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A gaming and technology blog by TWHL admins Penguinboy and Ant. A music blog by TWHL users Ant and Hugh.

The Future of TWHL

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Forums > Site Comments and Suggestions

02 Feb 11, 03:17
By zeeba-G
avatar
3D
Yea something that catches game/ computer technology development and growth in general. GamersExpansion.com

Gamersdevelopmentrealm.com too broad?

compconstruct.com

Goldenresources.com

Goldengamersourse.com / Goldengameresources.com

Thewholegamer.com
02 Feb 11, 03:37
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
I give up. :<
02 Feb 11, 03:50
By Soup Miner
avatar
Me, mad? Haha, quite likely.
Without knowing exactly what audience this new community will cater to, it's nigh impossible to come up with that perfect name. We know that it'll support more engines. Will it be a select few engines or will it be ANY engine that is or will be? Which other aspects of game modding will be supported aside from mapping? Will it support entirely new game creation? If these aren't even hammered out yet, the name can wait, IMHO.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "same content, same community" now, because the others posts seem to suggest that the content will be vastly expanded upon, but it's completely unknown as to what extent.

Edit: I have no idea what's going on anymore, I'm out of this thread.
02 Feb 11, 04:05
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
So essentially you want to STEAL Atom's site and want us to come up with a new name for your operation, while you pretend to cater to an unknown new audience. I'm not sure this will work. tongue - :P

I'd REALLY try to contact Atom in any way possible. He can't just vanish from existence. smile - :)
02 Feb 11, 04:48
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
What if we don't like this new audience, what if they go against our belief system by not wearing hats?
02 Feb 11, 05:37
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
No decisions have been made at this point, it's only a discussion at the moment. I want to create a new TWHL site, but I'm not going to if I only have my current limited access to the hosting. There's also the fact that I have no control at all over the hosting, and because of this, it's possible that TWHL could disappear overnight at any time.

We have had some contact with atom and he was supportive of the idea to transfer the website onto hosting that we control. Halfway through organising the details, we stopped getting any email replies from him. The last message we got from him was over three months ago.

At this point we have to assume that atom either cant or wont talk to us. In either case, the only way the site can improve is to move the site to a host that we can control. We can't redirect the domain, because we can't contact atom. We can't get another TWHL domain, because none are available. We want to open the site up to other games and engines, but the site name almost forbids this.

Stu claims that we are trying to "steal" TWHL from atom. You really think this? I think if atom had any feeling of ownership of TWHL, he would log in once in a while. I feel that ownership of TWHL has been passed down from atom to Seventh, and then to Ant and myself. Each of us have improved TWHL in our own way, making it unique, making it ours. In my opinion, this is the next logical step.

As for scope, theoretically, the site would still focus mainly on the creation of maps for any engine that provides a map editor of some sort. We wouldn't try to compete with a site like ModDB (which is mainly for mods), it would be more like the same style of site content, and so on.

There would be a much bigger focus on MOTM and various other 'featured map' kind of things. All the tutorials would be put into a less-restrictive wiki type thing. Basically, imagine TWHL except with more engines enabled in the vault, as well as an improved, more polished, more modern website.

Hosting the site ourselves would also mean we don't have to worry about storage formats, file sizes, file limits, and so on. We could increase the maximum size of uploads allowed to the vault. We could allow texture packs, models, sounds, screenshots, and so on to be uploaded without having to worry about running out of space. There's a ton of other nice improvements that we could add to the site if we had proper control over the hosting.

I only want to help the website evolve and improve. I like the TWHL name, and would miss it if it went away, but sometimes changes are necessary to move on. I hope that helps you understand why we are thinking about this.
02 Feb 11, 05:46
By Striker
avatar
Member
Quote:
We want to open the site up to other games and engines, but the site name almost forbids this.


This is will probably destroy the community's original character and will bring lots of spammers. That being said, you're not building up this community to a higher level. You are destroying it and creating another.
Sure, it will be almost the same, until there will be lots of newcomers.

We can't assume it's going to be famous, but I bet none of us wants our community to become something like facepunch, where a shitstorm is born everyday.

I am not against this, evolution is part of our lives. But damn it, I'll shed a tear when TWHL will be gone.
02 Feb 11, 05:57
By TheGrimReafer
avatar
ADMININATOR
Quote:
"I bet none of us wants our community to become something like facepunch


Ill personally assure that wont happen. Teh Hammre! - :hammer:
02 Feb 11, 05:58
By Jessie
avatar
Ladytype
Just like growing up.
02 Feb 11, 06:11
By AJ
avatar
Glorious Overlord
I'm not entirely sure why you're all against newcomers. New people bring fresh ideas, more creativity and more friends. Yes, we will get out fair share of spam like any site does, but there's nothing that can be done about that.

Think of it this way: if you arrived at what looked like a fantastic site with great learning resources, a stock pile of excellent maps and a friendly community and was then shunned by that same community, how would you feel?

There's literally about 30-40 people who actively visit the site at the moment. That's visit, not contribute. That number will keep on declining, as it has been for a good while now.

Shitstorms are built by the community. It's your job, as the regulars and lovers of this site, to ensure that if the community grows, it grows in a friendly, helpful and entertaining manner. Acting hostile to new blood is what causes shitstorms in the first place. When I originally joined, the people here treated me incredibly well (even with my lack of knowledge of proper forum protocol). I was never publicly spoken down to or ignored. Everyone joined in and contributed possible solutions to problems and new ideas sprang forward often. Believe you me, I'm far more rosy-eyed about TWHL than most of you.

TWHL won't ever be gone unless you all start thinking that way. Have some optimism,remember what brought you all together and then embrace the fact that you're shaping a bigger, potentially greater community.
02 Feb 11, 06:22
By Jessie
avatar
Ladytype
Personally, I think it's time for a change anyway. I'm not a very sentimental person, I'll miss the name but I won't stop it leaving.
As long as all the awesome people who are here now head into the fray of a new face for TWHL as well... The only way to go is up.
02 Feb 11, 08:13
By Stojke
avatar
= O P L - 3 =
EnginePlanet?

TheMinistryOfMapping TMOM

MappersUnite

I think it needs to be something that represents mapping in general, for all games...
02 Feb 11, 09:09
By ninja defuse
avatar
Member
never ever @#!@#!@ planet in domain name

my vote goes to goldandsource
02 Feb 11, 09:09
By doodle
avatar
Member
The Whole Mapping Life

lol
02 Feb 11, 10:39
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
I like TWHL the way it is. True, newcomers would be nice, if they were decent people, but I don't want the site to be crowded. Honestly, I like knowing all the regulars, I like being familiar with the people I talk to.
As for increasing file size limits, more download sections, and maybe even that project vault idea Pengiunboy proposed a while ago with the project forums, info, etc, for individual mods (hint hint) I'm all for it. But I don't want TWHL to lose it's focus on Source and Goldsource. I wouldn't mind having maps/mods on other engines uploaded occasionally, as long as they were labeled with the correct engine. But nothing would bother me more than clicking on the latest map by someone, with a really good screenshot, then find I can't play it because it's for Cryengine. Perhaps things for other engines would have the engine on one of these underneath the screenshot? User Posted Image
Quote:
When I originally joined, the people here treated me incredibly well (even with my lack of knowledge of proper forum protocol)

That's one of the things I loved about this community from the start. But I feel that if TWHL were to grow too large, this would be lost. The small size contributes, at least in part, to the closeness of the community, and the kindness everyone feels towards each other.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Oh, and we need more source tutorials.
02 Feb 11, 11:11
By Striker
avatar
Member
Quote:
Oh, and we need more source tutorials.


I applied for one but nobody responded.
02 Feb 11, 11:13
By Suparsonik
avatar
Withstood the post-nuke test.
maps4all.com?
themaptrap.com?

I dunno.
02 Feb 11, 11:46
By RabidMonkey
avatar
mapmapmapfapmap
Quote:
themaptrap.com?


it's a trap!
02 Feb 11, 11:54
By kdunivan
avatar
Member
@everyone: and please don't take this the wrong way....

I don't think any of you realize how dire the situation is. If you could read and possibly read between the lines then you WOULD realize what is being said.

Quote:
it's possible that TWHL could disappear overnight at any time.


Are you reading this and have you all figured out that this could very well happen and if it did then we would ALL be left in the void without any idea of how to reconnect with anyone.

I think we need to get our heads out of our arshes and think of a good name cause it has been made very clear that TWHL is NOT going to be in the new name. Get over it people, you act like you are loosing your girlfriend.

It's a freakin website, not your personal platform to be an ass; although I am quite good at that myself. I know we are all comfortable here. I don't like the crap any more than any of you but I am willing to change.

Call the site whatever you want. It is NOT the name that makes the site necessarily. It's the people, and we have a great group here.

And Ant is right, why are you all so afraid of new people? It's taken me awhile to fit in here and I have been here forever. You people are harsh sometimes, and you know it. And personally, 30-40 people is not enough people to keep a website running. You might as well just have a blog.

Stop being selfish!

WorldCrafters.com and we make Soup an Administrator, of course.

I like ya Soup, even if you don't like me.
02 Feb 11, 13:32
By RabidMonkey
avatar
mapmapmapfapmap
Quote:
Are you reading this and have you all figured out that this could very well happen and if it did then we would ALL be left in the void without any idea of how to reconnect with anyone.


There are other platforms of communication other than a forum y'know wink-wink - ;)
02 Feb 11, 13:41
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
ANYWAY! If this site could go down overnight, STOP TRYING TO PICK A NAME START DEVELOPING!

I suggest everyone get into the TWHL Steam group or Twitter or some other non-TWHL way of getting info about developments, admins organize something and let us know. If I may suggest, Grim has some amazing web dev talents that could add to the work force.

So get going!
02 Feb 11, 15:59
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Quote:
Stu claims that we are trying to "steal" TWHL from atom. You really think this?

To be honest, I was just kidding. Some things one can't express correctly using text.

There's a counter point to your plan, however. Assume you finally give up on Atom and move everything to a new server. But Atom doesn't know that, so now he's paying for an empty server. Or worse, a server that holds the old TWHL as it was the day the new site was launched, confusing the situation even further. New users will come across the "old", abandoned TWHL and will leave disappointed in a few days seeing it's deserted, or stick around and interact with other new clueless members, forming a sub-community.

Perhaps it needs more thought.
02 Feb 11, 16:14
By SpaG
avatar
Member
Out of all suggestions for a new name, I liked the "Map Vault" one the most.
Change is inevitable, we must adapt to survive. If that means changing the name, or supporting more engines, I'm fine with that.
If the need for a programmer arises, I would love to help!
02 Feb 11, 16:37
By TheGrimReafer
avatar
ADMININATOR
Quote:
New users will come across the "old", abandoned TWHL and will leave disappointed in a few days seeing it's deserted


We have enough control over the site to throw in a redirect at least.
02 Feb 11, 16:47
By AJ
avatar
Glorious Overlord
There is another reason why we're proposing a such a bold move. As mentioned in my first post, the Admin team have full-time jobs and various other commitments. Rebuilding a website takes a lot of time. If we decide to keep things the same when we do the rebuild, we'd be putting in all this time and effort for the 40 people that visit the site.

As for the issue raised concerning the confusion surrounding 'what engine a map is for', the design would obviously make it clear. This version of TWHL was designed to not branch away from the previous version, so there's a lot of problems with the interface. I've done enough web design to know how to properly separate content (part of my real job is web designing), so there's no need to worry about that. Frankly, it's not exactly a reason not to pursue more engines.
02 Feb 11, 16:58
By Luke
avatar
Luke
Quote:
As for scope, theoretically, the site would still focus mainly on the creation of maps for any engine that provides a map editor of some sort. We wouldn't try to compete with a site like ModDB (which is mainly for mods), it would be more like the same style of site content, and so on.


Then it's settled. Map Vault it is.
02 Feb 11, 17:54
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Stu: I'm almost 100% sure that the only reason TWHL is still hosted right now is because atom hosts all his other websites on the same hosting plan. What we'd be doing is removing TWHL's bandwidth use on his servers. And we are able to put in a .htaccess redirect or something similar.
02 Feb 11, 18:53
By kdunivan
avatar
Member
But, meantime, if he hasn't paid for any of it then the whole kit and kaboodle could go down at any minute. Does anyone know if he has been cut off from the rest of the world with Egypt cutting 90% of their internet?

Anyone have a web route map of the world?

Quote:
There are other platforms of communication other than a forum y'know


I am fully aware that most people would be in the direct loop and would be advised if something major happened and the site went down for a month or two. Not everyone on the site has that direct communication though.

All I am saying is I would hate for the site to just blank out. It has been said already that this probably would not be the case.

@Penguinboy: Couldn't most or all of the content be simply moved without being recoded? Don't know much about PHP. All I know is that it creates the pages on the fly. Is there some sort of PHP Engine that you can't get to?I know you want to remake the site but you could move it temporarily until you get the newer code. Then you could take more time. And it would appease the people more if they made a slower transition to a newer site format. I remember the old site and it was a litle bit of a shock to move to TWHL2. I liked it once I was on for a couple of weeks. Whichever, just a suggestion.

WORLDCRAFTERS.COM is the best I can come up with. lol
02 Feb 11, 18:57
By AJ
avatar
Glorious Overlord
We can move it without changing it. Thing is though, it's a great chance for us to redesign it properly and rebuild it: I know PB is itching to do it. We can certainly move it to a new server in the interim and have a basic redirect setup.
02 Feb 11, 19:44
By kdunivan
avatar
Member
In the short term, it would save you alot of hassle, and like I said, give you more time to design it the way you want. And possibly give me time for needed input from the community itself.

I know we speak of the 40 but really there are far more people that stop in and possibly never come back. I really like the idea of opening up to other engines and possible other ways of thinking about things. This is all I have ever really pushed for on this site.

We all love Half Life 1 and it's ultimate ease of use. It will always be there and we should not turn our back on our benefactors. Without it, we wouldn't all be here having this discussion. Change is good though.

It will be sad to see the name changed...

What can you do? lol
02 Feb 11, 20:05
By hlife_hotdog
avatar
Forever
You know, I only just got back and couldn't be bummed reading what everyone wrote, but I would kinda be sad if it got changed. It would feel like when they change the name of a popular stadium to some commercial name, like Crazy John's Statium. I understand why though, but I would greatly miss the old domain (not to mention the mysterious free domain we got here, who would pay for the new hosting?)
02 Feb 11, 20:17
By AJ
avatar
Glorious Overlord
PB and I would be paying.
02 Feb 11, 20:37
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Maptown?

zeeba: i rather like "TheWholeGamer" =)
02 Feb 11, 20:40
By Striker
avatar
Member
Quote:
. It would feel like when they change the name of a popular stadium to some commercial name, like Crazy John's Statium


Agree with that. Changing the name to something like MapVault would be almost like changing Coca-Cola to "The black beverage".

Or McDonalds to Fatland.
02 Feb 11, 21:43
By saw1833
avatar
Member
I think the opposite of that. Our name kind of sucks really. The Whole Half-Life. Kay... so we have a whole... half-life. So this like changing "The Dark Brown Soft Drink (because Coke isn't black)" into Coca-Cola.

I think the first step that should be made is moving THIS TWHL to a new server, THEN designing it so that if we do lose hosting, we'll already be gone, leaving no confusion.
02 Feb 11, 22:18
By Striker
avatar
Member
Quote:
(because Coke isn't black)


And the water isn't blue...
If you understand me.
02 Feb 11, 22:47
By Soup Miner
avatar
Me, mad? Haha, quite likely.
Technically, no kind of matter is ANY color. Only light has color, which is reflected off of matter laughing - :lol:
03 Feb 11, 00:54
By Don Punch
avatar
Member
1 thing i have to add to this conversation is;

In my experience in hosting servers is, that when rumors or talks begin about changing the host, that it causes instability within your population.

I agree that not knowing the future of the hosting situation calls for action by those who have a vested interest in the site, but unless you already have the means and plans to start this new site, you should not be discussing it in an open forum like this.

A name is useless without the workload behind it to make it happen.

On another note, there are countless links on various places that would be broken. I know this was covered, but I find this to be a primary source for new members.

Also, with a current active population of 30-50, I wouldnt worry about that too much, I would work on building a new community using your current members are promoters.

Last I would like to add, that by spending about 5 mins on the web, I have 'Atoms' real name, address, email, and phone number. I don't think it would be impossible to contact him concerning such an important issue.

If one of the admins wants that info, just pm me, since I dont want to post his private info here.(if you cant find it yourself that is)

What ever happens, I will continue to support this and any new community who's focus is on the modding community.
03 Feb 11, 01:54
By AJ
avatar
Glorious Overlord
Don Punch: We have already been in contact with atom, as PB mentioned earlier in this thread. He has, for the last few months, not returned any of our emails. We did the exact same thing you did to get this information.

Links are easy to rebuild.

This thread was not to primarily come up with new names. It was to communicate future plans and for others to contribute to them.

Quote:
Also, with a current active population of 30-50, I wouldnt worry about that too much, I would work on building a new community using your current members are promoters.
That's the general idea, but it seems that a lot here are against an influx of newcomers.
03 Feb 11, 02:50
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
Given newcomers come with SOME prior knowledge of what they are doing, then yeah. If we launch and they come here looking for Unreal help and we don't have it, it might be difficult to keep new members for other engines. So anyone who knows anything about other engines besides gold/source will have to keep on their toes.

Quote:
Maptown?

More like Lazytown yuk yuk.
03 Feb 11, 03:50
By Luke
avatar
Luke
MapVault.net
03 Feb 11, 03:57
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
It might not be the rarest idea, but I wonder if you guys gave any thought to what Don said: Did you try using the phone? That he can't escape from tongue - :P
03 Feb 11, 04:59
By Crollo
avatar
Trollo
Unless it's his work number that he no longer works in, or his home phone and he doesn't answer\strangers, or it could just be a dead number period.

There's also little need to bother someone over the phone for such a thing, although desperate times I'm sure he would mind it interrupting his personal life.
03 Feb 11, 05:02
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
I'm going to back up all of the stuff I uploaded to the site since I don't exactly have all of it. :>
03 Feb 11, 05:08
By AJ
avatar
Glorious Overlord
Dunno about you guys, but I'm not exactly going to call South Africa from Australia.
03 Feb 11, 05:12
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
gimme his number i can do it.
i dont think i can either.
03 Feb 11, 06:27
By Don Punch
avatar
Member
Guys, this isnt 1982.

Long distance is like 10 cents a min. Give me your paypal. I'll send you a quater and you guys can sort out the details.

but all joking aside, someone should try a phone call. I'm sure it would all turn out nicely.
03 Feb 11, 07:29
By zeeba-G
avatar
3D
Change for the "better" is good. Its time to up grade. I still use the goldsource because compiles are fast but it can't handle most of my ideas... I got a buddy from school that uses udk I just met. Maybe he'll teach me a thing or two and I can intro. him to the good old quick and basic gold. Either way changing is fine. But have a plan "what engines it will incorporate according to current tech." and what it will expand to......

@captain, agreed; that was a good name.

Thewholegamer.com

I also liked compconstruct.com
03 Feb 11, 10:13
By kdunivan
avatar
Member
Quote:
That's the general idea, but it seems that a lot here are against an influx of newcomers.


Quote:
Given newcomers come with SOME prior knowledge of what they are doing, then yeah.


This is why I wouldn't support a site for 30-40 people. You might as well swap steam id's and have a big chat party everyday.

I thought we were supposed to be supporting...
03 Feb 11, 11:34
By Skals
avatar
Game / Level Designer
Stealing is bad, Mkay?
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