ok sounds good sorry i take so long to reply btw my nets down at the mo so i use mo mobile as a modem when i have credit i was thinking more sort of somalian pirates of the carribean lol but yeah thats the basic jist of it i think i understand what you mean ill give it a go thanks. EDIT: hate to bump this but i was hoping for some more help i got my sea looking okay but in trying to build the first ship i have a couple of problems one is that to make a realistic shape whole sections of the hull dissapear once i load the map for testing (i am using vertex manipulation for shaping) and the other is what is the best way to add the water i learned the hard way never to carve.