Journal #8488

Out classes mine in all but the graphics card. I don't like that. I suggest you don't get it and I maintain my position as king of PC.

In all seriousness though, that seems like a very reasonable price at around £1270 GBP. Should easily run max settings on any modern title.

Couldn't tell you about 3D rendering though I'm afraid.

Haha. Well, that is what I would like to get, but I can't afford it at all right now. So the price could even decrease in the course of time (which is exactly what I'm hoping.)

Thanks for your feedback, Urbeh. Maybe Archie or someone else could tell me something about 3D rendering.

Same CPU as mine, so now we can be eskimo bros!? This is quite an upgrade from your current system, happy for you m8!

Haha. Yeah CapT, but I was just looking at how much I would have to spend. I don't know if I can actually purchase such a build. Not now at least, that's for sure. So, before considering it an "upgrade" from my current system or "being happy" for me, it's still very early to say.

I can probably just purchase a temporary 100€ pre-built used PC I've seen on a site some days ago, and I'm still not sure if I can find 100€ for it lol. Which would still be better than my current one (like, a lot, actually...)
Just because I need a new PC so bad.

Is this a pure gaming rig ?

If so get a Haswell core i5 since you won't be getting any benefit from an i7.
I can't tell what kind of a panel that monitor uses, but from the looks of it its TN which is utter crap for colors, better put in the money for a 120hz panel that will make your games run smoother than a baby's ass or get an IPS panel that your eyes will enjoy looking at.

Swap that WD Green for something better, like WD Black or Sea Barracuda.
A 120gb SSD is now borderline in terms of "enough space", strongly consider 200+ gb

Thank you for reminding me I myself need to upload my monitor Ruf, maybe if I get a letter out to Santa quick..

Can you recommend a particular model/brand you think is decent? Also, would you recommend going bigger than 23" or is it not worth it?

[/hijack]

Its a preference thing, i find it that if the resolution is 1080p and its over 24 inches its just a small TV at that point. I would only recommend going over if you need 1440p or higher.

Of the top of my head i don't have any particular monitor in mind, LG makes decent affordable IPS'es.

yeah you should try out 120hz screens, but better get a laptop since the end is near u wanna be portable

I would not waste money on crappy head phones and cheap ass mouse.
That is a whole lot money for an 120GB SSD, for that much you should be able to find an 240GB one.
That seems to be a good case for the money. Holy shit that RAM is expensive.
The motherboard is great.

Also, go for 4000 series of processors, that's my recommendation.

Yeah rufee, I know that an i5 would be a better choice than an i7 if it's just for gaming, but I've already stated that I would like it to be good for both gaming and 3D rendering (and compiling, if that matters.) Otherwise I'd have changed the RAM to 8 GB instead of 16, and an i5 instead of an i7.

Then, for the monitor, I thought that the one I've chosen looks pretty decent, being a gaming monitor. These are the specs: Linky

I'm not very acknowledged on monitors, but 158€ is a pretty good price for such a monitor. If you think that this monitor isn't that good, would you be able to recommend me a better one with a similar price? Also because I've always used cheap and crap monitors for, approximately, 15 years; so I think that this one would be a lot better anyway, according to my personal experience with monitors. But I'd be glad if you could suggest me a better one in any case.

Thanks for your thoughts, rufee.

@Bruce: Laptop? No way.

@Stojke: I'm trying to save as much as I can. Actually, that RAM is one of the cheapest; 16 GB Corsair Vengeance Red (the one with high profile) was like over 200/220€. And I don't need more than this for an SSD to be honest, and that one is one of the cheapest too. 4000 series for i7 is probably too much for me. I don't even know if I can afford that one; that build is just "experimental".
I'm trying to save as much as I can without compromising the overall quality of the build (I want it to last at least 5 years.)

Also: crappy headset and cheap mouse? D: Do you really want to know how much costs my current headset and mouse? They both can't reach 30 € toghether lol. Roccat don't make shit stuff, that's for sure.

LG monitors were very good once upon a time, but from what I've heard lately, everything LG sucks.

Samsung makes the best screens as long as they're not smart TVs. Actually, the screens are probably good on those too, it's just the rest (that being firmware) that's terrible.

I think Bruce was being cheeky, alluding to the rise of the machines

I'm very happy with the i7. I can multitask like a banshee and my mapping compiles are lightning fast, but also I'm not a big gamer, so...

Stu: good to know, I'll check out some samsungs

Bruce: do you think honey oil will still exist after the fall? I better start stocking up right now, just in case

Any workstation system you could build would double as a more than enough gaming system anyways.
If you really care about using your system for workstation work, don't skimp on the CPU, graphics card or monitor. LCD\LED monitors may seem super awesome compared to whatever you may compare them to, but they could end up having terrible color reproduction and fucking up everything you make. Your memory seems fine, though.
If perhaps you want to go a more hybrid route, GPU raytracing can yield ridiculous performance increase for very good quality, but you would need to get a graphics card with more memory.

Looks sexual! New system brofist!

what is honey oil? like some kinda marijuana? who needs that?

I'm not sure I understand your suggestion, Elliot. Are there any options besides LCD/LED? Because CRTs have been out of production for almost a decade.

I meant a high quality LCD\LED panel, not just any random 'gaming' one.

For rendering you want pure processing power and a good amount of RAM. The graphics card doesn't count in that equation at all but it helps with the in-editor stuff. Other than that, you're good.

If money is problem than never buy all the components from shops.
You can get multiple components for cheaper, such as:

Processor, RAM, Graphics, Computer Case

That you can be 100% sure that they are fully functional.
I bought 4GB Geil Ultra plus DDR3 RAM for 20 euro in 2012 when the price was 110 euro, it was almost brand new.

You pretty much can not get screwed over with CPU and RAM (if they ran at default clock and were not OC'd) , some people tend to sell older high end cases for cheap, and they are usually in great condition, and people import graphics cards from different countries for cheaper with warranty.

Spending 150 euro on mouse and headphones from a store is an extreme waste.

Well if you are making a hybrid system, then save up some cash and get a 4770K and atleast 16GB or RAM.

Yeah and as Stojke suggested throw those crap roccats out the window.
Get a Logitech mouse, even the cheapest ones will last you forever and its not like you are going to need more than 800dpi anyway. Steelseries were good until they stopped producing Xai.

Audio from integrated devices will be of average quality. Getting headphones from a dedicated headphone company is always a better choice.

I've got a pair of Pioneer SE-M290(the over the ear cup type, with bass ducts) I've paid about 30 euro. Best damn bang for buck, I have them since 2012 and they're still rocking. The sound is awesome for the money too. But an audio card can make the difference. They certainly sound better on my Asus Xonar DS( ~40ish euro) than on my onboard laptop sound card.

I'm not an audiophile, just a normal music listener, so take my opinion as it is.

To be fair, this system is not a work system, it is his personal system. He's allowed to waste money for something that suits his style better than some rigid, purpose built office peripherals, even if it doesn't have perfect price to performance ratio like you guys calculate with your super sophisticated math. You can't calculate personal enjoyment or style with a calculator.

You'd be better off trying to explain to the kids that buy $300 hoodies and $600 shoes (then complain about being poor) why their choices aren't practical and waste a lot of money.
([u][b]And since I'm going to get 30 responses about those two prices, they're exaggerations, hyperbole (the number 30 was as well). Use some common sense.[/u][/b])

That's just the thing Eliot-chan, he does not have a lot of money, that's why he should invest smart.

I don't have any money and I still buy things I want. You're so conservative and rigid, relax.

you god damn japanese pervert burn in hell!

Edit: Nevermind

He is buying a computer, not a dolly, he will use it every day.
Instead of blowing it all on something inferior, invest in a smart way and use it fully.

I know you love me Bruce senpai

Damn guys...

You're confusing me quite a lot now lol. A lot of different opinions has been said here, but what I really should do?

To be honest though, I prefer it to be a quality rig, and I would like to play games more than modding, actually.
I've missed so much titles since 2008 because I couldn't afford a sufficiently good PC to be able to run them properly; so I would just like to sit there and play as long as my playing experience is full before coming back again to the modding world.
Let's just say that I fucking miss PLAYING first.
I'm stuck with a crappy netbook that can barely run DirectX 9 games. For instance: CS:S runs at 15 fps with the lowest possible settings with additional performance boost configurations, so I don't want to play it for obvious reasons.
I have a list of 112 games on Steam, and I still have to play at least half of them because I've never had the chance to do it.
So, being sick of this situation, that hybrid system should satisfy me more in the gaming aspect rather than the modding aspect. Of course I don't need a 3000 € pc to be able to make any kind of mod for Goldsource or any version of Source engines, being the only engines that I know the most (I can do something with Unreal Engines 1, 2, and 3 but I'm not sufficiently acknowledged.)

I've personally tried the Roccat Kova + gaming mouse of a friend of mine, and I must say (regarding of some of your comments about it) that it actually fits my preferences than any other mouse out there (the ones I've tried, of course). I also tend to use low sensivity with every mouse. Roccat Kova + have 3600 maximum DPI, so I just simply lower the OS's mouse sensivity, and the in-game one to be able to have a beast precision (according to my standards [600-800 DPI mice]). I also don't like ergonomic mice of any kind, just for your info.
I come (like many of you) from an era where I was used to use those mice with the ball... So I just look at those new mice with a dazed face somehow.

I also like to listen to music, so, having a clean and good quality sound would do the trick. I prefer headsets instead of headphones with a separate microphone because I want to be comfortable without having stuff on my desk other than a keyboard, a mouse (plus mousepad) and a monitor. Nothing else.

I want to thank everyone that helped me (and confused me haha). :3
Now that you know a bit more about my preferences, please leave your thoughts. It would help me out quite a lot.

I would like to deepen the Stojke's economic method though. Shouldn't be that bad imho.

P.S.: Sorry for my english.

For how long do you think of having this machine before you change ?

Judging by what you have now it will be a long time so get a 4770K and you will be happy for at least another 5 years, even more if the technological advancement continues to decline as we reach the 1 nm mark.

Ive had a q6600 and 560ti for 5 years and i can still play most of the games on decent settings on 1080p.

Ask Archie for his old rig, maybe he will give it to you

You need a dual core 2.5-3GHZ cpu, with 1-2GB ram and an 8800GTX or GTS 250 to run modern games. You would literally have to be trying to make a system that couldn't run games well.

I really recommend to first do a search of used parts.
I searched for 5 minutes and found two AMD R9 290 graphics cards with 2 years local warranty (boxed) for 270 euro. Here is one link: R9 290

Yeah I know rufee, the problem is if can actually spend that much... I'm confused. :/

And, holy shit, Archie's old rig? That would be awesome in anyway!

@Elliot: I've had something like this a while ago, but most of the hardware got broken in 2008.
I've had an AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ (3.1 Ghz Dual Core), 2 GB Ram OCZ Reaper 1066 Mhz, Asus EN 8800 GTS 512 MB, and a Seagate Barracuda 500 GB Sata 2.
The CPU got broken fast because 3 or more pins got stuck inside the socket (don't ask me why or how.) PSU and HDD went in overheat. The only things I could've save was the VGA and RAM (I still have them.)

I've been unlucky with PCs in my whole life. :/

@Stojke: I don't know mate, I've always had problems with AMD video cards. I'm not sure if I want to purchase another one once again. :/

There's problems and faults in both manufacturers. If anything I've found Nvidia to make more major fuckups then AMD, especially in terms of keeping up with technology which is a big nono. (Nvidia FX lineup and NVidia 200 series)

Maybe back in 1990 ATI had drivers problems, but who the fuck is using a Rage II nowadays anyways? But I digress.

And yes, that is my cpu but I have more memory, a better graphics card and hard drive. The only games that do not run well on high settings 1680x1050 are terribly coded console ports. Even when I was running my older GTX 280 (therefore my knowledge of aforementioned technology issues), metro 2033 ran fine on high.

Seriously though, get what you want.
Your system there is solid enough and if you wish to make some minor tweaks you can easily simply change a few things, don't feel pressured to conform to other people's personal preferences.

Yeah, definitely just buy what you think is best value and don't let other people's opinions confuse you too much.

What I do is look at benchmarks to see what the better value between different things are. I use http://videocardbenchmark.net. (The same company has a CPU benchmark site too)

For example, using two cards mentioned on this page:

GeForce GTX 970 - 8648 points - €363 (new) = 23.8 points per €
AMD R9 290 - 6530 points - €270 (used) = 24.2 points per €

We can see from this example that a new GTX 970 is almost exactly the same value as a used R9 290, so it's probably better to get the GTX 970 based on this example. You want to get the best value for money - sometimes that might mean spending a bit more, but it will last longer and give you better return on your investment in the long term.

There is the cheaper option - AMD.
Can't tell you much about it because i never had an AMD cpu or gpu, but i heard it makes for a good budget gaming rig. FX-8350 costs as much as an i5 and has 8 cores if you decide to render things, albeit they are not truly 8 core as they say, but it performs admirably. Its also a tad on the hot side, but when have ever AMD cpu's been cool

As they say, its all up to you to decide what do you like and what do you want to buy.

But you can also take every ones info into thought and do some research - Why would I buy used part? Why should I go for AMD graphic? Will cheaper brand headphones benefit me less? Etc.

Each will have an + and - in your book and doing such research will help you grasp on things much more easily in the future to decide what do you want for your self.
You have all these information in front of you, make some knowledge out of it before making your decision.

The main problem is that everyone of you here is actually right.

So I feel like I have to clarify some more things, just to let you know why I prefer this instead of that and so on.

• I prefer Nvidia rather than AMD because I've always had problems with AMD video cards; such as drivers, Catalyst random crashes, artifacts in 3D games, fucked up shadows, fog and other particle effects decreasing FPS by a big amount (30-40 approx), specularity on surfaces/textures not loading or being neutral/white, etc...).

I also prefer Nvidia because it has Nvidia 3D Vision and some other things that AMD doesn't have.
I've had 4 different AMD video cards, and all of them gave me problems. And I've had 3 different Nvidia video cards. I've never had any problem with them in any possible way. That's probably why they costs more than AMD ones (same thing with AMD CPUs.)
My last AMD video card was an ATI Radeon HD 3650 512 MB (could be compared with an half-way of Nvidia 8600-8800 I guess, in terms of performance) and I remember having many problems, most of them with drivers and Catalyst.

I prefer to purchase new things because of the warranty. Used stuff, most of the times, doesn't have warranty.

I don't like how AMD CPUs are built; they look more fragile than Intel ones (like the pins story I've told you in my previous post), and their coolers are utter shit as I keep messing up when I have to unmount and mount them to reapply the thermal paste, or just for a common full PC cleanup every 2-3 months or so. It's a pain in the ass for me to be honest.

So yeah, since we all arrived at a point where the current build I've made isn't bad, I want to thank you all for your comments and valuable suggestions. They will sure help me out in my future build as this is just a test. I'll probably change some things with better ones in the course of the time as the prices keeps decreasing.

One last question for you guys: is still good/better to do triple channel with RAM? I've heard it's faster. Though it's hard to find motherboards that makes you do triple channel nowadays, as far as I know.

P.S.: Don't worry Urbeh, my next GFX configuration will be a Quad SLI of GTX TITAN Z all overclocked! So I will be the "King of PC"! Muahahaha! <3

You're confusing me quite a lot now lol. A lot of different opinions has been said here, but what I really should do?

That's like asking so many people who know/don't know about Borderline Personality Disorder and asking them whether to give your cheating BPD girlfriend a chance or not, knowing she can do it again and etc and just fuck your emotional life up entirely. Trust me, it's meant to confuse you.

No that I'm aware of IPS monitors, I'll DEFINITELY be saving my pennies for one

These hardware discussions are always so popular, maybe it's own forum might be beneficial in the future? Also might bring s'more fresh blood to the site...

The whole pc life

Imagine this, a pin on the motherboard breaks (Intel), unless it was a power supply pin you are out of luck. AMD however you just stick a pin in the socket and you are good to go.

GPU's have come a long way since the 8000 series days and AMD no longer has issues. But anyway this is a common thing, people get bad luck with Nvidia they say AMD is better and vice versa.

I'd rather buy a laptop today, but if I were to build a desktop PC, I'd try getting used parts that were high-end like in ~2010, because I always wondered how people don't realize hardware doesn't really degrade. And most games are crap nowadays anyway. Id also try to make it efficient and quiet and durable, no watercooling crap like now

and for the peripherals, yeah cheapest ones are the best, generic optical mouse, crappy 4:3 monitors are actually great for oldschool gaming like hl, quake, cs, they got fast response and usually ~80hz

This might be the last active journal topic before Judgement day, keep it going!

I would like to upgrayedd my desktop pc, i.e., buy a brand new one, but I think I will copy bruce and buy a nice gaming laptop instead.. I never buy the warranty for anything but for something like this... I'm not sure what to do.

I personally hate laptops. So this is not gonna happen at all.