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Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build

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Forums > General Discussion

11 Aug 13, 12:43
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
I don't have a logo yet, but I have some top people working on it right now. Well, just one person, and I use "working" very loosely. tongue - :P

I like your logo concepts! I'll show them to Strider (he's doing my other icons) and see what he thinks of them smile - :)

The UI is standard Windows Forms, changing it now would be a lot of work for not much gain. I don't have any plans to change up the colour scheme of the UI, however in the far, far future there might be some form of customisation in that area. I'm going for functionality over form, however, so new features are more important to me than making it look different. I wouldn't be upset if somebody else decided to add skinning support into the code, though tongue - :P
11 Aug 13, 20:30
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
It always bothered me that you can change the GUI colours in the Adobe suite. It serves no purpose other than making it look non-standard and clash with the OS standard.

I'd much rather see work put into actually useful improvements.
12 Aug 13, 04:31
By Archie
avatar
My Empire of Dirt
Quote:
It serves no purpose other than making it look non-standard and clash with the OS standard.


Are you kidding? Video and photo manipulation is far better with a dark background. That sort of work where you're staring at minute details for 8 hours a day is such an eye strain with bright UIs. It was one of the most requested features amongst the After Effects community.
12 Aug 13, 07:02
By DiscoStu
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Member
I never noticed that, really. You win.
14 Aug 13, 01:46
By Penguinboy
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Haha, I died again!
New version! This update adds support for multiple files with a tabbed interface. I'm really happy how this turned out, it feels very nice to use smile - :)

Adding tabs is a pretty big change so it might have introduced some bugs, please try it out and let me know how it goes!

The tabs look like this:

And some new settings to go with it:


Change list for 0.1.0.12:
* Added support for multiple files open at once
* Fixed an issue in the FGD parser that was causing some FGDs to throw errors
14 Aug 13, 11:01
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Question: What's the second check box for? Doesn't it use the cameras you set in the map file?

While I'm at it, what does the third one do? What is is that you call the "viewport splitter"? Do you mean the dimensions of the four individual views?
14 Aug 13, 13:32
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Yeah, it's a bit hard to make those one-liner settings. Basically, for each map that is open, the following information will be saved:
- Camera positions and zoom levels (as in, what the 2D and 3D views are pointing at)
- Currently selected tool
- The sizes of each viewport in the 2x2 grid view
When you switch between open files, it will restore the saved information for the selected map.

Each option disables the saving of one of these. E.g. if you don't want the viewport sizes to change when you switch tabs, you would tick the 'Keep viewport splitter position' option.

I couldn't really think of a better way of naming those settings without making them way too long :/
15 Aug 13, 13:53
By Xylem
avatar
Member
Just wanted to say that this program is simply amazing. It has made GoldSrc map creation easier and faster for Bloodbath! I eagerly await each update, keep up the great work!

Edit: Holy bug report Batman! I just checked for errors, and after clicking on "Group has no children" it sent me a never ending line error report requests. Guess it really wanted me to report the issue...
15 Aug 13, 14:36
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Thanks Xylem, I know progress is slow but I am getting the missing features added one by one. I would love to see any in-editor screenshots of what you're creating!

I know about the empty group issue, it's in the list to be fixed. Sorry about the infinite errors -_-
15 Aug 13, 16:42
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Hey Penguinboy!

I've just tested out Sledge, but I get an error as soon as I click:
"File -> New -> GoldSource -> Half-Life."

No crash! Only error, then it get me back to the main window.
Since I don't have internet on my other pc where I use Hammer (I'm actually with an USB connection on a EeePC netbook), I wasn't able to send you the bug report, so I'm gonna send you here. I've got a GIF for you, with the error report and my configuration, so you can see if I made something wrong:



I've got some suggestions for you if no one has already mentioned one of these:

- When load a map in progress, it would be good to maintain the 3D view position where it was the last time, and not everytime at the center of the map;
- If it's possible, adding to the 3D view the "3D Shaded Textured" render like in VHE 4. So we can have a better preview for the textures we've chosen;
- If it's possible, adding the possibility to turn the entities with the selection tools by clicking them 2 times on it (when the circles on the angles comes out), instead of open up the object properties tab and modify the Pitch value;
- Adding rendered models directly in Sledge so we better know where we are placing them with all the entities used to place models (all the "monster_" entities, cycler, cycler_sprite, etc...). As you know, some models have the selection box screwed up and we have to do a lot of compiles to place them properly in the right position. And also to place CLIPs around them to create the best possible (realistic) collisions.
- And, if possible: adding the possibility to change the compilator? grin - :D
For instance: if we have the Atom's Compilator, if we are able to choose it when we click to "Run map" as an option.

These are just suggestions, I don't know anything about programming (or at least not in this way), I'm just giving you some ideas if you are able (or if it's possible) to implement them in the program.

That's it for now! I'm gonna try it out as soon as I can, if the problem is solvable of course. smile - :)

EDIT: I forgot to tell you my pc specs because I think it's a OpenGL problem, so:

OS Windows XP Professional SP2
AMD Sempron 2500+ @ 1.75 GHz single core processor;
1 GB RAM @ 400 MHz (512x2);
ATI Radeon 9250 @ 256 MB AGP 8x

I use Steam Half-Life with maximum graphic settings at 1280x1024 resolution in OpenGL renderer and I can get 150/200 FPS on almost all maps (except the detailed ones which I can get 60/90 FPS).
Yeah, I know it's a very old and shit pc (I told you! xD), but this is what I can have for now... unhappy - :( I don't blame you if you won't make changes to Sledge to make it be able to run on such an old pc. So, don't worry. My fault! tongue - :P
15 Aug 13, 18:14
By Daubster
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Vault Dweller
Downloaded & had a brief play with it, looks awesome. Congrats on reaching alpha!
15 Aug 13, 23:54
By Penguinboy
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Haha, I died again!
@Alberto: Looks like you've come across one of Sledge's requirements: a graphics card that supports OpenGL 3.0. It should be possible to add a compatibility mode for older versions of OpenGL, but it will be pretty slow if I manage to do it! I will investigate more and let you know how it goes.

For now the minimum GPU requirements are:
- Nvidia: GeForce 8000 or better
- Ati: Radeon HD 2000 or better
- Intel: HD Graphics 2000 or better
These are OpenGL 3/DirectX 10 cards however it's possible that Sledge will also work on OpenGL 2, depending on the drivers. But your video card only supports OpenGL 1.3/DirectX 8 which is really old! Not as old as Half-Life though, so it makes sense that it runs that tongue - :P

I might have to ask you to test out some builds to see if it works on your hardware. If anyone else has older hardware that doesn't run Sledge (but does run HL in OpenGL mode), let me know and I'll try as hard as I can to get Sledge working on it!

Other than that, you've mentioned a lot of things that are on my to-do list before I can remove the "alpha" status from Sledge:
- Save 3D view positions -> support for cameras, it's on the list
- Turn the entities when rotating -> nice catch, I think Hammer does this so Sledge should do it as well.
- Show models in 3D view -> model support is on the list
- Better compiling -> definitely on the list! Maybe not a built-in compilator because Atom doesn't want to open source the app, but definitely something like it will be there.

Thanks Alberto and Daubster for the feedback!
16 Aug 13, 04:29
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
I still have my old computer sitting on my desk. It's a P4 + GeForce 6200/256MB. Its motherboard is old enough not to support SATA2, but it runs Half Life in OpenGL mode just fine (HL DirectX mode sucks badly however, and I never quite understood why)
16 Aug 13, 05:04
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
That reminds me, I still have a few old PC parts lying around. I don't think I still have my old Nvidia 6600GT any more, or the even older ones from previous upgrades. Even if I had them, I don't think I would have the hardware to get one up and running tongue - :P

Looks like my old netbook has a mobile Intel GPU that only supports OpenGL 1.4, I might be able to test it on that.

@Alberto and Stu: would either of you be willing to help me test some pre-release builds on your older hardware if I manage to get Sledge running on OpenGL 1?
16 Aug 13, 05:21
By DiscoStu
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Member
I'll do what I can!
16 Aug 13, 14:56
By Rimrook
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Guru
I have been thinking a lot about this and how it could have a large constructive edge over hammer.

The ability to place an image in the view port to reference. That would be a significant start. That way people with paper designs can trace out their maps quickly.
16 Aug 13, 15:25
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
I've got that in my list as a feature request, how would you imagine it working? I'm thinking that you probably want the image to move and zoom with the viewport, so maybe a special brush texture that renders in the 2D views?

Example: You make the block, import the texture images from your PC and apply them to the top/side/front sides of the block (or something does this automatically, whatever). After that, you can reposition it and move it around just like normal geometry, but it gets ignored if you compile the map. The special property this block would have is that it draws the texture in the 2D views, underneath the grid. And maybe it doesn't appear in the 3D view at all. Would something like that work?
16 Aug 13, 17:06
By The Mad Carrot
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How about an assets browser to view game models, sounds and sprites as well as any custom assets that we have in the models, sound and sprites folders under the game/mod folder?
16 Aug 13, 17:09
By Tetsu0
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Tet Soo Oh
And you can select them and import them!
16 Aug 13, 17:24
By Alberto309
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GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Penguinboy:


Hey! You're welcome. smile - :) I'm glad I can help. smile - :)
Sure it would've been better to have helped you in something related to the internal program's functions, of course! xD But since I got a toy-pc I can't even run the program lol. Btw, those Sys req are pretty high imho. :O I actually had an Asus EN 8800 GTS with an AMD Athlon X2 6000+ and 2 GB RAM OCZ Reaper at 1066 MHz. But I don't have a Motherboard that supports it unfortunately... :

But, What OpenGL version VHE 3.5 has? :O

Have you considered to add a "Video Options" tab where you can change those options? Like the OpenGL renderer or even Anti-aliasing, filters in general, models render (on/off), and maybe a 3D view fullscreen mode by pressing a key (like Alt+Enter on DOSBox)? :O For YouTube previews ans such things. smile - :)
17 Aug 13, 22:38
By Xylem
avatar
Member
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1ur-tndF9i
DeHJLWUpCTEN5NTg/edit?usp=sharing


Well here is a screen of me editing our latest addition to the HD Map Pack we released a while back. Everything working great!

Now here are some bugs I've encountered:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1ur-tndF9i
DZm81RHRPNzBQbFE/edit?usp=sharing


1) Sprites don't seem to load initially? Eventually they show up, but am I the only one getting this?

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1ur-tndF9i
DSG52dG9iOVlRZ1k/edit?usp=sharing


2) As a laptop user, I went into sleep mode several times and left Sledge open for hours. Eventually when I began editing again, all the transparent developer textures became black and I couldn't tell them apart.

3) I can't type in the letter "u" for entity names.

I apologize if any of these have already been reported.

Along with that I was wondering if there any plans for previewing sounds and if it was possible for entities with different render mode properties to show up in the editor's 3D mode as well?
18 Aug 13, 11:20
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Need to open this up and drink in the improvements! Also, dem tabs! =)

Bugs, Notes, and Nitpickery
--The new VM and real-time error list is VERY interesting! (it's going to take me some time to explore these new options!)
-- move up/down feature missing from visgroups.(very cool btw that it preserves visgroup names from csgo vmf, and i can edit brushwork between engines, awesome sir!)
-- transparent aaatrigger WOOT! =)
-- find/replace texture is still buggered if the texture doesn't exist(not in a wad)
-- i would like to see the intro dialog window where you choose the game/mod centered, as disco stu previously requested.
-- hitting shift+x still does not toggle through which half or both you want to keep while clipping.
-- Clip tool is allowing you to clip in all three dimensions in a 2d window, by allowing you to drag a third point from the clip line(i find this insanely awesome, even if it is a bug wink-wink - ;) )
-- "reset to original" button on new vm very good idea
-- i love the poking and beveling but i need a user-guide or tutorial maybe tongue - :P
-- maybe add an unpoke/unbevel button as well, though i shouldn't make suggestions for this until i've played with it more...
- double-clicking an object for entity properties not working(not a big dea), thought you had this enabled, or it's an option maybe?
- Tool Hide Unselected not working(hides everything not just unselected)
-- when i try to tie a solid to an entity, it says "no eligble solid found and my fgd is buggered" (sorry if this has been previoulsy reported)
-- when dealing with a group of objects forming a brush-based entity, WITH ignore checked, deleting any section of the object will delete the whole thing(selecting in the 2d view only, so i think it's a 2d selection issue).
-- With select by handles ON, drawing a selection box should select all objects where the handles are inside, currently it does not, and you have to individually select each handle.(sorted in options!)
-- awesome that recent files work, PLUS i like the option to remember opened files, especially on an ongoing map, great!
-- remove visgroup under edit doesn't remove it for me.
-- complex objects still behave weirdly when i try to clip them--objects i can clip fine in 3.5 or source sdk--, i.e., sledge doesn't allow the whole thing to be cut, just parts.
-- no crashes or bug reports editing an hour straight! =)
-- The primitive preview selection mask is pwn.
-- Patiently awaiting an icon.

(if you'd prefer these bug reports/notes pm'd, let it know!)

Awesome stuff PB, well done so far sir! smile - :)
---

Xylem: love the WIP shots sir! =P
18 Aug 13, 11:27
By ninja defuse
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Member
I think that "Switch to selection tool after brush creation" should selected from the beginning
18 Aug 13, 13:00
By Xylem
avatar
Member
Just an update, I think I pin pointed the source of bug #2 in my previous post. I ran into the issue again after closing out another tabbed map.

Also thanks Captain Terror! Most of the work in those shots really is by Rafael from our team. I did more background work in those maps, functionality and such.
18 Aug 13, 13:01
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
On that note, can we also get an option to reset to block after inserting a cylinder/arch/wedge/etc? I usually just want the one complex solid at any given time, but I also usually forget to put it back to block when I start making the next brush.
18 Aug 13, 13:25
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
@Jeff: That option is already there smile - :)
@CapT: Your plane screenshot made me laugh tongue - :P
@Xylem: Thanks for sharing the screenshots, looks good!
@Alberto: I think Hammer uses OpenGL 1.0. It might support other renderers too for really old hardware, I'm not sure. I'm actually pretty sure that in Hammer 3, all the 2D views are drawn in Windows, and OpenGL is only used for 3D mode. That's why the 2D views in Hammer are so slow when you zoom out in a complex map (no hardware acceleration).

Thanks for the bug reports and comments everyone, I'll add the bugs into the list to be fixed! I have a lot of work to do and I'm also busy with other stuff, so please be patient -_-

Recently I've been working on trying to get an old OpenGL renderer working so people on older hardware like Alberto can use it smile - :) Right now I have an OpenGL 1 renderer that seems to work, I haven't fully tested it yet and it's not tested on OpenGL 1 hardware yet. It's slow though, not much I can do about that because I don't know enough about graphics programming to fix it unhappy - :(
18 Aug 13, 13:50
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Penguinboy:


Thanks a lot Penguinboy! grin - :D

Quote:
@Captain Terror / @Penguinboy:


What about that? :3




If you want to momentary use it, in waiting for the official one, download it here from Mega(the images above are resized and not ".ico" files):

sledge_icon.rar (7 KB
Decryption key: bL6FCA0RtY8AyG5PIRZR8CoRAYEpdo3uFAvxzCJQ72c

https://mega.co.nz/#!444ilbBY

Teh Hammre! - :hammer: grin - :D Teh Hammre! - :hammer:
18 Aug 13, 13:53
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
Haha Alberto well done! =P
18 Aug 13, 14:01
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Captain Terror:


You like it? grin - :D Changed some colours of course, to make it more "VHE-like". tongue - :P
But I though it's good so I decided to upload it for you guys if you like it. :3

Copyright Captain Terror. All rights reserved. xD
18 Aug 13, 14:06
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
i love it, wish i had your painting skills =P

Can you do some varaitions? like perhaps try changing the dark green bits to a nice bright blue, and try the hammer to orange/gold/brown/etc, something that will stand out from the background maybe?

anyhoo again, well done sir =P
18 Aug 13, 14:25
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Captain Terror:


Oh, thanks a lot then! :3

Yup Sir! I'm gonna make them, but I've just made a poor paint job with my netbook for now, in this case, I'm gonna use my personal computer and I'll increase the quality and I make some variations, included the ones you've suggested. wink-wink - ;) Work with a 1280x1024 screen is better than a 1024x600! tongue - :P

OT: I'll come back this evening, I've got to polish my prefabs now for the "Useful Props and Prefabs"] contest on GameBanana. I've got only 4 days to finish OMG! D:

IT: Then I'll make some icons for Sledge. :3

See ya! grin - :D
18 Aug 13, 16:13
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
@PB concerning viewport images:

Yeah I imagine that as well. That setup sounds better than the viewport image in Max, which sucks.

Scaling the image and lining it up to the grid seems necessary. Well, work something out, or what does everyone else think about this?

A super advanced feature idea I have would be, some how, the capability to read an .OBJ file and convert it to something similar to the tr-mesh brushwork or something. That would bridge the modeling and mapping aspect, and allow people to create some really interesting things like nifty curved hallways or an easier time making terrain. This feature would even be of good use to source I think. Sleep on that one.
18 Aug 13, 16:31
By Stojke
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= O P L - 3 =
Thats a damn good icon! smile - :)

Also, will devote a full day this week only to sledge, probably in thursday.
18 Aug 13, 17:35
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
Every time i hear "sledge" i think of this

18 Aug 13, 17:58
By UrbaNebula
avatar
Entirely brush based
Only just starting to work with sledge but it's looking good. I love how simple the setup was. grin - :D

Funny how you don't realise how much you use a certain function until it's missing. On that note, any plans to add the numeric key zooming? smile - :)
18 Aug 13, 20:20
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Numeric key zooming?
18 Aug 13, 20:34
By UrbaNebula
avatar
Entirely brush based
Load hammer and press one of your number keys when hovering on a 2D panel. The default is 4.

I use the mouse-wheel most of the time obviously, but it's a life saver to non mouse-wheelers and I always tap 4 to get back to the default.
18 Aug 13, 21:18
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
I never ever knew that. Sounds real handy.
18 Aug 13, 22:56
By SpaG
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Member
I can't believe you're still working on it PB. It's been years since you started, hasn't it? I remember you speaking about it in IRC way back then.
19 Aug 13, 05:32
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Yeah, been working on it for about 5 years, if you count the 2 years before I scrapped what I had and started over. It's just been a side project that I've slowly added to over the years smile - :)

@All: I'm currently entering all the recently-reported bugs/features into my bug tracker, I'll work on them as fast as I can!
19 Aug 13, 05:42
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Stojke:


Hey, thanks a lot Stojke! grin - :D Very kind. :3
19 Aug 13, 05:45
By Captain Terror
avatar
when a man loves a woman
For the scaling portion of the VM tool, i'd like to see the origin set on the vertices you select, the way the stock tool does it; it's just a lot easier that way imo.

Also, you should be able to move and/or nudge selected vertices in the 2d window, WHILST in VM. (this is crucially needed when lathing an object).

All this said, is still need to time to explore your new gadgets before passing final judgement, so please take this into account wink-wink - ;)
19 Aug 13, 09:07
By ninja defuse
avatar
Member
will u add terrain maker in map editor?
19 Aug 13, 09:16
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Eventually, yes. Once there is support for Source, displacements will work for Goldsource as well (it will automatically convert them into tetrahedrons when you export to .map format).
19 Aug 13, 09:37
By ninja defuse
avatar
Member
i think u should think about "extrude feature" in the map editor, just like in blender 3d, when u select a face and press E u can extrude it
19 Aug 13, 09:56
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Right now I'm focusing on making it function as a good alternative to Hammer, but later on I might be able to add a feature like that.
19 Aug 13, 12:36
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
...Wouldn't it just be easier to drag that side of the brush out the way it's usually done, rather than pressing the extra key? (And going to the trouble of adding the function)
Combine that with clip, and you can easily do exactly the same things you can do with Blender's extrude.
19 Aug 13, 15:42
By Rimrook
avatar
Guru
Basics first.

I'd still like to see support for exporting/import to/from a modeling program like max or blender. Hammer right now is one way and its not the most helpful unless you plan to make a very specific model.
19 Aug 13, 22:19
By UrbaNebula
avatar
Entirely brush based
@Ninja: Not sure what use an extrude face feature would be in hammer. Surely selecting a block then holding shift and dragging is basically that since you would just be creating a new block anyway?
19 Aug 13, 22:31
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
This came up in the shoutbox and I was pointed towards Quark's "path duplicator" object, which offers an extrude-like ability that could actually be quite useful in Sledge. It's definitely something to consider adding in a future version of Sledge. If you can figure out how the hell to use Quark, check it out tongue - :P
I have a few ideas that could potentially make it really neat smile - :)
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