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Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build

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Forums > General Discussion

10 Apr 16, 23:53
By Shepard62700FR
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Member
@Jessie : they were talking about the "floating precision"
11 Apr 16, 00:50
By Penguinboy
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Haha, I died again!
The topic is bouncing around wildly, don't try to follow it too closely tongue - :P

I want to add a 3D rotatey widget to the texture axes at some point, it'd be an advanced method of editing textures but it's quite possible. But skewing... I'm not sure. I'd need to do some tests, because I suspect that the texture axes need to be perpendicular. That could be wrong because I've never tested it before.

As for this whole floating point shenanigans: most people WANT the extra precision of floating points, which is why Sledge, Jackhammer, and the unofficial VHE hacks all use it. They're not going to change because one person is relying on VHE's rounding behaviour, but I might think about adding a toggle to enable that behaviour if someone really wants it. As long as you realise that using VHE isn't much different to just rounding every vertex to the closest grid point, which entirely defeats the purpose of using sub-grid vertices.

@McSqueaky: Great, thanks for the update. I'll make sure I fix that issue for the next release.
13 Apr 16, 19:58
By DiscoStu
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Member
I problem know. Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
28 Apr 16, 10:32
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Hey @Penguin_boy, how is your progress? I am waiting for new release of Sledge with correct format of map valve220 like same Valve Hammer Editor
28 May 16, 21:02
By Cd5ssmffan
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Member
Jesus christ I want displacements in goldsrc. For the love of god!!!!
28 May 16, 21:20
By DiscoStu
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Member
It's not the editor, it's the engine that was never coded for it. So even if the editor had the feature, it would do bugger all in game.

And that attitude won't get you anything.
28 May 16, 22:10
By Penguinboy
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Haha, I died again!
The idea is that you edit displacements in the editor, and they get converted into tetrahedrons when the .map file is saved for compilation. I had plans to do something similar to get support for instances in GS as well.

I'm taking a break from Sledge. I'm not sure if/when I'll start development on it again. I just don't have the motivation to work on it anymore.
13 Jun 16, 18:44
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
@Penguinboy, okay! I want you fix correct map format of Valve 220. Without floating point!

It should be same like Valve Hammer Editor. I don't understand why Sven Coop Mappers have no problem? But I have explaind to their because they do not believe me since I have tested curvy hallway than it sees hidden shapes ( texture holes )

Long wait for next release.....

Thanks sorry I am forcing to you. I want you make original version of Map format valve 220 into Sledge Editor
14 Jun 16, 00:02
By Jessie
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Ladytype
Even if he hadn't already addressed this very issue stating that he won't do anything about it, the very last post also says that he won't be working on it for an indefinite amount of time.
14 Jun 16, 23:21
By zeeba-G
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3D
Insta ban. wink-wink - ;)
15 Jun 16, 18:50
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
What is "Insta ban" You mean Instagram will ban or Installation was banned?
15 Jun 16, 19:28
By Admer456
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Member
"Insta ban" probably means "Instant ban". That means that something/somebody will be banned instantly, at the given moment.
15 Jun 16, 19:57
By Urby
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EA Shames
Admer gets it. grin - :D
16 Jun 16, 13:07
By Loulimi
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Member
Actually it should have been: What is insta b...
10 Dec 16, 16:42
By Solokiller
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Member
Unrelated to the other comments, i added floating point export support to SC's Hammer as well; i made it an option in the Options menu. Seems like i was following the same train of thoughts.

Nice work on this editor, too bad you aren't working on it anymore though. Is there a list of GoldSource features that are still needed? I couldn't find anything on the site nor on Github.

Regarding SC's engine being old, it's the latest build from the 2013 update. I remember seeing some patchwork code translating OpenGL into D3D code, but it didn't appear to be functional and was removed.
Their engine is using SDL like the vanilla engine.

It's unfortunate that Valve doesn't reply to anybody's requests to open source or license the engine out, because that would also include Hammer. It'd be a lot easier to make a new editor if you had the original's source code, even if some of the code is hard to understand.
10 Dec 16, 17:19
By Bruce
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Member
wasnt hammers source leaked? i thought thats what jackhammer is based on
10 Dec 16, 17:54
By Highlander
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Member
I liked Sledge, and it's an amazing amount of work you put into it, but I found some of the differences between it and the 3.5 Hammer to be really annoying, after 13 years of working with it.
I don't know if you'll work on it anymore Penguinboy, but if you do, here are some suggestions I'd have:
- Make the camera turning speed in Mouse view adjustable. For me it feels too sluggish.
- The jump distance with the mouse wheel scroll is too big. I think this could use being adjustable as well.
- I'm kind of a speed mapper, so I really preferred when closing an entity dialog box would also apply my changes automatically. With Sledge I keep forgetting to click Apply, and even then I find it to be kinda slow. Maybe you could make it optional to have it apply modifications like in the original?

I understand if you don't want to work on it anymore. Pretty much everyone seems to be using Jackhammer now, which pushed Sledge aside. I don't use it myself, cause reasons. I just stuck with the old 3.5.

@Solokiller:
With Jackhammer and Sledge being around, I don't see why Valve would ever consider opensourcing Hammer 3.5. Considering they didn't put the boot into JackHammer yet, I guess they don't mind it/don't care even that much. Not only that, but there's probably a lot of underground Hammer versions flying about.
I have a talented friend who used the 2010something leak Hammer to make his own Hammer for GoldSrc. He never released it, because he didn't want any legal trouble from Valve.
10 Dec 16, 19:13
By Solokiller
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Member
To nitpick a little, Valve doesn't have 3.5's source code. The SC team received the 3.4 source code.

Hammer's source code has comments from developers that encountered some weird looking code that a previous programmer put in there, it's also written in VS6 and uses MFC, so it doesn't even compile due to non-standard code that causes fgd parsing to fail silently when fixed.

If i were them i'd open source this old stuff so people can keep it going themselves, they could use the publicity.
10 Dec 16, 19:20
By Archie
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My Empire of Dirt
I've been using Sledge again for my competition map, but the weird texturing behaviour still persists. It's really difficult to describe exactly what's going on, but it was my niggle right from the very first version of Sledge I used.

I can only describe it as a sort of disconnect between values and what happens when you right click to apply textures and values (which should be default behaviour as in Hammer, btw)
Changing rotation values seems to uncheck whether a brush is tied to world or face... sometimes.. and applying texture and values with right click seems to try to approximate the exact look of the source brush, rather than taking the standalone values.

So I'll highlight a whole area of my map - tie it all to world and zero all the shift values and rotation values, but then if I apply one of those brushes' texture and values to another brush, it won't be world tied or 0 0'd. It's like nails on a chalkboard for my OCD.

Sorry, I know I'm making a mess of describing this, but the truth is I don't know exactly what's happening. It's just not how Hammer does it and it makes me feel like I never know what values a face actually has, because it's never what I expect it to be.
10 Dec 16, 23:40
By Jessie
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Ladytype
If I knew what the hell I was doing, I'd help out with Sledge unhappy - :( It all seems so complex though, with my limited programming experience...
11 Dec 16, 01:29
By Instant Mix
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Mr. Good Map!
Solokiller's a fairly talented guy who somehow manages to code at the speed of light, is Sledge something that you'd have the motivation to try fiddling with at some point?
11 Dec 16, 01:58
By Shepard62700FR
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Member
Wasn't Sledge supposed to get a full rewrite to target Linux and Mac ? I've read that somewhere that I can't remember.
11 Dec 16, 10:10
By Solokiller
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Member
@Instant Mix

I really don't have time to work on yet another project tongue - :P
I can offer some assistance for debugging and perhaps some reverse engineering of Hammer, but beyond that i really don't have time.
11 Dec 16, 14:31
By Instant Mix
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Mr. Good Map!
Totally understandable! HLEnhanced + the model viewer + day job is stressful enough I'm sure. If anything I should really get off my backside and learn C/C++ , shouldn't be too difficult with other languages under my belt.
11 Dec 16, 15:54
By Tetsu0
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Tet Soo Oh
My gripe is the bug when alt-right-clicking on anything other than a 90 degree angle; it does something weird with the texture axis'
11 Dec 16, 17:31
By Urby
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EA Shames
I totally get where Archie is coming from. Right click texturing in Sledge has always been a little bit off compared to the original functionality. It wouldn't be much of an issue if it wasn't my primary method for texturing. tongue - :P
14 Dec 16, 23:22
By hfc
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Member
i guess somebody on this forum developing sledge editor. i have a suggestion about it.

i dont sure maybe this is obsolete but. i was planning to make a brush car modeled from original one. then i realized it would be easier if i could place a background image to views.

i never attempted to do somtihng like modelling real one. would expert mappers agree this i dont know, but if it is possible and viable could you add that feature to sledge.

-why i need to model that kind of brushwork?
-i can motivate and practise when modelling with brush.
-also it would help with making complex brush from sketches.

this feature used on modelling.

http://isaacwilliams.net/wordpress/wp-conte
nt/uploads/2007/12/blender-2-1-basic-setu
p.png
15 Dec 16, 12:14
By Shepard62700FR
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Member
Just place a brush with a texture on it and use that as a reference.
15 Dec 16, 22:55
By hfc
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Member
clever idea smile - :) worth a try, it takes long to see what i can done with that. and i wonder are there any expert mapper doing stuff like this?
15 Dec 16, 23:22
By Tetsu0
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Tet Soo Oh
Quote:
Just place a brush with a texture on it and use that as a reference.


I've done this many times to create quick layouts from sketches.
It can be done for more complex brushwork, but if you need to get that detailed, you might as well toss a model in there.
16 Dec 16, 00:45
By hfc
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Member
ok, thank you Tetsu0 for the answer. smile - :) and also thank you Shepard62700FR for giving this idea smile - :)
16 Dec 16, 21:01
By hfc
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Member
oh just noticed i guess there is an example of putting texture to model complex brush. it is done by "instant mix" for half-life reimagined, saw from the 4th page of compo 34 forum. i didnt aware of his work. what a coincidence smile - :)
27 Dec 16, 12:49
By Captain Terror
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end of line
Apologies if these are reiterative!

Alt-P'ing in Sledge giving me entity has invalid key/value pairs error for every entity, does this just mean I need an updated FGD? (my current is halflife.fgd)
Quickly testing another map, I found the HLDM map was from some enhanced mod or coop thing, hence all the invalid keys/values smile - :)

Also using entity report in sledge, I see the filtering works, but is there no way to shift/ctrl or select all of a type?
27 Dec 16, 13:29
By Captain Terror
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end of line
@Archie @Tetsu0
I remember having texturing issues too last time I mapped, but I think I just suffered through manually aligning everything. Could you do the texture alignments in Hammer 3.x, and import back to Sledge(or would the importing bork the texture alignment?)

I know for the brush lathing-vertex scaling--for Subsanctum I just used Hammer 3.x instead of Sledge because it was faster.

I'm currently using CSGO SDK for the entity report functionality, to blanket select/remove all the entities I'm not using, and conveniently group others for my entry, then importing back to Sledge--it's working out ok so far. (I'd use Hammer 3.x instead, but I don't have it installed on this rig)
28 Dec 16, 00:23
By Tetsu0
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Tet Soo Oh
I suppose i could always use hammer for texturing - i keep everything on grid as it is because i'm OCD.
I'd just rather not use 2 tools when I could use one, you know?

Sledge is almost there. I can taste it.
28 Dec 16, 05:54
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
Yeah correct say who said about Hammer source. Why do we never got from valve because wxwidgets 1.x to 2.x are incompatible to last version. You remember a common error message since closing hammer wgl message. That is why they cannot recompile new binary because WIN API, GTK API and Cocoa API are very changed and work latest version of operating systems. That is why we need use latest version of wxwidgets and we need to rewrite - I am starting to learn and to understand to c++

Like this:
Quote:
Class program public wxApp
{
public
bool OnInit();
....
};
IMPLEMENT_APP(program);

I will try more than I have good experience of c++ class structure include with OpenGl 4.5.
28 Dec 16, 08:18
By Solokiller
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Member
Hammer doesn't use wxWidgets, it uses MFC.

I actually investigated the wgl error, it happens when multiple maps are open and Hammer tries to shut down OpenGL multiple times. I think i fixed that in Sven Co-op's Hammer as well.
28 Dec 16, 10:40
By Shepard62700FR
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Member
@SourceSkyBoxer : WGL (also known as Wiggle) is the API that handle all OpenGL <-> Windows windowing interface system communication. The Cacoa (OSX) equivalent is CGL, the X11 (Linux) is GLX. Nowadays, people are using EGL (for OpenGL ES, OpenVG and Wayland which is gonna replace soon X11) or GLUT (1 code to dominate WGL, EGL, CGL at the same time).

Like Solokiller mentionned, the crash related to "wgl" is likely triggered because of an OpenGL context that can't be shut down or Valve forgot to loop over the opened maps.
28 Dec 16, 11:53
By Captain Terror
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end of line
@Tetsu0
I hear ya brother. Besides a couple quirky things, I find Sledge far and away better than Hammer 3.x--or Hammer 4 for that matter smile - :)
28 Dec 16, 19:17
By SourceSkyBoxer
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Member
@Solokiller and @Shepard: Ah sorry I thought like wxWidgets has wgl like this forum

MFC? Oh.. I saw very close to wxwidgets. Thanks for explanation!
28 Dec 16, 19:50
By Solokiller
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Member
MFC has a structure that is very similar to wxWidgets, but it's an obsolete library for a reason. It uses outdated design practices like absolute positioning so try to avoid it if you can.
31 Dec 16, 01:18
By Captain Terror
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end of line
Would it be doable to somehow make point entities--and brush-based ones too I guess--selectable by selecting around or clicking the entity name in 2D?
27 Mar 17, 20:38
By Striker
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Member
BUG REPORT:

I can't set "Start Off" to a trigger_push brush. I select the respective checkbox and hit apply. When opening the entity properties again it's again unchecked.
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