Journal #6142

Oh, so the government just pulls this money out of thin air? I don't think you understand how economics work.

There's this thing called taxes. Americans pay significantly less taxes than most modern countries do, and this is because we don't have many socialized policies (minus Social security, medicare / medicaid, but I will address these). One thing Americans hate is paying taxes, which we are going to have to increase anyways because of Social Security.

Americans are aging because of the baby boom, so in the next few years, the Social Security system is going to be stretched beyond it's limits. On top of this is Medicare, Medicaid, and a few other hand outs the US likes to give people (see: unemployment). America is already fucked because of this and the recession, so the question is: why bring on more things to pay for?

Only the backwood retards are calling Obama a Communist, and that's because they lack better terminology (... and because they're backwood retards). The main concern against health care is the cost, and it's just something many Americans don't want to deal with.

Then there's the question of morality, etc. Spoiler alert: Americans are cheap and selfish. In case you haven't noticed.

I'm particularly on the fence about socialized health care. In all honesty I just don't care what happens.

"Oh, so the government just pulls this money out of thin air? I don't think you understand how economics work."
ahem
"I don't care that it will add a few bucks to your annual taxes."

It doesn't need to be a high tax, I doubt it adds to canadian taxes much, and if anything, it would lower the taxes because there are more americans.
(yes, I know that means more need healthcare too, but still)

I was trying to add as you so rudely ninja'd me:

HOWEVER: Obama's plan isn't even a completely "socialized healthcare" system. His plan provides other options to Americans to compare to their current provides and creates competitiveness in the market. There is actually very little socialism involved.

As for your remarks:

Another problem people are dealing with, as you mentioned, is the size of this country. The US has over 300 million people. That's 10 times more than Canada, and 5 times more than Britain (using them as they also have socialized healthcare).

The issue could be that socialized medicine only works there because of the size. When going into the several hundred million people it gets a little more than just a little tricky.

Now I can't get into how much of Canada's tax goes into healthcare because I just don't know the figures, but I know for a fact taxes wouldn't "lower" because there's more. I understand you mean it should cost less per person then it does in Canada, but then you have to remember that because population increased, while it's more people to pay for care, this also means that there's more people to get sick, too.

And also judging by the way Americans live, with their shorter life expectancies and bad eating habits, Americans are going to pay out of their ass to help all of the obese, diabetic, smoking lung cancer patients, and generally lazy people. Americans are Americans, and I highly doubt they will change. They'll just say "hey, 'free' healthcare, that means I can get fatter and be alright."

But as I said, Obama's plan isn't even socialized healthcare, so what the fuck are you talking about?

Luke knows what hes talking about.

Holy shit.

But no really, he does.

Finally, I was wondering when somebody was going to bring up Obama's public option health care reform. Man, you'd two are really going at it with all this typing, so carry-on gentlemen.

Personal opinion: The way Obama is headed right now, I'm afraid he is going to be a one term president. Come-on people,...especially all of you non-Americans: The American people do not want or like their government to tell them which doctor to go see, or which medical plan to use, period!

Oh, and to make matters worst, there is this fucked-up provision being pushed in the U.S. Congress by Obama's people basically saying that all Americans will be forced to have some type of medical coverage, regardless if they can't afford it or not. And any that don't get it, will get hit with a fine of over $1,000! Oh boy....

They could at least give funding to hospitals so the don't all close down.

I know, being from a country that uses Socialized healthcare, that free medical attention does work, both on a 'personal' level and economically. I may be biased towards it, but you can't argue that it's a bad idea. It'd be like arguing that free education is a bad idea.

Where are you getting this information? Where are these hospitals shutting down and why?

Aren't they? Isn't everything shutting down from the economy?

I dunno anymore... :/

If so, you're suggesting a bailout. Universal healthcare does not mean pumping money into hospitals just to keep them afloat.

"Bailout" is starting to become a dirty word these days in the U.S.....

When was it not a dirty word?

D'oh!

You got me there, World Crafter.

In Australia, we have a Medicare system, this works buy some of bill being payed for by the government and the rest by you. Every tax time, people get charged a medicare levy, which get's taken out of their tax according to how much they earn. EVERYONE paysthis tax unless they have their own private health insurance, but even then, they are still covered basically by Medicare Also, any emergency arrival at hospital is free of charge. So if you are in a car crash, suffering a heart attack, or are generally put in an unexpected life threatening situation, you do not pay for services rendered.

so is the point of this like:

in America you get hurt really bad or you need surgery, etc, etc... with out proper health care or insurance cover you screwed where as in other countries your all set with the health care systems.

right?