dm_hothworld beta

It's hard to judge since almost everything will be retextured. Since the map is so big, you had to use high texture scales which at the moment make the map look plain. I like the fact that you included so many things from the real Hoth base (I didn't expect to be able to enter 'The Falcon'). The bad part about it is that you will need extra work to make them look good.
In terms of lighting, the map needs more variation. Blue lights, some little red emergency lights somewhere... It would be better if you alternate the position of the light sources. Instead of having most of the fluorescent lights in the ceiling, put them next to the floor or in walls (remember my own Hoth map! )
As for layout and gameplay. I would get rid of the hallways or make them much shorter. The film had them, but it would be best if you could just leave them as extra detail: make the player see them but not enter them due to some ceiling collapse, debris etc.)
Keep it up!

Thanks so much for the comments! This will still be the playtestable map as-is for the server--if muzz approves it--. I will certainly take you comments into consideration for the the stage-2 version though.

I never realized about the hallways being so long, but I suppose it's quite obvious I suppose also it makes the whole level unnecessarily long to navigate.

Yeah, if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have made the Falcon "enterable". It took way too long to work on, and it still has far to go (and not really worth the effort/time imo). O-well

I agree 100% about the lighting. Updates-a-comin'!

Thanks again!

Hmm. The scale is HUGE but i guess that's allright. It IS starwars anyway. Those At-At's are a pain in the ass, and i dont really see why you would go outside in a DM match when you're getting shot less inside.
They're cool tho.

I agree with kasp on the hallways. They're very long, and if you look at most dm maps there arent a lot of hallways, and the ones that exist are small. try to keep them (i hear this somewhere i dont remember where) 2 seconds long.

as in it'll take you 2 seconds to run through it

Um.. hmm

The Rotating Gun platforms are cool, but i'd like to see which weapon i'm acually picking up.

I've used this way of weapon placement before ::

Make a func_rotating with the null texture

and place a weapon model with a killtarget and playerequip ontop of the func_rotating.Render it like the guns are, and you should have a rotating hologram of whatever weapon, that will give you ammo.

That door in the main room took a crapload of time to open. Im not sure if thats for some specific effect or not. I liked the Falcon. Thumbs up on that one.

I really would like to see where you're gonna take this map!!

Keep it up

Thanks for the detailed commments!

It is pretty huge, but atm the whole outside part of the map is more than a gimmic than anything else. Unless the ATATs are shooting at somebody else on the opposite side of that area, it's virtually impossible for combat out there. I either have to create more cover or make their laser bolts weaker or something. The original aim was to put secrets/goodies to entice players to walk out there, but at this point, there is nothing

I have some ideas on how to reduce the hallway length or break them up, and upon yours and Kasperg's advice, I'm definitely going to modify them. There are some detail rooms I could add like the water chamber where Luke is healed, or some other things.

The rotating weapon icons are supposed to represent weapon/ammo depots. I realize it's not a traditional dm thing, but whatevs. Your method to make weapon models rotate is quite intriquing though actually, and sounds like a simpler alternative to this recent tutorial:
http://twhl.co.za/mapvault_map.php?id=4339

Thanks for taking the time to playtest it! Feel free to add more if you come up with more ideas!

i have been instructed by powers beyond our comprehension to be a real bitch when reviewing this, and not take into consideration either of the following:

• that rowleybob is always the guy who stopped me giving up on mapping.
• what other people have said in reviews.

So...

*downloads

Bollocks. Hit refresh which double posted. Urgh. I'll get Daubster on the case.

Anyway. I made a list of 17 points..

• Excellent .zip format. Easy to read instructions, and a nice folder set-up for people who dont know where to put custom skies etc. (+)
• Rotating guns for ammo = PWN. I love the idea and how it's executed. Really suits the theme. Why is the RPG inaccessable? Did i miss a trick? (++)
• Music and Ambience. Fantastic. I never noticed the music loop, so you did it pretty seamlessly. Congrats on that. Good to hear the sounds of the actual hoth invasion. (+)
• OMFG! X-wing and A-wing ftw! (+)
• Shield generator is great. One of the few things that doesn't need custom textures to be exactly what it's meant to be. Is it destroyable? That would be quite cool as a "crossfire bombing" idea, which in my opinion, every DM map needs. You hear the commander target the main shield generator. An alarm starts ringing, maybe a game_text informs players that they're screwed unless they get to <safe place> , then the generator gets shot by the big walker and goes kabloowey, killing everyone not in the <safe place> ... ? just a suggestion =] (+)
• Ion cannon, like the shield generator looks great. Make it shoot into the sky every so often? (maybe it does and i missed it?) (+)
• I love the way you allowed access to not only what was either a transport ship or a calimari cruiser (hard to tell without textures XD) but also the falcon! Brilliant work! (+)
• the AT-AT's 'heads' move to follow the player... ! =D I get a tingley sensation of joy chasing around one of their legs while the other two shoot at me ^_^ (+)
• Texturing, for the most part is horrible. I know this is stage 1, but the crete texture for the cliffs is just plain nasty I cant wait to see how much better it is with custom textures. Ships cry out for custom textures too. (-)
• The lift that goes to the roof of the transport ship. Great idea, but very flawed, especially for a deathmatch map. If you stand too close to the side, you get crushed by the door. The lift then goes back down without closing the door, so the next time you use it, the doors close on you and you get crushed. Again. (-)
• The Falcon's interior, and the room it's stored in really lack detail. It was definately the most ugly part of the map, and sadly, not just because it lacked custom textures. Also, not part of the negative, but another idea. The Falcon could perhaps have its gun turrets controllable by the player? (-)
• The AT-AT's bullets, while incredibly cool, look rather silly in rapid-fire like that. It gave me quite a chuckle. (-)
• Maybe just personal opinion, but i dislike the control room xmas tree. Also, you should get the probe sound filling that room... Y'know, the one that Han destroys, and you get to see Chewey with a snow moustache? ^_^ (+/-)
• You can Gauss jump on to the cliffs, the generator, the ion cannon and.. well, just about everywhere. Is this intentional? If not, clip brush away, Luke. (+/-)
• The smaller walkers. Are they meant to be in the distance or actually smaller walkers? Because the smaller version of the AT-AT walkers are AT-ST "chicken" walkers which only have 2 legs. (+/-)
• You can easily gauss past the walkers to the sky. Odd. (+/-)
• This will pwn with custom textures ^_^

So,
9 + stars.
4 - stars.

9/4 = 3.

3 stars. Of course i wont rate on the unfinished beta.

KEEP WORKING, BOY!

Good, on request I'll give some mean comments. Let's do it in Comments and Suggestions style (Questions and Answers).

C. The sound, while being a nice touch, is very repeatable and becomes annoying.
S. Use multiple sounds, spread across the map. More subtle and more variation.

C. The ATAT's gunfire is killing me! And those lasers look odd!
S. The ATAT's are too cool to be left out. Make them fire at the hangar in general, so their gunfire acts as a visual effect only. This allows you to tweak their laser blast effect some more, too.

C. The corridors are boring and lack cover.
S. Either shorten the corridors, or better, expand them into larger area's. Some more interesting connectivity in the map would also be good: there is one central area (hangar) with 4 routes leading to it, but the other two (shield generator & falcon) only have 2 connections, and in the falcon area, they're too close to each other. That breeds campers.

C. Health? Armor? Anything-but-the-gauss-or-grenades?
S. I understand doing a gauss-only map is a design decision, but I wonder if it'll make for a very interesting map, especially on the long run. Leaving out health and armor reduces the flow of players, because there are less items that attract them. Oh, now that we're talking about the gauss, a gauss-only map without rewarding gauss-jump tricks is pretty pointless.

C. All those Star-Wars things look cool, but what's their purpose?
S. Obviously, a falcon with only one entrance and nothing inside (everyone already has the crowbar) is useless. At least provide multiple entrances, and give players a reason to enter it. Whether that;s a controllable laser turre on top, or a nice load of batteries, is up to you (and some playtesting sessions).

C. It's pretty dark here.
S. Yes, it is, generally. While not too dark, it could've been brighter. And as Kasperg stated, more variation would be welcome too.

All in all, it feels like the map is based more on Star-Wars gimmickery than on an actually well-thought gameplay idea. The size of the area's is about right if you want to keep it a gauss-map, but it certainly lacks vertical gameplay. Some short dead-ends here and there and slowly opening doors (making connectivity worse) don't help either: the map feels somewhat sloppy through them.

Tip: create some gameplay test maps first, pretty simple in architecture and texturing, and run through them for a while to see which one feels better, more interesting. Playtest the result with some friends, preferrably with a variety of different people. See what they think about it, listen to their suggestions. It'll help you create a solid gameplay without costing too much time. Of course, you already place some placeholder brushes for important scene pieces like X-wings and stuff, so you don't have to break your head about where to place them without messing up the existing layout.

Perhaps it's a good idea to do so now. Copy the map into a new file, strip away all details and work on a bare-bone thing only. You can copy the details back later once you've got a solid layout to work with. Perhaps this workflow doesn't suit you too well, but it has helped me a lot (although it took some time to get used to it ;)).

Thank you for the super-long review Mr. Hunter! It's amazing to me the things obvious things I've missed making this, and I appreciate your help in pointing them out!!1

Your review made me think of things I never previously thought would be issues. A big one is I forgot about the gauss jump. Because I was planning to keep most of the outside area cliffs inaccessable, clip brushes will definitely be in order.

I never thought about making the shield generator or ion cannon more interactive, but it's certainly worth a try--especially the Ion cannon shot/sound every once in a while would be cool as hecks.

The transport ships top access door is a real problem. As you know, unless you sit in the center of the lift, it will crush/kill you, not to mention bork the sequence. I'm really at a loss as to how to fix this besides putting in a ladder, or making the whole top of the hatch area func_illusionary :

I agree about the probe sounds in the control room. I actually recorded this for that room, but haven't put it in yet:
http://rowleybob.googlepages.com/hoth2.mp3

And finally, I agree about the flaws you pointed out with the ATATs. I have a seperate map with them in it for testing purposes, and they still need plenty of refinements, not to mention making the laser blast's more realistic and the forced-perspective ATATs--which were never meant to be reached up-close.

Thank you again Huntee for the comments! I'll try not to let you down

Remove the top-hatch, I'd say. It's generally a very small, short 'sequenced' thingie, perhaps not something that ultimately fits well in a deathmatch map. I mean, gauss-jumping up there sure is a lot faster... Considering that, a ladder would probably be best.

Oh, as for clipping off the cliffs, it might disappoint some players. I got comments on Detention that one broken ladder that lead to a small platform (that I put there for decorations sake) disappointed people, because they could get up there with the gauss, but found nothing. Just something to keep in mind.

Captain P:

I threw in weapon spawns at the last minute and didn't add any other weapons in the map, which is bad on me. The original aim was to make the outside of the map pretty much a suicide zone, with some goodies to enitice you to risk it. As Hunter pointed out though, it's apparently not deadly enough I'm going to use the droid health and shield chargers from dm_lars as well--which I also forgot to add.

Most of the star wars things are just there as big props. The transport in the main hangar is intended as a vis blocker. Looking back, the work I spent fleshing out the falcon was not worth it looking at the end product, and I would've left it solid if I had it to do again. As it stands now, both of the big ships need lots of detail/accessibility upgrades. I plan on adding a couple of func_tanks to the falcon eventually, as well as other things.

I agree about the vertical gameplay. I'm adding catwalks to the falcon area, and I'll probalby connect that area also with the outside. As far as other connections, I'm not sure.

I totally agree about your layout/gameplay remarks. Whenever I start maps like this, I always try to create the theme 1st, and consider gameplay and performance second. It's a problem I know. One of these days I'll listen to you!

Thank you again for the detailed comments! I'll try to do MOST of the things you mentioned

It's not that much of a problem: I create theme maps before starting the actual map too. However, I don't stick to these theme test maps, as I also create layout test maps, and when I'm happy with both, I start merging stuff and finalizing things.

Now that you've gotten so far with the detailing, doesn't mean you have to stick to this layout. But since it's generally hard to change layouts when a lot of work has already been done (more of an emotional difficulty I guess), starting from scratch and using the elements can be very helpfull.

Anyway, good luck with this.

Wow, this is actually my favourite Star Wars: Battlefront map

Its amazing that how you managed to build the AT-AT and the figthers with just hl1 textures, good job. It would be cool if one of the fighters was trying to take down an AT-AT with it's ropes. (like in the battlefield)
It could easily be done with an env_beam and func_rotating (you have the fighter anyway)

And I agree with Captain P about the sound, if you want a good battle music get the main menu music in Jedi:Power Battles. (bam bam bara bam, bam bam bara bam, bam bam bara bam uhm...yea )

Decent entity work with the turrets. Turrets ftw!

Snow effect with the sand texture (funny but satisfying )

In conclusion, it seems that you made a hell of a effort to build the Star Wars props. but forgot to detail the corridors, lighting and inside the ships.(light-blue lighting looks cool though, lol)

Still 3.5 = 4 stars from meh

Mine too!! nothing beats the speeders imo, picking off the ground troops and ATSTs (I never used the tow cable ;)).

That's a great idea with the func_rotating speeder and the ATAT. It's definitelely plausible!

I agree about the sound too. I have a whole slew of triggerable sounds to work with I recorded from the first 34 minutes of Empire Strikes Back--all the battle of Hoth. I'll look into other music for the theme as well.

Thanks for the comments and the ideas!!

The file are corrupted with WinRar

I just used xp's "send to compressed (zipped) folder" right-click option, and it seems to work for almost everybody, although Tetsu0 was having a problem too saying the file was invalid.

Don't know what to tell you about WinRAR, but maybe try redownloading?

Thx.. I downloaded it 3 times and it say its corrupted... I will try to use xp's compressor to extract...

Nope... I'm still getting file corrupted errors with xp's compressor...

"Why is the RPG inaccessable? Did i miss a trick?"

-Answer now.

oh, and the lift on the transport? Just make it have 0 crush damage.

Either that, or make the doors slide into the ceiling instead of rotate

Comments posted at SP.

The idea is really neat, but this map has some flaws, im affraid:

- Darkness. Some area's are too dark, IMO. Could be my monitor, though.
- Texturing. Most textures in the map are unalligned. Almost as if as you've only applied them, without finetuning (scaling, rotating, etc)

+ Weapons. Those rotating brush weapons are a really nice touch. You never no what kind of weapon you get by walking into them.
+ Those "elephant" tanks (don't know the name, im not into Star Wars), and other ships. Awesome! It seems you're really good at making things like that.

I say keep working on this, and it'll get a place on my server.

I noticed something, that I forgot to mention at SP.
At least one of the sprites was missing while I was looking around. IS this on my end or yours?

I mean, is there a patch or something I need to rectify this or, did you need to include the sprite?

Hunter: Making 0 crush damage will not prevent the sequence from borking, which I care about more than killing the player. Maybe If I put a bullseye in the center of the lift?

There is no RPG on the map, only the weapons from the weapon dumps. The one in the screenie shown was managed by impulse 101 ;)--sorry I didn't answer your question the first time around

Muzzle: Fair enough. After seperating all the props to a seperate map--to focus on the layout--, I dedided I'm redesigning the main bulk of the map--as well as new textures.

Since people are complaining about the weapons I suppose I may eliminate the weapon dumps as well

Ag3nt-x: I dunno waht to tell ya, sorry

Orpheus: I double checked all the stuff that uses sprites--mostly func_tanklasers and some lights, and I couldn't find any missing. If you could pm me more information why you believe one is missing, maybe we can get to the bottom of it

Thanks all for the comments! The general consensus is this map needs a lot more work than I thought it did... so I better get to it! <3

I'm a bit late with writing some mean comments am I?
Everything has been said already.

Really bad texturing (custom textures are a must for this one..), no rewards for going out in the wild while you die in 4 hits by those big monster thingies (I like Starwars, but I don't know how they're called. :P), bland lightning etc.

It needs some work, but I think if done properly, this could bring a new sort of gameplay.

One thing tho, maybe I just missed something, but I couldn't get the rotating shotgun things with a yellow brick above them? Explain please.

I like the weapons idea.

http://www.snarkpit.net/pits/orpheus/images/dm_hothworld0000.jpg
http://www.snarkpit.net/pits/orpheus/images/dm_hothworld0001.jpg
http://www.snarkpit.net/pits/orpheus/images/dm_hothworld0002.jpg

Hope that helps.

Can you compress with a valid zip or rar archive and reupload it???...

Freshed: Thanks. The rotating green icons are for spawnable func_tank lasers. Tilt your player view toward the wrench icon and click the use button. The yellow brick is a progress bar--but only looks right if you are at certain directions, because it only "progresses" in one direction.

After a couple seconds, a Battlefront-style turret should emerge

Orph: Your transparency Dlls are need updating afaik--they look transparent for me, and nobody else has said anything. If the sprite wasn't included, you'd get an error message, and/or the map wouldn't even load.

If you're using steam, try the validate feature. If you're using WON, copy the steam dlls over yours.

Dude it IS a valid zip. IF it wasn't all the people who've left comments wouldn't be possible. I don't know how, but the problem is on your end. I can try emailing it maybe?

No... never mind it...

shit ¬¬, the zip file is corrupted for me

This is really weird. It works for some people fine, and borks for others. I have no explanation! I can try emailing it uncompressed if you want. PM me if you do.

oooh. the thing with the yellow bar above it. that is what i meant by the RPG being in-accesable. i thought that's what the brush-weapon looked like... So i press E at it, eh?

lol yup! I really took it for granted that most people would remeber it from my Battlefront turret map. Looks like I should add a game_text message trigger when you go near the turret

Again, the yellow bar is supposed to be a progress bar, however, if you looking at it in parallel to the movement, it won't appear to move at all unfortunately

I would download, but our computer has been haveing Viruses, I think they are gone, but I don't want to chance it. Not saying its a bad thing, but the lasers in Star Wars for the AT-AT are red, but from the comments I read about this map, its sounds Realy good, I'll have to download when I can.

I'm such a lazy bastard for not checking this out earlier.
Here's a late (hope it's not too late) review.

+ Architecture. Though some of the larger areas lacked detail (mostly the open area with the walkers and the hangar with the Falcon and the corridors) - the overall looks were quite satisfying for a beta. I'd definately add some more equipment/computers in the hangars, maybe a func_train robot mechanic (can't remember, if they had one in SW), that'd move around the hangar(s) emitting some funny sounds? That'd definately add to the overall Star Wars-ish atmosphere of the map.
The terrain outside looked pretty decent, although the areas, that are accessible to the player (I suppose, that you won't be able to walk to the AT-ATs in the final version) could use a couple more bumps. Some glaciers would be pretty cool too.
Although the area, that needs the most work are definately the corridors. I won't flame em', since it's a beta, but FFS, add some detail! I'd suggest making them hexagonal, with pipes, wires, sci-fi-tech stuff hanging from the ceiling. Some funky blu-ish lighting would be nice too. ^^
The command center, with the xmas tree also lacked detail a lot. You should work on the computers and the other details there. The tree was a nice touch (good spot for an easter egg) too.

+/- Layout/Weapon Placement. The layout was ok, I liked the ability to get inside the ships, although I think, that the large open area with the AT-ATs was a bit neglected in terms of layout. It's more of a dead-end, than a main battle arena. I'd definately make it into a major chokepoint of the map, rather than just an area for show. And speaking of getting into the ships - you could make it a bit harder, involving some puzzles, etc, maybe even traps to spice things up a bit.
I also agree with the others on weapon placement. Only gauss/grenades ain't gonna work. Add more weapons. And I'd also suggest somehow letting the player see, what he's gonna pick up. A sprite above the weapon dispencer, with the names of the items, or even better - different kinds of dispencers (different ones for small/medium/big weapons, grenades, healthkits/batteries, etc) would be really awesome.

- Texturing. Yah.. Hope you'll change it soon.

- Ambience. The sounds from the actual movie were very nice, although I agree with CP here. Multiple sounds, triggered randomly are the best way to go. And don't forget the other ambience, like computer/gadget sounds, etc.

- Lighting. Needs major improvements. A futuristic sci-fi enviroment gives you full freedom in lighting. Experiment with different colours for different areas. That'll give your map some contrast and help the players navigate. The outside area could use a more light-blue lighting, rather than the bland white.

Overall - this looks very promising. Add more interactiveness, puzzles/traps, etc. - and you've got yourself a great map.

Use The Hammer, Luke.

Heh.. Always wanted to say that. ^^

I agree with all of your layout comments. I'm currently rebuilding/redesigning the whole layout from scratch. While I prototyped the whole layout in a matter of hours on the first version, this new one is taking me a lot more time. Hopefully that means it will be a lot better!

I like the idea of having small/medium/Large weapon depots, but I'm still not sure how i'm going to do the weapons in the end. There will also be health/shiled chargers, and some more doodads, as well hidden/difficult to get weapons.

I like the idea of Traps and Puzzles, and it's something I have to spend more time thinking about. I was going to make probots come out and instantly kill you if you made it under the ATATs legs, but in the new version of the map, The ATATs are going to be completely inaccesible.

I have a whole host of custom sounds I recorded from the first half-hour of the movie, and plan to have them in different areas of the map. One is Chewey screaming when you walk into the Falcon Hangar

Thanks for the useful comments!!1!

"The ATATs are going to be completely inaccesible."

or how about... YOU CAN GET IN THEM! PEW PEW!

I thought about putting another ATAT at the back of the Hoth base that was deserted, and you could crawl in there, thereby: PEW PEW! PEW PEW..

Unfortunately, the map is too big already, and I plan on shrinking it even smaller than the latest version of Hothworld v2--see thread.

It would however, be cool to test making the whole head the func_tank laster and see how it would behave with the user inside... *rowleybob twirls his mustachio and laughs quietly.

Someday when I finish v2, I plan on adding more tank lasers on some of the speeder/xwing props--like anakin in the hanger of the control ship from episode I--, and a couple different ones on the falcon.

Dm_Hothworld v2 WIP:

http://rowleybob.googlepages.com/dm_hothworldv2.zip