New competition idea, Remake "bad" map Created 18 years ago2006-02-18 12:52:41 UTC by Xyos212

What I mean is remake fy_iceworld to play the same, but actually make sense and look good. Maybe put it in a city, but same game play aspects. Same with Aim_AK_colt. Make them make sense where you are fighting and look good. Just an idea trying to be original. It could go from HL1 to Source. Since they are small more detail and time can be put into the visuals. What do ya think?

I am planning on doing a remake of cs_mansion with a style similar to Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie houses. Iceworld seems a bit too small to produce any coherent or noteworthy remakes, I dont know...

The gameplay in fy_iceworld definately was fun, the graphics werent. I beleive its worth the upgrade if you can make it look puuurty, add some verticle action too, like being able to get on top of the structures.

fy_iceworld = shit
Nuff said.

In terms of mapping, yes.

In terms of popularity and fun, absolutely not. Fy maps are sort of like DM for cs

Yeah exactly, the gameplay is really fun, I had the time of my life once playing a map that was nothing but a square map with four pillars in it! Looked SHITE, played WELL.

I was thinking about re-making Iceworld in kind of an industrial setting in Source. Putting lots of detail and cool stuff in it. Kind of a side project to have fun with.

BTW Strider I liked your other Avatar better. It was much more pwn

Part of the success of fy_iceworld is the total lack of map detail, so players concentrace only in shooting without distractions. If you were to make a detailed map with an iceworld layout, it wouldnt be as succesful.

Thats not totally true. Its success comes from its small design for quick matches, and weapons on the ground. Re-making it would be purely for fun, not for gameplay. (Im sure some people would appreciate the upgrade.......)

So detail distracts people from shooting? That aint right. Xyos212, do it remake it, id play it, an industrial setting though...? If its snowing/snowed under yeah definately do it.

BTW Strider I liked your other Avatar better. It was much more pwn

Ill just keep changing it, get sick of staring at one for so long.

wow great idea Xyos212, funny how you got it right before to post I am tapping myself with aim_verdun, which is a mix of the crappiest CS maps, awp_map and iceworld...

Just an idea trying to be original

Personnally, I see no idea and no originality into making remakes, especially from crappy maps...

fy_iceworld = shit

+1

In terms of popularity and fun, absolutely not. Fy maps are sort of like DM for cs

sort of poison for CS I'd say, such maps just attract kind of players CS does not need...

Man, do you ever stop complaining about fy maps? Ever?

So detail distracts people from shooting? That aint right.

Actually I kind of agree, I find that if there is a lot of detail in a map, such as the source Assault, I keep getting distracted, where as the original Assault was easy to navigate and didn't catch your eye on little details ending up in you getting pwnt.

i must agree. iceworld is bad because people that go lets say 0 - 20 in a d2 pub will somehow break even in an iceworld pub . well anyway... ill enter the contest if u do have one even though i despise fy map! id still make one i just wont play it

JC, the originality I refer to is the competition idea, not the "remaking of bad maps" as you call it. Maps need to be fun as well as good looking. This simply completes what Iceworld, (and many other maps) should of been. Its easy to lose track and forget that gameplay is key. (Only if you want for multiplayer of course) Detail is also very important as it augments a maps feel, plus shows the work and thought that went into it.
AS for graphics distracting you: Only when its your first time in a new map for about 5 minutes. (I guess people entertained by a shiny nickle would be distraced in CS, right?) After that any owning to you is because you just dont play well.

If Dust looked shite, if it was nothing but single-textured boxes in the layout-shape, would you like it? Detail is second to how a map plays, detail doesnt distract --> it adds to the ambience, its immersion, thus its playability goes ^

not the "remaking of bad maps" as you call it

Hem, no I didn't call anything here but, as always, that maps other that de/cs are pure crap, this is your thread title in case you forgot...

I agree that details distract players, and that is in my opinion exactly the point into the success of crappy maps: the more they are simple and the more players like them, because they are lazy, too lazy to search for their enemies (bright maps are more popular than dark maps), too lazy to recognize enemies and allies (aim maps just split them on the opposite sides of a killbox), too lazy to settle strategies (just pick up and frag and die) and too lazy to think they could need to work a lot to do better than the map they are currently playing, that's exactly why such masterpieces of shit like awp_map or iceworld or most dust remakes are popular, because they are simple. And these maps aren't fun: nubs just called them "fun" to give the map an interesting side, because the word "fun" doesn't mean anything and can be used as you need, as some kids who say it's fun to fight with some sticks (until one of them got the eye hurted) or to throw stuff on an animal or to break something, or as people who kill people and say it's sacred, because God told them, to turn an horrible slaughter into an "holy task", come on...

This is not because a pack of morons call something something it is real, and this is not because they are more numerous they are right: "fun" maps are just pieces of shit, and the first sane-minded person who got the eyes open and got some clues about what gaming and mapping is cannot pretend such maps are "fun" or whatever, they are just nubs meat...

If you "improve" them, you will just kill them, because they will requiert more effort from the "players" to "pwn", and they will prefer crappy maps to yours...

A good example of what J.C says is the cs_mansion series of maps. They are just like cs_estate, only with poor lighting and much easier.

J.C. you sound like an overly serious CS player, some people find simple maps fun, some dont. I like some stages simple, just because they are that way. Aim maps simplify gameplay, they are fun - obviously not to you but to many people. I myself made sandfort for CS:S, it was essentially a box with four more boxes within it, though i took time to adjust its looks, it plays well and looks well.

In terms of popularity and fun, absolutely not. Fy maps are sort of like DM for cs

sort of poison for CS I'd say, such maps just attract kind of players CS does not need...

What type of players are those? People looking to have fun. NO CS doesnt need that, it needs overly-serious players who whine about campers and spray custom decals everywhere [sarcasm btw]. Having fun is more important than testing your hopping/shooting stratergies. Simple, fun maps rule. I hate playing typical CS maps when im looking to have fun, they are too burdoning, when having fun is all you want.

Yes plenty of basic fun maps look crap, thats obvious but the well-graphiced ones that play as well as the ugly ones are both fun and good to look at - whats wrong with that? Simplicity is brilliant.

CS players want to play crappy maps, and any attempt to bring some "quality" or whatever will just be considered as an attack to their little shit world, and you will just be kicked like hell until you give up.

If you think quality, originality or whatever, don't think CS, you will just waste your time. Yes smart CS players exist, but they aren't, in my opinion, enough numerous and especially brave to justify the ammount of work you could put into these maps and support you, unless you consider as "originality" the fact to just throw dozens of high-quality models and props and whatever into crappy maps ...

They do not want to play crappy maps they want to play fun maps, who the hell said fun maps had to look shit? And who the hell is talking about originality? It does not have to be original as long as it plays well and looks good. If we were all concerned about originality no one would play CS, it itself is a tried and tested formula!

JC, do you actually think that if a mass audience calls a map "fun" that it will influence others to think the same? Playing the map with others determines fun. You cant force someone to believe what they are doing is fun, thats stupid. I personally love custom detailed maps that took time and effort. (The only good one ive came upon online was de_rats) I remember once in HL1 I downloaded a really cool looking nicely made movie theatre map. It was well done, and had cool features and custom textures, but it played like crap! No one would join it, and the ones who did explored, played 2 rounds, then quit. Iceworld is fun, but it took about 5 minutes to make.

The point of this thread was to have a competition to take these fun, but shitty looking maps and use our skills to better them. Maybe the winner version would catch on online? I think this is a good idea for a contest. :) Just decompile the chosen map, get the proportion, delete all of it, and start mapping! This could be done in Source, and HL1! Since the maps are simple, more time could go into it. COME ON GUYS, LETS DO THIS!!!!! :)

Anonymous member: "I agree, lets do it!"
2nd Anonymous member: "I second that! DO IT!"
3rd Anonymous member: "Give me one of those things, you know, oh ya, give me one cheeseburger!" (That means do this competition)

nothing with those n00bish vehicles.

The point of this thread was to have a competition to take these fun, but shitty looking maps and use our skills to better them. Maybe the winner version would catch on online?

It just so happens i am remaking an old map that many people like, aswell as dislike. C'mon try to guess what it is...

Anonymous member: "I agree, lets do it!"
2nd Anonymous member: "I second that! DO IT!"
3rd Anonymous member: "Give me one of those things, you know, oh ya, give me one cheeseburger!" (That means do this competition)

Eh? Cheesburger?

A good Counter Strike map must be fun/good layout, but at the same time be nicely made. My favriote map of all time is cs_assault.

lol

JC, do you actually think that if a mass audience calls a map "fun" that it will influence others to think the same? Playing the map with others determines fun. You cant force someone to believe what they are doing is fun, thats stupid. I personally love custom detailed maps that took time and effort.

You are obviously totally new into the CS community then...

That is not true. My gaming clan (8 members) and my other clan (4 members) hate maps that are ugly.

Yes, and as you said you are 12 guys... I know there are some players and clans who are still interested into playing new and good quality maps, but they are really a minority...

Wow JC im not new to the CS comminity. Been playing for about 6 years. People dont "think" a map is fun, they know it is because its fun! Thats what I was saying. A maps popularity is from the fun it brings. Stop over-judging things. You shouldnt make assumptions about people or their thoughts either..........

Crappy maps are not fun, the game is: When players are playing in a killbox, they don't enjoy the map, they just enjoy the game: Killboxes are nothing but the straightest way to play the game basics themselves, free from any annoyances real maps put but which creates the level design (the map personnality) and the gameplay (the map rules), and the easiest way for (mapper) nubs to put themselves between the game and players and say "look at me, I did a fun map!!", I can't believe you still didn't understand that if you're really playing the game for so much years...

It's funny you're talking about assumptions, you're obviously not in position to give me any orders...

Killboxes really ruin level desiging in general for me. When I see something that would've taken me about 3 nanoseconds to build and compile getting increasingly popular over another map which looks and plays well, it just shits me. It isn't fair to good level designers who have spent lots of time on something that is incredibly good only to have it shot down by some 11 year old idiot because its not to their "standards".

Once again JC you over anylize things. I JUST SAID all of what you just said! Gameplay is FUN! Thats what gameplay is about. YOu know your acting like a fool, and cant admit to it. Restating what I JUST SAID and saying I didnt say it is kinda stupid. Sigh..........................

Ant, are you suggesting all Killbox-styled maps look and play shit? Not all do obviously, thats one of the reasons why fy_iceworld was so stupidly succesful it had a nice simple but easily and well playable layout - its problem is that it obviously looked shit, but if it looked awesome then it would definately be worth the download in my mind. Good looks and good gameplay, nothing wrong with that, add source physics and shaders and i'd say it would be awesome.

Why? To much detail. That map confuses and becomes unplayable.

hahahahahha!If they are that stupid they should re-consider playing CS!