely fuck going off grid, it's a pain in the arse trying to keep room dimensions the same at ~120 degrees, but J.A.C.K doesn't have the "rotate by 0" trick to snap all vertices to the grid.. Pain in the arse.
Yeah I already explained to aledsmod.net forum. But they do not help that.

J.A.C.K. has still bug. You remember I want 4 triangles into 90 ° angle like perpendicular triangle of edge shoud be perpendicular than other vertice is same perpendicular than it looks bad. unhappy - :(

I recommend with SketchUp and KHed or Blender than you can create null or chip brush ( Make sure cycle from zhlt_usemodel with throwing lights ) than your map should center with origin and you draw easy - if you whole model in wirelines on 2d grid draw if it is same to model-like brush.

Do not forget 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, .. unit-correct

If you want draw less than 1 unit like 0.5 make sure 2 unit into 1 unit
like this screenshot
1. Draw 2 units quader
2. Resize small to 1 unit.

Than It looks better than brush made from J.A.C.K. Since I always have problem with brush made pipelines but it throws errors because it can not make real just I create models.

PS: Please use UMHLT! No normal VHLT! Because I saw your screenshots and your map has hidden invalid face ( texture hole )
25 Aug 17, 03:15
By Windawz
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Member
@Instant Mix

If you have any missing faces in your map, try tying the problem brushwork to func_detail. Or you can try UMVHLT as SSB suggested. It should work for GS.
25 Aug 17, 09:53
By Instant Mix
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Horton hears a who?
I gave UMVHLT a bash, seems to have fixed the issues ( and surprisingly seemed like it had a much faster compile time). Doesn't avoid J.A.C.K's offgrid issues however
25 Aug 17, 11:53
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Quote:
Doesn't avoid J.A.C.K's offgrid issues however

I think you don't buy steam version of J.A.C.K. because newest version of J.A.C.K. has fixed floating map-stucture like Valve 220. Did you buy J.A.C.K.?

My J.A.C.K.10.12x from steam version same Windawz.

If you try than you can go back Valve Hammer Editor 3.5/3.4 than compile again. If you see your after-compiled map???
25 Aug 17, 12:20
By Admer456
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Member
Leaving my comment here:
I use J.A.C.K. 1.1.1064, which is the free version, and I rarely had any problems with off-grid brushes.
When I create arches, cylinders or anything curved, I mostly use the Block tool for that, because whatever you produce, the shape gets no off-grid vertices.

And, when I want to make slanted surfaces on structures like that, I'd use a pencil and the VM tool. I basically place the pencil on the screen, and I use that as a line from one edge to the centre of the brush. And that's how I 'scale' the vertices without using the Vertex Scale function. tongue - :P

Use pencils! They're your best friends! big grin - :biggrin:
25 Aug 17, 12:27
By Instant Mix
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Horton hears a who?
I'm not going to buy J.A.C.K from steam; unless it has something that's worth the £15+ compared to the completely viable,free tools we've been using for almost 20 years, it ain't worth that price.

I was more implying the inability to snap points to the grid which I can do by firing up 3.5 & rotating by 0. Most of those issues arose from rotating quite detailed sections of the map; if its an accurate rotation the likelihood of any of the vertices remaining on the grid is virtually nonexistent.

I've also realised I can use a shitload of func_trains as doors; the angle of the path_corner allows them to fit in offset hallways, and they also force close by crush - something func_doors can't do. Will post results of the experiment once I'm back from el fringe
25 Aug 17, 12:29
By Admer456
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Member
Quote:
unless it has something that's worth the £15+

That's the thing. It doesn't. At least not yet.
I.m.o. it's more like a way of saying "Thank you" to the developer, which I might do after I open that bank account. :p

Hey, at least it's not €45 or something! xD

Lastly:
I.m.o. having to rotate a detailed part of the map is probably the result of not-so-good planning. This is why I don't like mapping according to my instincts, but then again, I don't have much to worry about because I add the real details much later on.

In the end, everything can simply be reworked, and even if it takes time, it's worth it, no?
25 Aug 17, 13:04
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Quote:
I'm not going to buy J.A.C.K from steam; unless it has something that's worth the £15+ compared to the completely viable,free tools we've been using for almost 20 years, it ain't worth that price.


That is why old version has bugs of map structures because it supports only Quake Engine map version like wrong map version. You should check if it hasn't Valve 220. Like under Sven Coop Forum I have same problem with J.A.C.K. Since curvy hallway with 3 windows - I try fix VHE 3.4 / 3.5 - My map looks fine after problems...

You need go VHE 3.5 / 3.4 - If you don't want buy but Admer suggested you. You should say thanks for developer! Please don't force that!

Since I think before if J.A.C.K. under Steam released than I hold and J.A.C.K. ( old version ) still has bugs and I will buy later than I don't worry that if I buy it. I check map structure of Valve 220 map version and it looks real like VHE 3.4/3.5

Thanks!
25 Aug 17, 16:30
By Instant Mix
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Horton hears a who?
I'd be happy to thank the developer by donation, or if there really was some game-changing feature that the full version had in comparison to the free version; however for the amount of money they're wanting, it's not very enticing.

I'd disagree about having to rotate sections of the map Admer; the main arched area of the map has 72 sections; this would be a complete and utter waste of my time to texture, align and edit each individual section of the arch; rather than exploiting the 120 degree symmetry of the map. I also delibrately wanted to go off the standard axes as I think it's fairly noticeable in game that you only really travel in 4 dimensions; adding that extra bit of dimensionality spices it up a tad. Obviously, you have to deal with the issue of the frustrating geometry.

From this, I can tell I prefer doing the bulk of mapping in J.A.C.K due to the model previews and transparent / animated textures and target field selection; doing any further edits (ie. snapping to grid) in VHE.

True Admer, however unfortunately when you have to adult you don't have a large amount of time on your hands, and as a physicist / programmer, I want to optimise everything as much as I can - knowingly redoing parts of the map or doing things that I know I can speed up frustrates me.
25 Aug 17, 18:34
By zeeba-G
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3D
Instant, your screens are awesome and inspirational!
25 Aug 17, 18:46
By Windawz
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Member
@SSB

Quote:
"My J.A.C.K.10.12x from steam version same Windawz."


I use the free version actually.
25 Aug 17, 19:26
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Quote:
I use the free version actually.

Really are you seriously? Can I see your Steam? grin - :D
25 Aug 17, 22:38
By Admer456
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Member
@Instant Mix
Lucky me, I guess. I did have to rework parts a bunch of times, though. And not just simple things. It includes detail props like pillows (pretty not-easy to make!), a blanket and a toilet (yeah, I literally redid those).

Grigori's quotes from HL2 truly fit me well. "The work of a man who once had too much time on his hands [...].".
I have a whole life in front of me, so do you, and some people have lived through a half of it. Don't worry, there's still time, you and I will finish our projects someday (and that applies to all mappers!). There's time, and that's all that matters. smile - :)

Hmm, but once (or if) we become grandpas...

Man, imagine mapping in the 2050's and 60's. NHLT v55 is released, mapping tools are so sophisticated, etc.
Or, wouldn't Source (or Source 2) then become what GoldSRC is now? :O
26 Aug 17, 02:33
By Instant Mix
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Horton hears a who?
Man literally just think about what you're posting sometimes
26 Aug 17, 08:19
By Admer456
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Member
Maybe I should post less when it's midnight. Or not post at all.

But, it's true, I've reworked stuff in my maps. One part I can remember is the bricks in de_kobbl (as well as a part of the terrain and that wash basin).
There were moments where I had to do it in not just mapping, but modelling as well... now that was a pain in the neck. At least I managed to do it. tongue - :P

Anyway, going back on topic:


No, I don't want to learn modelling because I don't have as much time as I us-
Oh, wait. If I wanted to learn modelling, I'd have to do it the same way I learned mapping - by simply not doing anything else on my laptop and completely focusing on modelling.
I don't want to do that. tongue - :P





Yeah... this is Quake 1 alright. XD
28 Aug 17, 16:39
By Windawz
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Member


28 Aug 17, 18:41
By Admer456
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Member
Haha, Windawz does it like it's done in the classical mapping times. grin - :D
I like it, just beware of the "Reached occupant" error, i.e. don't make your cliphulls leak.

I've mostly textured these, though:






Don't even mention the air conditioner. xd


Silly me, I forgot to add toilet paper. laughing - :lol:
31 Aug 17, 16:04
By Crollo
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Trollo
First serious project in blender.

It's a pain not knowing the hotkeys yet, but the tool set is surprisingly well-featured and makes more sense IMO than 3ds max in some ways.
31 Aug 17, 18:42
By UrbaNebula
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Entirely brush based
Intercoursey
31 Aug 17, 19:16
By kruk
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Member
Quote:
It's a pain not knowing the hotkeys yet, but the tool set is surprisingly well-featured and makes more sense IMO than 3ds max in some ways.

HEH XD personally i'm moving from max to blender after 10 years working on max -.-, after 3 months workin on blender i can tell it's a good decision. And there is a definite future with Blender since its evolving dynamically compared to max.

There are some issues especially with animating overall i like it.
But it can be a pain for a previous MAX user XD

Nice model and render BTW ;]
31 Aug 17, 19:49
By Snehk
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Member
Great model and render Crollo!

I use Blender only for animating and exporting, I somehow can't stand it's UI and workflow when working on anything else...

After a loong while of procrastinating and being busy as hell, here is my latest work. A really simple ruined wall with window, made with quads and tesselated, should be about 256 units high and long after scaling it 16 times up. It's already UV Mapped, but I haven't worked on it's texture yet.

01 Sep 17, 00:26
By Rimrook
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Guru
I moved to blender from max after ten years as well.
Welcome to the 'I moved from max to blender after ten years' club.

We have hats.

That model is super nice though. I haven't yet done anything serious yet in blender.
01 Sep 17, 11:22
By Admer456
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Member
Quote:
"I haven't yet done anything serious yet"


Gak! - :gak:
01 Sep 17, 13:49
By Rimrook
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Guru
I know that bad grammar I'm sorry plz forgiv
01 Sep 17, 17:11
By Admer456
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Member
To be honest, I'm the one who should be sorry. tongue - :P
Anyway, back to some screenshots:



Aww, this is cute. :3


This is cuter! <3


This is more of an imitation of CryEngine's terrain. The textures are projected mostly in one axis (in this case it's the Z axis).


Now that looks less like GoldSRC i.m.h.o. tongue - :P

Lastly, I've tried out J.A.C.K.'s built-in UV-mapping lock emulator.



It works well enough if you move the vertices in one axis.
The left side was moved in both the X and Y axis, while the vertices on the right side were only moved in the Y axis. wink-wink - ;)
(and then the Z axis but without the UV lock tongue - :P )
01 Sep 17, 19:04
By Rimrook
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Guru
I don't want to live in a world where goldsource has smooth seemless edges.
01 Sep 17, 19:58
By Kachito
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Member
As long as you're working with tetrahedra, power of 2 and texture features disabled, you'd have to try really hard to get anything but seamless edges, j.a.c.k or not.
01 Sep 17, 21:00
By Admer456
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Member
Not just tetrahedra. In this case, I used triangular prisms.
Also, this UV lock testing was for the purpose of what I'm about to write:

You basically have a 'grid' of triangles in the top view, which are actually either tetrahedra or triangular prisms.
However, you want a seamless texture, but it has to be applied on a huge surface yet stay detailed enough:


(this one is small, so 512x512 is enough)

You'd have to have four 1024x256 textures applied on 4 rows. tongue - :P

This testing was simply my way to check if the grid should be "strict":



Or if it can also be a "free" grid:



Here's why:



The free grid would have seams. tongue - :P
But, this way, we can avoid seams! grin - :D
02 Sep 17, 12:01
By Kachito
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Member
...

Why would you use something like in 2nd or 3rd screenshot anyway?
That "free grid" isn't really suited for a volumetric engine because you'll run into optimization issues as soon as you'll draw the first couple of brushes.
02 Sep 17, 13:27
By Admer456
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Member
@Kachito
Because nobody is preventing me from doing that. tongue - :P

Also, this doesn't even have a "grid":


I care and I don't care about optimisation at the same time. Haha.
02 Sep 17, 16:45
By Kachito
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Member
Ok, mate... Ridiculous Ties! - :walter:
02 Sep 17, 17:26
By Windawz
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Member
02 Sep 17, 22:49
By Snehk
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Member
@Admer - Several areas like that on one level would kill GS.

@Windawz - Really cool brushwork! You really should start a Quake or HL level pack or mod.

Here's my latest work. The almighty BanHammer...









It looks kinda unweildy, but it follows the "Banning ain't easy" route.
02 Sep 17, 22:56
By Windawz
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Member
@Snehk

Thanks. Actually I tried to make a mappack called "The Shift" a long ago. Made two unfinished maps and then switched to another project.
I'll probably upload some of my unfinished maps so someone else can finish them.
Anyway, to make a nice mappack for Q1/HL, I'll need to team up with somebody.

Nice hammer by the way. I need to try Wings3D.
03 Sep 17, 07:35
By Admer456
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Member
Quote:
"Several areas like that on one level would kill GS."


According to that, the cliffs by Windawz would kill IdTech 2 (Quake engine). Not quite the case. In my Quake map, I have quite a few terrain sections and that's not really low-poly terrain. Also, caves made out of tetrahedra. tongue - :P
The clipnodes are at 20k, though, so I'll consider switching to the BSP2 format and to a sourceport which supports BSP2.

And in GoldSRC? Well, the cute, little cliff in my picture up there has around 1100 clipnodes and 900 wpolys. So, having more of these sections in the map wouldn't reach the limits and the framerate impact wouldn't be big. However, it did take 10/64 AllocBlocks, but that's because I scaled all of the textures to 0.500. tongue - :P

In short:
Stop underestimating these old engines...
03 Sep 17, 07:54
By Snehk
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Member
I don't underestimate old engines, it's just that their limits often lead to thoughts like that. Fill several complex free-grid cliffs with several grunt squads and aliens, and framerate will drop considerably. This is often the thing for levels built on grid as well. There's also the risk of getting off-grid vertices or clipping issues.
03 Sep 17, 09:42
By Admer456
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Member
Epolys crop the framerates less than wpolys, so I don't think it would drop that hard.
Also, the year being 2017, I'm just tired of 'flat' maps. :/

I know that I should just move on to a new engine, but my point is to push the oldies to the limit. grin - :D
It's like trying to increase the speed of an old rust bucket (car). You can break it half-way through. tongue - :P
03 Sep 17, 11:12
By Windawz
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Member
Quote:
"According to that, the cliffs by Windawz would kill IdTech 2 (Quake engine)."




The whole terrain is actually a huge func_detail. I know that the cliffs will chop eachother because of that, but I was just lazy to tie every cliff to func_detail. I'd also need to set different detail levels for each cliff.
But it's pretty hard to hit the limits by making terrain this way. VIS also takes seconds to finish.

And don't confuse people, idTech 2 is the engine of Quake 2. Quake 1 runs on
the Quake Engine, or in my case on the Darkplaces engine.
03 Sep 17, 12:03
By Snehk
avatar
Member
Doom 1 and 2 runs on id Tech 1. Quake 1 runs on id Tech 2, it was heavily modified for Quake 2, but in the core it's the same engine.
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Forums > Maps and Mods

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