Journal #8435

Thanks, dude!
I'm voting yes in under 7 hours. It's happening today.

Check out the Post Your Photos thread for some photos I took of a rally against BBC bias on the matter.

So excited. So anxious. I really hope we get this so that our largely left-wing, liberal and green country can take charge of its affairs rather than have them used as playthings by the London elite and their protection of big business and bankers' interests at the expense of their citizens.

"so did Australia" well sorta kinda, we still have the union jack in our flag, and the Queen still likes to visit cos we're part of the commonwealth, and the governor General can still fire our prime-minister.

Shame he doesn't.

Go Scottland, you a strong independent country who don't need no England!

Scottland is a different place.

People are willing to die for freedom; people did die for freedom.

If the road to freedom is always this easy, I cannot fathom why anyone would not take this path.

If my son becomes a great man, perhaps he will become the founding father of Scottland one day.

I find it difficult to believe he could be anything other than a great man with such a great father.

Scotland supports Scottland

Tetsu0 Supports Scotland and Scottland
Long live freedom.
Best of luck, Archie!

Post the vote percentages when they're final. I'm curious about the statistics.

They were asking voters what they thought of it on the radio before, and pretty much every single one of them said they had voted no to independence. However it was obviously a quite small sample size, so that's probably very little if any indication as to what the actual result will be.

The exit poll at the last American presidential election also showed a Republican win.

Look at what happened to that race.

Sorry to hear about the result.

For anyone else wondering: the "NO" vote won it, there's no new countries forming today.

I got up at 5 am and realized the disappointing outcome.

I am curious about the breakdown of the election demographics. I suspect the majority of the elderly voted "no" to retain the financial security of unity, and the majority of the young voters voted "yes" for greater autonomy.

But independent or not, Scotland is going to have greater control over its economic and defense policies in the future. That's a start.

Ten years from now, we can have another referendum.

Satchmo just quoted the SnCGames Whatsapp chatroom pretty much word for word.

Also, your assumption was correct. Archie stated that the majority of 16 - 24 year olds voted yes and the majority of 65+ year olds voted no.

I'm happy with today's outcome, really was worried that it'd be a Yes vote.

I have a completely different viewpoint to Archie regarding the whole matter which literally symbolizes the Scottish divide considering we're the only two Scottish TWHL members.
Even though it was a No vote that passed, the amount of fire that's been started by all this campaigning will mean that there will be changes happening for definite. It won't go unnoticed by anyone whatsoever.

I'm glad almost everyone has been civil after the vote was released though. There's been a few douchebags from both sides, sore Yes losers and arrogant and patronising No voters - but on the whole, nobody has been bombed so it's been fairly good so far. We're looking at you, Ireland.

William Wallace must be turning over in his grave.

And Alex Salmond resigned.

Why would you vote to get rid of your own power to vote, Oli? I'm in tatters over this.
The debate got muddied with scaremongering and focus on SNP policy rather than the core issue - that we are not even vaguely represented in Westminster.
For one referendum we had a democracy, and we used it to democratically remove our ability to vote on how we're governed. The irony would be hilarious if it didn't make me want to jump off a cliff.
I'm so empty and disappointed in people not understanding what they were losing. Seriously, I feel ill.

Speaking of "The Core issue," the issue with The Core is it isn't finished. The referendum is over Archie. Stop pissing about with politics and get back to work!

Hey archie, you're welcome to crash in the USA
We need better graphics people anyway.
You could do sports graphics for ESPN - I work under a mile away from them.

I had no idea you lost your democracy in this vote - to be honest I didn't do my own research aside from what I heard here. The US media stations are barely covering it.

You must be devastated.

Of all people, Americans should be able to relate to this.

Without our Declaration of Independence, United States would not even exist. We would still be part of Great Britain.

And there were a lot of people who were against breaking away from Britain back in the days. Fortunately for us Americans, we knew we could do better than what the Brits did for us.

We might have been similar to the English back then, but no one would confuse an American with a Brit 238 years later. We are different, we are free, and we are better off without English control.

Meanwhile, on American news.Scotland sure is givin' its 110%!

@Penguinboy: It already is a country, so there wouldn't be any new countries forming even if "yes" won.

I really, really don't want to cause an argument arch but seriously we have considerably more power than a lot of people are trying to make it out that we have. We have our own bloody parliament for gods sake! The major issues that were brought up supporting the argument for independence were literally around finances, and that's about it. There was no scaremongering in the campaign, it was pointing out genuine issues and flaws that would arise given the case we became independent. Just because it doesn't float your boat doesn't mean it isn't a valid argument. I do agree there are some positives to becoming independent but weighing the risks with the rewards, it's not remotely worth it. We are represented in Westminster, if it wasn't for us we wouldn't have had a labour government from '97 to 2010. This whole UKIP thing is complete nonsense, there is no way in hell they are getting into power. Reminds of that whole BNP scare a few years ago.. nothing really came out of that, did it?

Changes ARE going to be happening.

There really isn't an argument to cause, mate. The no camp messed up and we're gonna pay heavily for it. Consider that the majority no vote was people aged 65+ who are only aware of what the shocking biased media campaign was telling them and some 40,000 neo-nazi thugs and you'll perhaps understand who you sided with.
The Orange Order riots in Glasgow are only further proof of how flawed the Better Together mindset is. These people won and they're celebrating by inciting violence, intimidation and property damage to anyone they suspect doesn't support Rangers.

Ah well... A missed opportunity for the nation - and I mean for the UK. That was a first 'moon landing' moment in history for many and, despite their despondency at the moment, they won't forget the feeling of excitement and passion they've been carrying.

That vote was about starting a revolution in political thinking for ordinary people in Britain. Empowerment! A meaningful vote that really brings change. The 'NO' voters have just emulated turkeys voting for christmas. Same old bollocks, same old vested interests, same old cynicism.

We very badly need a vision of the future that goes beyond the value of our houses and, in London and the Southeast, I don't know how that will ever happen. It shackles everyone to the status quo, whatever party you support.

If you haven't already, read Irvine Welsh's article in today's Guardian. He's articulated it far more eloquently than I could.

It's going to be interesting to see how Westminster tries to untangle the shambles they've got themselves into. The big question to be answered is the size of Cameron's laundry bill to clean his past couple of week's soiled underwear!Don't buy into the Stockholm Syndrome, Oli. Majority of Westminster MPs are blocking further powers being awarded to Scotland, Jack Straw is calling for Independence to be made illegal and we're having our national budget slashed by billions, the Orange Order are more violent and racist than ever and the BBC is reporting none of it. Look outwards and forwards. This is no future for a proud nation.

You just keep fighting the good fight Archie. Bad things happen to good people all the time in this world, just remember the night is always darkest before the dawn.

From what information I've gathered I'd say the outcome was pretty bad, nothing will change except perhaps the supporters of independence getting more shit from those who like to be ruled by those who care little for them and are far far away, and more laws/acts restricting independence and such like we have here in the USA. I don't feel this was a failure of the Democratic system, but a failure of people properly getting informed, and being blind to the situation. I'm sure the USA's founding fathers would be confused as hell right now looking at the situation.

You'll have your time Archie.

Control the media and you control most of the vote.

Don't know if it's even the slightest bit relevant, but what the hell, I like this scene anyway. http://youtu.be/KKvvOFIHs4k

"There really isn't an argument to cause, mate. The no camp messed up and we're gonna pay heavily for it. Consider that the majority no vote was people aged 65+ who are only aware of what the shocking biased media campaign was telling them and some 40,000 neo-nazi thugs and you'll perhaps understand who you sided with.

Wow. I strongly dislike that direct colleration that you have explicitly stated. I'd like you to please explain how we are going to "pay" for voting no. And by we, I mean the majority of people - the DEMOCRATIC VOTE. Because a bunch of football hooligans riled up for a fight like they bloody do anyway ( see : london riots) and besides, it wasn't anywhere near 40,000 people, has got literally nothing to do with this.

"The Orange Order riots in Glasgow are only further proof of how flawed the Better Together mindset is. These people won and they're celebrating by inciting violence, intimidation and property damage to anyone they suspect doesn't support Rangers.
Ah yes, all the no supporters are mindless idiots wanting to cause violence. I'm a no supporter and it's fairly obvious the Orange Order are mentalist extremists and I do not remotely condone their actions - and i'm pretty sure next to nobody will have a differing opinion to me on that. You can't say that a Yes win would not cause a riot either.

"That vote was about starting a revolution in political thinking for ordinary people in Britain. Empowerment! A meaningful vote that really brings change. The 'NO' voters have just emulated turkeys voting for christmas. Same old bollocks, same old vested interests, same old cynicism."
That's exactly what it's done. It has been the catalyst for a new explosion into politics. People didn't care beforehand but now that they thought every vote mattered, they've put time and effort into researching the subject at hand. And these are people as young as 16 years old. It has had a positive effect, you can't deny that whatsoever. And I'm going to take personal offence to that, voting no was not a knee-jerk reaction. I looked into the facts and figures, I watched the debates, I looked at the media, and I made my own educated opinion that now is not the right time for independence and there were too many factors still left unknown that -when making such a drastic change -should have been set in stone months before rather than this "just trust us we can do it afterwards" attitude. There were completely valid and drastic issues that would have rocked an independent scotland - just because you do not agree with them does not mean they are "scaremongering" - they are valid points nonetheless.

"It's going to be interesting to see how Westminster tries to untangle the shambles they've got themselves into."
What shambles? They've promised and they will deliver. They'll be complete and utter morons if they go back on their promises. We're expecting details within the week.

"Don't buy into the Stockholm Syndrome, Oli. Majority of Westminster MPs are blocking further powers being awarded to Scotland.. "

I'm not being affected by Stockholm Syndrome whatsoever. Trying to relate this to a hostage situation is completely idiotic. We are not being held captive by Westminster by any definition whatsoever. We have our own parliament, we get a shit-tonne of money from Westminster as it is. There aren't even that many issues that independence would grant to us. Finance control I agree with, but again, Cameron has pledged that he will make changes.
MPs are not blocking further powers being awarded to Scotland, that was completely taken out of context, that was actually in regards to English MPs wanting more power if "scotland can get it too". The opposition was to more powers for the English parliament.

Continuing to mention the Orange Order is indentical to mentioning the BNP. Completely irrelevant ,not remotely representative and generally not even an issue.

The vote is over. Changes are going to be happening. All that some people are doing now is continuing to pursue their own - in my personal view hatred breeding - agendas, rather than deciding "well, it was a no vote, I'm upset, but we might as well start to work together to get this country what it deserves".

So it's 8 days since the referendum here's some stuff that's happened since then...
1- Cameron backtracks on extra powers for Scotland about 5 hours after the no vote
2- the oil that was going to run out in 20 years is now gonna last 120 years, the Clair field alone will produce 120k barrels a day
3- the NHS that was perfectly fine (according to labour) 7 days ago is now being privatised with labour urging for help to save it
4- plans for the Barnett formula to be scrapped
5- spending to be cut in Scotland
6- Fracking given the green light in Scotland....yippee!
7- Child benefits frozen
8- Pension age rising to 70
9- Benefits ban for under 25's
And number 10 best of all we get to follow America into another war!! Happy days!

Better Together Better Together Better Together