Old TWHL vs new TWHL Created 18 years ago2006-01-30 21:09:44 UTC by Soup Miner

To recognize our growing amount of flaws I have decided to hold a grudge match.

Old TWHL:
-Mappers mapped for fun
-Mappers were more than willing to help someone
-Anonymous posting
-"Spam thread" was not something loked down upon
-The phrease "good times" comes to mind
-Fellow mappers gave constructive critisism on other maps

New TWHL:
-Mappers only care about a good looking map
-Experienced mappers either ignore posts by those who need help or give them a link to google
-Lack of anonymous posting has overrun the website with incoherent noobs
-Anything attempt at making a fun thread is deemed a "spam thread" and is either ignored or closed
-The phrase "roughin' it" comes to mind
-Fellows mappers say other maps suck

The winner! Old TWHL! Screw all you jerks who used to make TWHL fun! now you just talk crap and get angry with people, celebrate!

One of Andy's journal entries:

Having cleaned out my Journal I figured I should put something in it.
Recent discussions around the community involve "Mod teams going Pro".
Good or Bad?

Bad as far as I am concerned.

Ages ago someone said that with the source engine we would be able to produce brilliant maps without much skill.
That is almost right, sure the eye candy is there, but a map needs to be playable and fun to be considered successful.
So I have to ask myself where all these brilliant maps are? And where are all the brilliant mods?

When I first found TWHL, I mapped for fun... I made rooms that had a metal shelf so I could bang my crowbar on it.. That was the joy of mapping.
Somewhere along the line I got far too involved in design and forgot about fun, I chased the 'look' rather than the play.
I have critisied peoples maps, and now am embarrased by my judgement, after all.. Who am I to judge?
I have written tutorials and articles, not just here at TWHL but in the wider community and none of them mention the most important aspect of Design...
Regardless of what it looks like, if the person playing it is having fun then you have created a great map.

Time to tell the Purists to FarrrkOfff. That includes me

So what has that got to do with the percieved professionalism of Mod teams?
If you have to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement before they let you in, then they are obvioulsy missing the point.
ALL the Non Valve mod's that have been successful were started by a bunch of guy's having fun. They built levels and got them out there to test them with the people that really mattered.. the players.
Your peers may judge your design work and call it crap, but if the punters are playing it and having fun, who gives a toss?

After scrapping GTLS, I decided to map for fun. I created a small DoD War map and got it on a server. Two weeks later I released the second version...that ironed out the really bad bugs that the players pointed out.
That map remained on the No 1 rated server in Australia for two months, was a permanent fixture in the rotation and proved a clan war favorite.
Why didn't I post it here?
It was crap poorly designed and lackluster...

So next time someone tells you your textures are badly aligned... ignore them, and let the players not the mappers, judge your work.

old FTW

It's just the newness of the Source engine that's causing this dichotomy.

Overtime, new will become old, and all will be well again.

Human nature doesn't change, and neither will the new members. They won't stay as n00bs.

No they won't stay as noobs, they will turn into people who just question everything and call spam on everything, it will cripple the whole community.

Maybe their mommies didn't love them?

I think time will work out all the flaws.

If not, then you can take out the big boomstick and start cracking some n00b heads. Yes, I'll admit I'm a n00b and feel free the crack my head when I act like one.

[quote]They won't stay as n00bs.[quote]

I disagree. I know quite a few 'n00bs' who have been around for quite a while.

I won't mention any names.



Oh yeah, and old TWHL pwnz this shit.

Old TWHL was very good.

Jax <3

I love myself too

When did this "new" versus "old" begin? I mean, how long ago do you consider as the "old" TWHL? B.S. (Before Source)?

B.H

Before Hab... never mind.

See for yourself: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://cariad.co.za/twhl/

2003 was a golden year. Rightly so too, it was the year I joined.

I second that...

2003 ftw!

The good times for the time I was here was september 2005, People helped me and were nice in rating my first and second me. Even though they may not have been the good times I would like it still to be like that, when n00bs posted in the right section and wern't so n00bish but yeah.

Well its not just noobs that post crap.

Ive been here over 2 years and I still act like a noob

Well, we gave you a cookie for that 3 years ago didnt we

I tried to find my old Dr. Phil av but I couldn't find it

/me just put my old av back on...

What are you on about? That was a month ago :|.

Stop being daft, the golden times of TWHL are not passed.

Worldcraft dude is right.
And I won't comment it because I've myself ignored those who needed help etc.

Remember this topic?
http://twhl.co.za/forums.php?action=viewthread&str=Nihilanth&type=1&pg=3&id=2745
Quite a popular discussion back in the day, even if it wasn't really on topic. Other than the fact that it was bumped and later closed, what would most of you consider a topic like this as today? I bet I know some of your answers COUGH*MOP*COUGH, phew. Sorry, had to clear my throat

I cant safely say that back during "old TWHL" I spent the majority of my forum browsing time in the help section either asking a question of answering one. Now I hardly ever go there.

PS: Crystalman, old TWHL ended long before you joined.

People could spell back in the days.
The "fun" threads today go something like
"whats is teh collor of ur favorit hat lmao!"

That's just annoying. Wellwritten topics, atleast I, will never deem as spam.

They won't stay as n00bs.

They will.

A nub is supposed to be a nub his whole life : a nub is somebody lazy and stupid who just come to spam some ideas, post some dull comments like "gg!!" about others maps to try to make friends, post dozens of "myfirstmap!check it!!" crappy CS maps to try to show he is a "mapper", spam general discussion with mindless posts like "what's your favorite" topics and "yeah" or "haha" replies to raise his posts counter and try to look like an old member and that's all, a nub is somebody who will never understand anything, who will never bring anything worthy to the community : if a nub can learn, can agree that he is new, doesn't know everything, that his first ideas are just off-topic and has to learn, understand what older mappers tell to him, do maps that become better and better with updates and time, he is not a nub, he is a beginner, which is completely different.

Nubs are just nolife talentless people that just hop from game to game to spam on forums, never understand anything, endlessly got kicked and go act like a lamer somewhere else, everytime they got pwned in a game, they think their opponents cheat and use cheats themselves for crappy reasons, they download decompilers to make dust remakes, once they did a frag, a kill, something in a game, they think they dal337pwnorizor, once they did something they call a "map", they are dapro, they know everything etc, they are the plague of internet...

I kinda agree with J.C but I do think he's a bit overacting.

Anyway:

What is the use of this constant whining of 'the old TWHL was way better'..
If you're anoyed at bad spelling, dumb questions and useless spam then do something about it! I mean, are we going to be a community or not?

Also, what is it with all that whining about spelling problems?
I mean, as simple as you guys may find it, I find english rather hard sometimes. But I try and I'm understand able, still, I make thousands of little spelling errors.. What's the big deal of that?

I can understand poeple are anoyed at talk like 'lol, I wus like teh best mappah in the world1!113123!' but damn, there will always be idiots.

Take 'coffee' for example (yes, I dare to name..).
Spamming with useless replies and making stupid threads all the time.
I didn't saw once that he was writing about mapping stuff..

Basic line: More mapping, less whining, less spam.

EDIT: Coffee talked about something related to mapping! See, discussions like these do help. 1 by 1..

I liked old twhl...
All those 840 days ago.
There isn't anything wrong with this current TWHL, it's just people like Andy, Slayer A, Steinin, MattyB, Tlax, Cpl. Insane and Black Cat rarely come here if at all, and they where all interesting people, I remember M0ps avatar when I first came which was by far so much better than his current one.

And another thing is, all the people where kind of even, or more even, there weren't such big distinctions between peope as there are now, like the elite mappers are Kasperg and Rimrook etc. And there wasn't such a noobie wave.
And even though there where a lot of spam threads, people still came out with great maps, every one was mapping really and trying to help each other, where as all you really see now is cs maps, which the majority are Aim ones at that, and people flaming them.

/opinion

hehe--> http://www.twhl.co.za/forums.php?action=viewthread&str=TWHL+after+20+years&type=1&pg=1&id=9086

Johnathan (Cpl.1nsane) still pops on IRC. Saw Steinin a week or two ago. Skeeve was on IRC the other night, too.

Nobody remember JB?

TWHL doesn't feel different except that I joined when there were only 250 maps in the completed vault. This place has become popular, and popularity spawns crap because people come and sign up but have no interest in mapping. They prbably think it's cool to fit into a dev community. First of all, sometimes spamming some random thoughts into a forum is fun, but smiley after smiley isn't. I wish I could get back onto IRC, but at school, programs like that are banned.

Rimrook: The Original Old Skoola

Nobody remember JB

Ah, yeh I remember him.

And there is one other "oldie" I am forgetting...I know it...I just can't think of who...

Tlax, Atom, jobabob, the_6th_monkey?

I dont think the site has changed so much in the 567 days I've been here. I still dont read forum post that dont interest me, and neither do I download some of the pointless CS maps that flood the vault. I try to answer forum questions even though my entity knowledge isnt that great, and I try to give tips on how to make potentially good maps be even better. There arent that many conspiracy threads by Jahzel these days, but everything else is similar.

I read all the forum posts, of course, and I don't think that much has changed, although some of the character has faded from the forums and accumulated on IRC. Still missing people like Jahzel, though.

I remember when he first registered.

jobabob too.

ZL: Tlax is still about pretty regularly. 6th seems to have made a comeback, too, seen him a few times recently.

It's hard to leave TWHL, I guess :). Well, jobabob is the exception there. Plus atom himself, heh...

Speaking of absent members, I contacted K7, the author of "Carbaseus" in October. There's a chance he'd release the rmf file of that map for a Source conversion. Anyone interested?

For some reason, people always think that older is better.

We reminesce about the golden era of Jazz and the heroes of past wars (WWII). People were larger than life and with a higher level of ethics. Things were brighter (even though they're black-and-white), and the society more innocent. Government was less corrupt.

But people and human nature seldom change. Twenty years from now, newer members of TWHL will be discussing us and the year 2006 as the golden lost era.

Wine ages with time.

2006 will never be considered the golden era for TWHL simply because it was the year after Jimmi's Reign of Terror. DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN

Steinin, I believe, is who G_kid was talking about.

Tlax is here a lot, he's just not very active.

It still sucks that most of the users fro the "golden age" aren't here anymore, now all we have are stories that we can tell to our grandchildren

TWHL doesn't feel different except that I joined when there were only 250 maps in the completed vault.

When I submitted my first map there were 4 pages of maps

Anyway dwelling upon this clash between old TWHL and the current one I have decided to try to go back to my origins for a while and make a map purely for fun and see what happens.

2004 was the spammy year. Only becuase i joined :>

There's no "new" and "old" TWHL.

You're all full of bullshit.

jaardsi out.

I remember when you were active :/

Come back jaardsi-poo <3 :>

If you're anoyed at bad spelling, dumb questions and useless spam then do something about it! I mean, are we going to be a community or not?

agree, but some members don't like you think another way they do, ok that isn't really the case in this forum, but on most forums there is always a kind of selfproclaimed aristocraty who say what's right and what is not, and the matter of "community" lost its meaning ...

This place has become popular, and popularity spawns crap because people come and sign up but have no interest in mapping

right, but a raising popularity means a raising need of rules if you want to keep things as they are, else yes this slowly becomes the lamers reign : people who do nothing but spam and troll, critizice the last ones who are still trying to do something worthy and approve only retard stuff, I seen that on a lot of (cs related) forums ...

I remember when you were active :/

He's still on IRC all the time.

I just have one thing to say. You people are so AFRAID of spam. You have totaly forgotten what spam is.

This is spam:

"bllalsalaskas
kfdkgdfgdf

Hello im a kitten and i fuck you mama everyday.

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllloooo
hello
hheeeeeeeellllloooo"

That?s spam! not when someone tries to discuss what there favorite drink is in the "GENERAL DISCUSSION" forum. General discussion should be there for general discussion. Just becouse someone doesn?t like it doesn?t mean it?s spam.

And when to people are having a conversation in the shoutbox, and nobody else is using it. They aren?t spamming, they are talking.

Get it?

discuss what there favorite drink is in the "GENERAL DISCUSSION" forum.

Is it just me, or does that sound completely and utterly ludicrous?

That's quite an amazing ability. Some people always find new ways to be annoying.

Replace there with their and it almost works.
I'm not saying gen. disc. is full of spam, I'm saying it's full of boring, useless threads.

I remember when you were active :/

He's still on IRC all the time.

No he's not, he's on WoW all the time. Flapfat.

Oh, sorry about some bad english posted by me.

But don?t you get what im trying to say?

Just try to see that some people like that sort of stuff, we don?t have to post a reply in the thread just to tell them that we don?t like it.

No posts in the thread should do the trick, don?t you think?

The matter is not to like a not a given topic, to call it spam or not, the matter is that some topics obviously come from lonely persons who are trying to get some attention by talking about anything. Again, the matter is not about looking for attention or not, the problem is that those topics are worthless, that even their authors don't care about them, but just keep them alive because somebody pay attention to them, ok that's a kind of trolling (that way ==> http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm ), but I still consider it as spam, as a message I didn't expect to see, that I finally consider off-topic with the forum (which is first dedicated to HL)...

No offense but it just looks like a gathering of stupid people who have nothing to talk about, but still discuss, about anything, just because they don't like the silence...

Steinin, I believe, is who G_kid was talking about.

Ah, nope, I said Stenin in my first post.

Jobabob was the one I was thinking of.

Oh yes, it is a lot of those threads. Don?t get me wrong, i don?t like those, but some people really do enjoy talking about every day stuff.

The threads you just wrote about ARE worthless on that we can all agree, the point i was trying to make is that you so many times mistake an OK thread with a totaly random-topic-bullshit thread.

If you read it you WILL notice if the author is a lonely noob looking for attention or if he wanna talk about something. Like a thread i posted when i was new here "what about it?" it was a totaly useless thread about nothing, my bad, i shouldn?t have posted that one and it was the right thing to do to close it. And all those threads where the author just paste a link to a flash movie, that?s msn/irc/shoutbox material and don?t belong as a single topic. But i see threads like "favorite movie" or "favorite guitar brand" (i don?t think they exist but it?s those kind of threads im talking about now) those kind of threads isn?t spam, that?s a subject to talk about. And those topics often get called spam and useless and get closed. But it?s just general discussion.

There, i think i?ve made my point. I wasn?t being clear on what my point was in my other 2 posts. I was wrighting a longer post and when i pressed "post" i wasn?t logged in anymore so i just wrote a short version of what i was trying to say.

btw, i?ve been wondering a long time why nobody ever called "now playing" spam, is it just because seventh posted them? suck on that one for a while. Seriously, you people should think about that as spam.