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Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build

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Forums > General Discussion

22 Sep 13, 12:26
By Tetsu0
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Tet Soo Oh
Well I'm just wondering if the .NET framework works different between SP2 and SP3.
It's just an idea because you seem to be having the most problems with the program.
22 Sep 13, 14:57
By ciba43
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Member
Well, it could be different, because in SP3 Microsoft changed a lot of things.
22 Sep 13, 19:41
By Alberto309
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GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Tet & ciba:

Now I remember! I actually can't play Terraria on my PC (requires NET Framework 4), and I can't run Crafty (requires NET Framework but don't remember which version)!. Both pops up a critic error related to the NET Framework when I try to start them. So, seems that my problem IS actually the NET Framework. D:
Well... seems I'm fucked until my connection comes back again! _
Making PB works more for my issues is not a good thing though... unhappy - :(
22 Sep 13, 20:06
By Tetsu0
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Tet Soo Oh
So... you can't run windows update to grab SP3?
How bad IS your connection?
Would it be possible for an overnight download?
23 Sep 13, 07:38
By Alberto309
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GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Tet:

As I said, I'm using an USB internet stick, so I can't download things with it just because, if I download too much, I become unable to connect more often in case my maximum allowed download size finishes. I only have 4 GB left approx, and I need this connection till the the end of the month before renewing the contract. That's my problem, not the connection speed. I actually download at 250 kb/s, so that's not a big problem, the problem is "how much I can download". That's the real problem with USB internet sticks unfortunately. unhappy - :(

EDIT: And also, I'm not the only one in my family that uses the USB stick, my dad and my brother NEED to look at the emails for work every day, so if I expire the whole stick they'll kill me, lol.
23 Sep 13, 10:10
By DiscoStu
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Member
4GB for a week of internet? And THAT is a problem? I don't do 4GB in a MONTH. Unless maybe I download a game or something, but I generally don't...
23 Sep 13, 17:01
By Tetsu0
avatar
Tet Soo Oh
I would highly recommend budgeting that 4GB and upgrading your PC's software. SP3 is out for a reason. Its more secure, and (hopefully) your compatibility problems will go away.

I know the upgrade isn't going to be 4GB.
-------
EDIT
-------
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/det
ails.aspx?id=24


316MB, or .3Gb. So then you're down to 3.68 GB for the rest of the month.

The site also says the download is smaller through windows update.
23 Sep 13, 19:09
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@SugarMan & Tet:

Alright then, I'll try to download the SP3.
The only problem is that I have to move my PC upsairs because I have it in my tavern, and the USB stick doesn't take any friggin' signal down there! <.< I have the renewal on the 8th of October. And I have to be sure that anyone of my family doesn't have to download something big before the renewal, so I can spend all the GB at the end of the month. :3
Sorry for all this shit but, you know, when you have familiars that doesn't know any fucking thing about PC/connections they keep saying: "DON'T CONSUME ALL THE USB STICK!" every single time I use it... even now... like I'm an idiot... and I'm 23 years old... capable of discernment... I feel ashamed. <.<
24 Sep 13, 04:10
By DiscoStu
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Member
But when you know enough, you can discern when those are just empty threats caused by lack of information and you can safely ignore them.
24 Sep 13, 06:27
By Alberto309
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GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@Sugarman:

Yeah... sure... Tell this to my family, I dare you! tongue - :P It's like telling them "IGNORANTS!" lol. xD Italian parents may differ from normal ones lol.

Anyway, I'm gonna try the SP3 asap and then I'll provide all possible informations to you, and especially to PB. smile - :)
24 Sep 13, 06:29
By DiscoStu
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Member
MASCALZONE!
24 Sep 13, 16:32
By Alberto309
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GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
@SugarMan:


Ma cosa dici! xD

Only me and you are able to spam in every thread uh? lol

Stop! xD Back to IT (In Topic, not ITalian, meh)... NAO! u.u

IT: I'm gonna wait some days before downloading the SP3 because upstairs is a bit messed up so I can't place the PC in any part of the rooms atm...
So, PB, if you have to do Sledge updates, forget about me for the moment. tongue - :P
30 Sep 13, 03:38
By DiscoStu
avatar
Member
Nitpick: I realised that depending on what brush type you select on the new brush toolbar, the options end up off screen if your screen resolution is not as high as Penguinboy's. Needs a scrollbar.
06 Oct 13, 08:28
By ciba43
avatar
Member
I found out another thing. I am not quite a very detailed map mapper, but very simple maps start to lag. A lot. The OpenGL 1.0 renderer could use some improvements. And perhaps you could add a OpenGL 2.0 one. Most people have atleast this.
06 Oct 13, 16:52
By rufee
avatar
Sledge fanboy
Wow, great job PB.
Anyway what id like to suggest:
-Draw lines between path_track/path_corner and other entities that benefit from this in 3D view, also have a SHIFT drag feature like in H4 that makes it easier to make a path. (If this isn't there already i haven't tested Sledge myself yet)
-Basic entity info in 3D view

The other 2 might sound crazy
-A WAD editor (delete/add) on the fly .wad updating just put new textures in and have them ready to use.
-Real time .wad updating, not sure how this would work, but it would be great to edit textures in PS and have them update in Sledge instantly like in 3ds max.
06 Oct 13, 18:10
By ninja defuse
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Member
if i could i would donate smile - :)

will u add "displacements"?
07 Oct 13, 03:39
By DiscoStu
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Member
He said he would, a number of times already.
08 Oct 13, 13:09
By Penguinboy
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Haha, I died again!
I might have a couple of older PC's at my disposal in the next few weeks, hopefully I'll be able to replicate some of the OpenGL 1 problems once they arrive smile - :)

@ciba43: Make sure you're using the "OpenGL 1 Display Lists" renderer, because the "Immediate" one is SUPER SLOW. I'll probably remove that one because the Display Lists should work fine for all GPUs. I don't think OpenGL 2 adds much in terms of improving performance (I'm not a graphics expert so I don't know how to do all the optimisation tricks...)

@rufee: Most of those are planned, and the real-time WAD updating is pretty cool but would require a bunch of trickery to get working properly. It's definitely something that I would like to do in the future, though! Drawing text on the screen is much harder than you would think, but I will add it at some point smile - :)

@ninja: Yes, displacements will be added with the other Source features, but they will be supported in Goldsource by creating tetrahedrons when it converts to MAP format for compile.

@Stu: I plan to make the side bar more customisable - but for now, just collapse a few of the higher panels so you can see all the brush details smile - :)

@All: Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I'm having trouble with model loading at the moment so progress is very slow. Patience is a virtue!
08 Oct 13, 14:57
By rufee
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Sledge fanboy
Yeah had a brush with ogl and text, damn that bull be hard to ride grin - :D
08 Oct 13, 19:26
By DiscoStu
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Member
Quote:
but for now, just collapse a few of the higher panels so you can see all the brush details

...THEY'RE COLLAPSABLE surprised - :o
09 Oct 13, 14:03
By ciba43
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Member
Just remembered that OpenGL's 2.0 version main thing is - shading. Like in HL2. Nothing really new.

Oh, and I was already using the Display lists. Not sure why it lagged.

Btw, I am pretty happy to know that a thing like this is making it's way to mapper community. Good luck on making it even better smile - :)
10 Oct 13, 23:39
By Xylem
avatar
Member
Damn, seems I'm stuck with Hammer at the moment. Tried Sledge with Wine again, and it works until I want to open a map. Creating a map works but I can't move around in the 3D view with my mouse, only with W A S D. Perhaps I'll mess around later and see what I can get working. Speaking of which, would it be possible for someone to use Mono for Sledge?
11 Oct 13, 01:22
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Mono support is theoretically possible and I plan on running some tests with it once Sledge is out of alpha. Right now I am only able to support Windows OS but that will hopefully change in the future smile - :)
11 Oct 13, 03:26
By Xylem
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Member
Sounds good! Want to see some images of it under Wine?
11 Oct 13, 04:51
By Penguinboy
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Haha, I died again!
Yes please!
13 Oct 13, 09:38
By Xylem
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Member
Ok so here are some shots:







Interestingly enough it ran better yesterday. This Wine 1.7.4 update seemed to cause Sledge to not even start. After removing all .NET versions and reinstalling what I can (up to version 4.5) I was able to get it running. However, now it only runs properly under Windows Vista and even then it's still more buggy than yesterday. I can't even open up a new map due to the fact it uses Wine's terrible explorer clone now for whatever reason. If anything starts to function better I'll post some new stuff on it!
13 Oct 13, 11:01
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Cool, thanks for sharing smile - :)
18 Oct 13, 03:00
By Tetsu0
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Tet Soo Oh
May i suggest the following shortcuts that I regularly use.

- Holding spacebar in the 3D view temporarily activates freelook/navigate
- double-clicking on an entity in the 3D view loads its properties

Forgive me if I'm reapeating myself.

Is there a location of planned additions? I checked github and I didn't see these in here.

Also I'm not quite sure if the compilation settings are right? I checked the "show log" button but no log appears and then my map doesn't seem to update.
hmm... gonna use the compilator for now then.
18 Oct 13, 12:26
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
- double-clicking on an entity in the 3D view loads its properties

THIS! Like on Source.

Quote:
I'm not quite sure if the compilation settings are right

PB said that for now the compiling process has to be reworked, for now is basic. You have to use a compilator to compile your maps. A good opportunity to use Muzz's Compilator. tongue - :P

And, I don't know if this was already mentioned or if it's already present. But, is it possible to have the 3 grid views not rendered in Software renderer but in Direct X or OpenGL? :O
10 Nov 13, 17:12
By ciba43
avatar
Member
Did a full check on Sledge: still very, very, super laggy.

I started Sledge, checked configuration - checked that I was using OpenGL1.0 Display lists. Started to create a hallway. Created 1st block 1x1. No lags. Now created the second 1x1 block. Lagging started. Actually lags the same as if I had opened a very large, detailed map at it. Strange.

Oh, and you could you make that all textures were arranged like in Hammer? Or just make a options box making it.
10 Nov 13, 17:56
By Rimrook
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Guru
Does sledge have the feature from Hammer where you can paste-special and increment the names and targets, or whatever.
10 Nov 13, 23:59
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Yes, but I have forgotten how complete it is. It makes names unique (if you check the box), but it might not be smart enough to increment numbers and so on. It doesn't update targets at the moment, if I recall.
11 Nov 13, 02:14
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
Also, not to rush you or anything, but how's model support coming along?
I find myself suddenly inspired to maybe get a goldsource map going. Though I'm not yet sure of what it will be, aside from Co-op.
11 Nov 13, 13:36
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
I'm waiting on some older hardware to reach me so I can test my graphics stuff on that. No point adding model support if nobody can use it!
11 Nov 13, 14:43
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
Fair enough. Need to make sure all users can run it.
Another feature request that may have already been mentioned (And I know something similar was suggested by rufee) is brush dimensions on the 2D grids when creating or resizing brushes, like in Hammer 4. The lack of that in 3.5 is one the main reasons goldsource mapping became painful for me. What can I say? I got spoiled by Source.
11 Nov 13, 14:44
By ninja defuse
avatar
Member
can u make a feature: when u press a button the 3d view goes full-screen
11 Nov 13, 14:51
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
Another thing I just noticed is that (studio) tags in the FGD don't add a browser button to the entity property in Sledge, which means you have to type in the filepath manually instead of searching and clicking the model/wav.
11 Nov 13, 22:14
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Yep, I need to add support for more data types in the properties window. I have a nice file browser ready to go for that exact purpose (works with PAK and GCF files).
12 Nov 13, 03:30
By Alberto309
avatar
GTX 660 Ti OC
Quote:
I have a nice file browser ready to go for that exact purpose (works with PAK and GCF files).


Do you know I love you, right?
01 Dec 13, 18:51
By froghair
avatar
Member
This is absolutely amazing! How did you learn the data structures behind the map/bsp files? You have got to point me in the direction where you gained this knowledge.
01 Dec 13, 23:07
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Believe it or not, map file formats are one of the less difficult parts because there is some great documentation on all the formats out there:

MAP - Someone wrote a great paper on parsing and loading MAP files: http://mattn.ufoai.org/files/MAPFiles.pdf

RMF - The person who made HLFix published a file format spec of the RMF format: http://extension.ws/hlfix/rmf.html

VMF - VMFs are plain text (basically JSON documents) so they are very easy to parse and load.

Fortunately I didn't need to decipher the BSP format, but there are a number of published specifications for it if I needed to do so (e.g. Goldsource, Source).

You can see the entirety of Sledge's map file format loaders here: MAP, RMF, VMF
01 Dec 13, 23:40
By Xylem
avatar
Member
While I know Sledge is not going anywhere near OS X or Linux in the foreseeable future, I still thought it would be interesting to see how the source code would look if I ran it through the MoMA tool from Mono's site: http://www.mono-project.com/MoMA

You can see the output here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1800250
3/output.html
02 Dec 13, 01:14
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Wow that's actually pretty good, though it looks like it has missed the HLLib stuff which is where I think the biggest problem is. I haven't tried compiling HLLib from the source so I'm not sure if it's linux/mac compatible.
02 Dec 13, 02:24
By Xylem
avatar
Member
Found this: http://nemesis.thewavelength.net/index.php?
p=35


"SavannahLion of HLPD has ported my HLLib library to Linux. The port has been dubbed libhl and contains a HLExtract clone Slatch."

The link provided is dead now but thankfully Archive.org has saved this page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070630072842
/http://half-lifepd.planethalflife.gamesp
y.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&cid=1


"Download Profile: libhl
libhl is a direct Linux Port of Ryan "Nemesis" Gregg's HLLib Windows library for accessing Steam GCF Files. This version is based on 1.1.6."

Hope you find this useful!
02 Dec 13, 02:28
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
Download appears to be dead, but it looks like Linux support was added in v2.0.5 according to Nem's changelog. So that's a good sign smile - :)
04 Dec 13, 07:25
By Xylem
avatar
Member
That's great to hear! Anytime you need a Linux beta tester I'm right here waiting.
04 Dec 13, 11:39
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
For those wondering what the current progress is, here's a preview of what I've been working on:


(Embiggened version)

Model rendering! Still a lot to do (it's super laggy atm), but it's getting there! Hooray smile - :)
04 Dec 13, 12:43
By froghair
avatar
Member
Excellent!!! Did you have to learn the internals of the .mdl files to get this to work?
04 Dec 13, 13:12
By JeffMOD
avatar
Call 141.12
OH MY GOD YES I LOVE YOU!
04 Dec 13, 13:31
By Penguinboy
avatar
Haha, I died again!
@froghair: Yes, and what a pain it was! Because I need to support many different versions of MDL (Goldsource + 5 Source variations), I couldn't just load the binary straight into a struct like the the engine would, instead it's a very manual process that requires almost 1500 lines of code unhappy - :(

@Jeff: ...
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