Check out Half-Life Re-imagined competition results!
Check out Skewing textures in Hammer, our newest tutorial!
Say hello to torekk, our newest member!

logo

Site Stuff

Reference

Maps

Community

ShoutBOX

Poll

Feeling Blue

What's your favourite shade of blue?

Azure

13

Cobalt

30

Turquoise

8

Cyan

10

Royal

6

Teal

3

Onliners

44 secs

Dimbeak

2 mins

Archie

2 mins

The Mad Carrot

3 mins

Suparsonik

17 mins

Shepard62700FR

20 mins

Spreen

41 mins

Jessie

Affiliates

A gaming and technology blog by TWHL admins Penguinboy and Ant. A music blog by TWHL users Ant and Hugh.

Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build

[1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... >>

Forums > General Discussion

27 Jul 13, 03:26
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
I'm very pleased to announce that Sledge, my open source alternative to Hammer 3.5, is now available as an alpha build! Download here. (Requires .NET 4.0, download here)

I've been working on this project on and off for about 5 years now - some of you might remember my journal about Thor, which I had to abandon due to an unstable code base. I started work on Sledge about 2 years ago, and it only contains very small portions of the original Thor code.

The current Sledge release is an alpha release, which means that there are still some key features that need to be added and the features that are there may be unstable at times. However I think that right now it's at a point where people can start trying it out to see what they think (and hopefully report some bugs! smile - :) ).

Alpha means stuff is missing. The important missing things are:
* Support for opening multiple maps at once
* Advanced compile options (I recommend you use a batch compiler for now, current compiling support is very primitive)
* Rendering models
* Autosaving
* Prefabs
* Cameras
* Automatic detection of game configurations (for now, configure it manually like Hammer 3.5)
* Transparent tool brush rendering (think trigger brushes in Hammer 4)

Once the missing features are added, then I will start on Source support for version 2. Right now, it only works with Goldsource.

A few screenshots:





I'd love to hear your thoughts on the program and if you do try it out, please submit bug reports! When you find a bug (there are plenty), let me know by posting it here, or if you have a GitHub account, you can register an issue on the Sledge repository. And if you get the error reporting window, please click the submit button so I can see those bugs as well smile - :)

That download link again is: sledge-editor.com.
27 Jul 13, 03:45
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
Crashes on startup... don't know why. It might be my antivirus.
27 Jul 13, 04:52
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
=PPPPPP HOLYSHIT HOLYSHIT HOLYSHIT!!! =PPPPP
27 Jul 13, 04:59
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Rim: How far does it get before it crashes? Do you get any sort of crash information after the crash or in your Windows event log? Can you try running it as admin to see if that's the cause?
27 Jul 13, 05:14
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Crash for me too, error report sent. should i reinstall .net 4? (when i went to install it, it asked if i wanted to remove/repair the current install, so i thought it was good.

OOPS error occurs immediatley at startup. Thereafter, it shows the visgroup/texture bars on the right, but nothing else is showing up.

Edit
"Run as Adminstrator" fixes it, i'm up and running! =)
27 Jul 13, 05:15
By Jessie
avatar
Ladytype
So what kind of features are we looking at with this one that Hammer cannot do?

Other than the open source bit.
27 Jul 13, 05:30
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
The whole screen "burps" when you Ctrl+S, i kinda like that =P
27 Jul 13, 05:35
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Ok, looks like running as administrator is the work-around for now. I will work on trying to get it to prompt for the proper credentials so it works nice with UAC.

@Scotch: Well, right now, only a few things like:
- Multiple visgroups and automatic visgroups (from Hammer 4)
- 3D clipping (instead of just drawing a line in 2D)
- Better decimal point / floating point handling (think HLFix or the various hammer patches for this)
- Native support for big maps (use the source min/max commands in your FGD)
- Renders textured decals in the 3D view
- Various UI improvements in places

You can see the features that need to be added before it's out of alpha, some of these are not in Hammer 3:
- Good compile support (full batch compiler UI)
- Autosaves
- Works nice with Steam
- Automatic configuration (looks in the registry and Steam for game configs)
- Transparent rendering of tool brushes (trigger, clip, etc)

Once out of alpha I'm looking at adding the following:
- Native displacements that compile down to brushwork (say goodbye to triangle terrain)
- Native instances that compile down to brushwork (for those unfamiliar, think prefabs that reference an external map. Update the map, and all instances are updated)
- Plugin support (e.g. built in Twister, add your own features)
- Collaborative mapping over network/Internet
- Built-in support for version control like SVN/Git/etc and maybe synchronisation of files using dropbox/etc
- Tools for creation of models, textures, etc without needing to leave the editor

Those are just some ideas, there are plenty more possibilities. Goldsource (and eventually Source) will always be first-class citizens, I wont ditch improvements for Goldsource once Source support is added.
27 Jul 13, 05:49
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Quote:
- Better decimal point / floating point handling (think HLFix or the various hammer patches for this)
Yes.

Patiently awaiting a slick favicon! Feature right away i noticed that were missing, just in case you didn't know:

- the ignore,hide, hotkeys
- spacebar grabbing the 2d views
- shift+z to maximize current window
27 Jul 13, 07:01
By Stojke
avatar
= O P L - 3 =
Me likey ._.

So far so good. A few errors popped out on the settings tabs, but nothing that crashed the program.
As Captain T said, space + click movement is missing. That is a really good feature.
Also, zoom out limit, i can zoom out off to another dimension. As well as zoom in.

Also, i know its a bit far off, but i would love an .T3D import converter tongue - :P
(Unreal Tournament 99 - For smaller objects of course, Meshes and Geometry)

[Edit]

Once an object is out of the 2D screen view it can not be selected.
2D screen does not move when you try to stretch the brush you're creating. You need to unzoom first.
Delete button doesn't do anything lol.

Im on Windows 7 64b
27 Jul 13, 10:26
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Thanks guys, I wasn't aware of the space movement in the 2D views. I'll work on that plus the missing hotkeys and the errors in the next update smile - :)

Stojke: Extra file formats are very possible. The code is very flexible in that area smile - :)
For the delete key not working: I've gotten that before, the hotkeys seem to stop working sometimes. Close and re-open the map, that usually fixes it.

CapT: Due to my incompetence in the graphics department, Strider is making some nice icons for me. He's the one who made the fancy tool icons on the left. Hopefully he will make me a nice desktop icon too smile - :)
27 Jul 13, 10:39
By The Mad Carrot
avatar
...Emptyness...
Damn guy, you're good with C#. How do you know all this stuff, specifically all the 3D stuff?

If you're so good, you shouldn't have much trouble designing your own built-in compiler and have that replace Compilator 3, because, and let me be honest with you, the current version of C3 isn't that optimized and contains messy code here and there.

One suggested to implement C3 in Sledge, but I don't know if that's a good idea. Maybe later. I'm planning to rebuild C3 in C# this time, as I've been using VB.Net up until now.
27 Jul 13, 10:52
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Atom: Thanks. All my 3D knowledge is self taught, but most of the stuff I learned the hard way through trial and error and a lot of Googling tongue - :P

Is it possible that you could release your C# version of Compilator under a GPL compatible license when you get around to doing it? I think that I could merge it into Sledge's code base, it would save me a lot of work smile - :) Regardless of what you plan on doing, hit me up if you have any questions about C# or Sledge's programming. I would love if you wanted to contribute to the Sledge code base! smile - :)

If you're interested maybe we could integrate all or part of The Compilator into the Sledge repo and offer it as part of the package? Only if you're interested of course, I will get around to implementing that kind of thing myself otherwise. I'm focusing on other stuff atm because good compilation programs like The Compilator already exist smile - :)
27 Jul 13, 11:04
By The Mad Carrot
avatar
...Emptyness...
Quote:
Is it possible that you could release your C# version of Compilator under a GPL compatible license when you get around to doing it?


I still don't really want to make my code public-ally available, but I'm willing to share my code (entire project directory at that) with you so you can see how to implement it in Sledge. At least I get some bragging right. (I designed the Sledge compiler!)

I've been saying this for a long time, but I really want to release my current built (Compilator 3 Version 3.0.0.00, Beta 1.0) to the public even though the application isn't perfect. I guess that's why there are beta's, eh? While people are toying with it, I want to move on the Compilator 4 (working title?) and move to C#.
27 Jul 13, 11:05
By Stojke
avatar
= O P L - 3 =
Its very interesting to hear that C# is a great platform for windows programming.
I am learning it at my College and am experimenting at home as well.

I suggested to implement C3 into sledge, it would be really nice to have all that ease of use in such a program.
27 Jul 13, 11:33
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
I can't recall if I have .NET 4.0 installed, or it's 3.0, but either way I'm going to try it out. If it doesn't run I'll assume it's because I don't have 4.0. If it runs and crashes, I'll be sure to report.
27 Jul 13, 11:36
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Atom, that's cool but if you do want to release it publicly but Sledge is using a GPL license so if you do provide me any code I will only be able to use it in Sledge if you give it a compatible license smile - :)

@Stojke: C# is good for Windows stuff, and with Mono I hear it works pretty well for Linux/Mac as well. I haven't tried Mono yet but ideally in the future Sledge might work with it. I wonder how platform-independent the compile tools are, would be neat to do GS mapping on a Unix platform smile - :)
27 Jul 13, 11:49
By Archie
avatar
My Empire of Dirt
Thrilled to bits that this has made it to alpha! I'ma repost a PM I sent you years ago, though, because I still think it'd be a great addition!

Quote:
Mocked this up quickly to demonstrate a couple of ideas I had for the face editor.
Firstly a random shift function which works with the "treat as one" tickybox. It would allow you to quickly randomize, for example, a set of stairs so that they don't so obviously tile on the X plane.

Secondly, something gtkRadient has which always amazed me wasn't implemented in Hammer 4 - a tiling fit option so that you can fit, say, 4 tiles of a texture to a face rather than just stretching it to 1, untiled fit. This is extremely useful.

27 Jul 13, 12:10
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Whoa that is so cool Archie!
27 Jul 13, 16:45
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Thanks for reposting that Archie, I hadn't forgotten about it but this is a good reminder and I'll post it to the GitHub issues list as a feature request. The question is, where to put it on the Sledge texture dialog? I might need to add some tabs...

Edit: Requests added!
https://github.com/LogicAndTrick/sledge/iss
ues/8

https://github.com/LogicAndTrick/sledge/iss
ues/9


Edit 2.0: Been working on fixes, but now it's time for bed. I'll put an update out tomorrow that should stop those errors in the settings window, plus add spacebar+drag movement and drag-scrolling into the 2D window.

@Stojke: Could you please clarify this bug? I'm not sure what it means: "Once an object is out of the 2D screen view it can not be selected."
27 Jul 13, 21:28
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
NEAT. Got to try it out.
28 Jul 13, 01:54
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Hey all, I've fixed most of the bugs and missing features that you guys have reported. Just start the app and it should ask you to do an update. If the updater screws up just download the installer from the website and reinstall. Let me know how you go! smile - :)

Change list:
* Space+mouse drag movement in 2D views
* Drag-scrolling in 2D views
* Fixed some errors in the settings form when there are no builds set up. Fixes #4, fixes #5
* Set parent properly when creating a brush group. Fixes #15.
* Torus tool was generating invalid solids. Fixes #7.
* Only clip valid solids. Fixes #6.
* Include manifest file to request admin access on start. Fixes #3.
* Wire up steam game directory browse button in settings form
* Added more hotkeys
28 Jul 13, 02:30
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Yoohoo! Gonna update and play around with it s'more now =)
28 Jul 13, 02:56
By kraken
avatar
Member
This is so cool! Here are my first initial thoughts.

How do I move the 3D camera (Shift + C) in hammer?

After dragging out a brush, do I have to click enter? That is slightly annoying.

In the corner of the view ports it'd be nice to see top, front, side etc.
28 Jul 13, 03:45
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Quote:
If the updater screws up just download the installer

Any chance that there will be a binaries only download?
28 Jul 13, 03:50
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Thanks Kraken. To move the 3D camera, hit Z to go into freelook mode and use WASD. I'll probably add in the other camera controls in the 3D views soon (left click = look, right click = move around, etc) so people who use those controls instead of free look can use controls they are comfortable with.

You do have to press enter to create a brush and select objects with a box, that's the same as Hammer's default settings. I know Hammer has an option to automatically select as soon as you draw the box, but I don't know if it works for brush creation as well. I will investigate how that setting works and see how I can implement it in Sledge smile - :)

Labels in the corners can be done, however I will add them later as rendering text is a whole big problem that I have managed to avoid so far tongue - :P

As I get suggestions and bugs I'm adding them all into the GitHub issues register so I can keep track of them. Keep the bug/missing feature reports and feature suggestions coming everyone! I have just finished implementing autosave for the next release, so look forward to that coming soon smile - :)

Stu: Yes. Every release also has a standalone zip for those who don't want an installer. Download the latest version from the GitHub release page.
28 Jul 13, 07:51
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Great! I tend to prefer things that don't require an installation program. I'm sure you're a safe source, but I've grown to dislike them lately.
28 Jul 13, 17:42
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
Yeah my crash was like Cap'n Terror's. Need to check it out later.

I could suggest a bunch more tools that would be fundamentally helpful but I haven't seen it yet so I'll wait to write stuff about it.

EDIT:

ok...

Grid doesn't show up on mine, then again, I have Radeon graphics.

Using the VM tool, you can't select a brush by clicking it in any of the view ports. First thing I noticed.

There is no auto-enter for selection, you have to draw your selection and hit enter to select. Hammer had the option to automate is a little. I use it a lot though its preferential.

I have no idea how to load textures.

Suggestions: Nothing major, but if you're going to have a fine level of decimal coords for brushwork, a weld, target weld, or vert-collapse to single point would be useful in unifying geometry and all that.
28 Jul 13, 23:12
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Getting a crash when I select New Map... :/

I submitted the error but I still can't use it.

[edit] Wait, it's not a crash. It only doesn't make a new map. I'm stuck.
29 Jul 13, 00:33
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Stu: Looks like your graphics card might not support OpenGL 3.3, what GPU are you using? Are you on a laptop? I might be able to downgrade the shader version with a few changes, I will need to investigate. The easiest fix is if it is possible for you to update your drivers to a version that supports OpenGL 3.3 which has been supported in drivers since about 2010.

Rim: Did you check that 'show 2D grid' was turned on? I don't have a Radeon graphics card to test, does anybody else with an ATI card have a missing grid?

To set up textures, open the game configuration, click the 'textures' tab, and add your WADs there. All the other missing features have been noted smile - :)
29 Jul 13, 02:08
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Oh i thought textures had not been implemented yet, because i can't get them to work(i set up the wads and whatnot)! So, I'll give it another shot smile - :)

bugs
- Shift+a texture properties hotkey
- Shit+s select hotkey
- Shift+x clip hotkey
- Shift+v VM hotkey
- tool name popup when you mouseover
- ctrl+w ignore groups hotkey missing(i think i sent you that already)
- uac prompt everytime i open still; should i reinstall as administrator?

edit
Got the textures working! i didn't realize you had to set the textures for each profile(i have won and steam), which actually a big improvement over the way hammer does it wink-wink - ;)

Also, i like the new materials browser, well done! =)
29 Jul 13, 02:09
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Yeah, the settings are a bit more refined than Hammer 3 - textures are set up at the game level rather than globally.

For the UAC stuff - I can move the settings into the AppConfig folder instead of keeping it in program files, this should allow me to turn off the prompt.
29 Jul 13, 03:03
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
I'm on a laptop indeed and it's less than a year old. It has an Intel HD Graphics 3000 graphics chip, whatever that is. It runs most games pretty well.
29 Jul 13, 04:15
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Weird error selecting/ungrouping the Skybox brushes from This Map. i can't seem to select it from the 3dview, even with the ignore groups button checked. (converting it to vmf makes it behave normally, and/or i can select and ungroup it from the 2d view)

Also btw, do you plan to add the center selection handles? I miss them, but i must admit like the reduced visual clutter =)

Also too, i love that the texture properties shows you multiple faces if you've selected an object with multiple textures, neat!
29 Jul 13, 04:20
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Stu: That would explain it, Intel doesn't like updating graphics drivers. I've been able to port my shaders down to OpenGL 3.0 (from version 3.3) which reportedly works on your GPU. I'll release an update in the next few hours, so check back soon smile - :)

CapT: I've been undecided about the handles for a long time. On complex maps, they really do add a lot of clutter and make it hard to see anything. I'm not sure what to do about them. Interesting issue with that rocket map, I will see if I can locate the cause.
29 Jul 13, 04:42
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
No hurries, I'm not actually making any maps right now. I'm looking forward to, though.

Aren't the handles optional in Hammer? You could have the option of turning them on or off.

I think that it's also optional to be allowed to select brushes by their edges instead of their centre handles only.
29 Jul 13, 05:29
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
I don't think handles are optional in Hammer, but they would be if I added them in. But I want to find a way to do the handles better, so even when they're turned on they don't clutter up the 2D view so much. And yeah, selecting stuff by the handles or edges will have settings as well.

@CapT: I found the issue in that map, it's because the skybox is hidden with a visgroup. I'm not hiding visgrouped objects properly on load, so I need to fix that.

Edit: New release! Just start the program to do the auto-update or download it manually and do it that way.

Change list:
* The updater prompts for UAC (as it needs to overwrite application files)
* Implemented autosaving
* Add "toggle ignore grouping" hotkey. Fixes #20.
* Check that a solid entity exists before tying to entity. Fixes #24.
* Switch to GLSL 130 (OpenGL 3.0) in an attempt to support older hardware
* Fix concurrency error where NULLs were sneaking into the selection
* Fixed the settings to use AppData so it doesn't need the UAC prompt
* Added tooltip text when hovering over tool buttons
* Added hotkeys to switch between tools. Fixes #28.
* Added arrow key nudging, and some icons updated. Fixes #21.
* RMF implementation was generating invalid files. Fixes #31.
* VMF was saving the Auto visgroup to the disk. Fixes #33.
* Hide children if their parents are visgroup hidden. Fixes #30.
* Update to 0.1.0.5 - fixes #27.
29 Jul 13, 09:20
By Instant Mix
avatar
Horton hears a who?
What about instances? If you've got this far, I'm sure implementing instances shouldn't be that hard.
30 Jul 13, 03:43
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
If you look up to my second post in this thread, you can see a rough roadmap of features I want to include. Instances is on the list smile - :)

Edit: New release! I added a bunch of options that were missing, including the options for the center handles and automatic selection. Looking forward to hearing people's thoughts! As usual, start the program to auto-update or download it manually from the website if you want.

Change list (0.1.0.6):
* Added 3D camera FOV option
* Grid settings update immediately (doesn't require restart)
* Add option for auto select when selection box is drawn. Fixes #17
* Added option to keep visgroups when cloning objects
* Implemented option for back clipping plane
* Fixed some snapping issues with the selection boxes
* Implemented selection by center handles. Fixes #23
* Added options to switch to select tool after brush and entity creation
* Added options to automatically select created brushes and entities
* Added option to deselect other objects when automatically selecting the created object
* Added option to reset to block brush type after creating a brush. Fixes #11
30 Jul 13, 04:58
By Tetsu0
avatar
Tet Soo Oh
Omg why have i not seen this yet!? This is my number one to-do tomorrow!
30 Jul 13, 05:28
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Nope, still crashing on File > New.

Suggestions:
- Make the Options window start at the centre of the screen (it's just a flag in VS). It ends up out of the screen if you're on a low resolution.
- Add scrollbar to "Full error message" in crash window, I want to read it even if I don't understand it (and it's technically not a "full" error message if only the first 4 lines of it are shown tongue - :P )
30 Jul 13, 06:17
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Oops, there was a bug in 0.1.0.6 that was crashing on quite a few things, update to 0.1.0.7 which I have just released to fix it. Not sure if it will fix your issue Stu, but the error reports appear to be different than before, so that's a good start tongue - :P

I'm getting a bunch of errors that appear to be caused by an invalid WAD file, if anybody gets a crash message that says "Unable to get image dimensions" can you contact me so we can nail down the cause? Thanks! (Edit: never mind, the last error message specified the WAD file name, all good!)

@Stu: No worries on the options window, will do. For the crash window, just expand the window to see more of the error. I'll add a scroll bar as well, though.
30 Jul 13, 08:45
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
It's resizable?? Didn't even notice that! I'll check it out in the morning.
30 Jul 13, 09:34
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Gonna play with this a little before work. If there are any specific features you'd like me to test, just say so; i want goldsource support finished asap you can start on the Sledge for Source =)
30 Jul 13, 09:35
By Instant Mix
avatar
Horton hears a who?
I've done you a favour Penguin and mentioned on Facepunch. I know you guys think it's a cesspit of filth (which it is) but some of the mappers there are pretty talented people. It's gathering quite a lot of interest there.
30 Jul 13, 09:52
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
^^ and edit block wink-wink - ;)

Question/Idea
Can you set up Sledge to canabalize/borrow config settings and preferances from an existing hammer setup(if there is one), to make the setup basically automatic?

Or would that be considered cheating? =P

Plugin idea
A screen shot utility(i know someone here coded one already, but i can't remember who), for quicker easier in-dev shots. In fact, maybe you could do something like Archie did with the preset cameras, for those sweet time lapses he did for The Core?
30 Jul 13, 10:26
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Thanks Instant, could you post a link to the thread so I can keep track of any bug reports?

@CapT: Yep, I plan to have it scan for existing Hammer installs as well as look for any installed games and automatically pre-configure them smile - :)
The screenshot thing is a neat idea, make a note of it because it's still a long way away from having plugin support tongue - :P
30 Jul 13, 10:38
By Instant Mix
avatar
Horton hears a who?
It's only in the pimpage ( AKA Post your screenshots, what are you working on) thread
30 Jul 13, 12:19
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Thanks, I'll keep track of it just in case anybody on there has some feedback.
31 Jul 13, 08:54
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
I got through to the new map, at last. Love the clip tool on steroids. But there is something that, just like in hammer, I don't quite get. Using the mouse scroll wheel to zoom in/out zooms in/out by strange amounts. It's not just 1.0/1.25/1.5/2.0 or 1.0/0.75/0.5/0.25/0.1, instead the progression is 1.0/1.20/1.44/1.73/2.07 and 1.00/0.83/0.69/0.58/0.48 and so on. What is the logic behind this progression? Because I can't make any sense out of it.

Like Rim, I can't see the grid. I double checked it was turned on in the Map menu, but it's still not there. Neither 2D grid nor 3D grid.

Seems I can't see the Cordon either.

Visual detail: Selection handles aren't always an X. Sometimes they seem to be a pixel or two short, the asymmetry really hurts my OCD.
[1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... >>

Forums > General Discussion

Login to Reply

You must be logged in to reply.