Getting stuck on elevator (func_train) Created 18 years ago2006-02-24 03:41:47 UTC by darkphoenix_68

I have a problem with an elevator (a func_train) in my latest HLDM level (Necropolis: Mausoleum, coming soon! ;-)). Basically, you sometimes get stuck on it before reaching the top. (I've seen a couple of levels (and other requests for help) where you get stuck at the top, but it is generally possible to at least wriggle yourself free -- or jump just before you reach the top, if it is a persistent problem!) Of course, since the func_train is set to inflict damage if blocked, you then start taking damage, and die, at which point the elevator starts moving again.

Needless to say, it doesn't happen every time, only occasionally.

I'm almost certain that it happens at the point at which the elevator slows down -- I have a path_corner with a speed reduction at around the point where it happens -- so I guess the simplest solution is to eliminate the speed change. I shall try that in the very near future.

However, I just wondered if anybody had any other ideas? Any alternative approach to this problem?



FWIW, I did a search of the forums and found a couple of posts on related subjects:

In this forum post, Kasperg said:

I dont like saying so, but the best solution to problems with elevators in maps is simply not using them

Which is, unfortunately, just not possible in this particular case. I've only got a small space in which to travel quite a large vertical distance. I originally had ramps, but that was just painful, and some sort of bounce-pad or teleporter wouldn't fit the genre (well, I've already got a stargate or two, but I don't wanna overdo it! :-)) Also, I've never had problems with my other elevators...

In this forum post, JujitsuMan said:

make sure there's plenty of room on for them to stand, it's a half life glitch, not totally your fault. What happens is they didn't put into the engine an ability to make you go smoothly with the elevator, so when your being constantly lifted with the elevator, it puts you inside of it. There's a glitch like that in the actual half life game, the elevator that goes to the surface about 1/4th of the way up

to fix it, just make sure there are railings or an invisible func_wall for the railings, and make sure it's big enough for 2 people to stand on easily

Which makes sense, and makes me think that I really do need to remove that extra path_corner. I'm not sure I understand the suggested solution, unless it's intended to keep people away from the moving edges -- in my case, I often seem to be closer to the middle of the platform when I get stuck, so that doesn't really help...

shrug

Any thoughts?

Necropolis

aww!GOD DAMNIT!I was mapping that, but I give up cause I didnt have the required textures ...but I have some sounds you may like..

I really cant help with the elevator, but my opinion is that any off-theme bounce pad, trigger_push, func_ladders or ramps will be better than a buggy elevator in case you can?t fix it. Good luck!

Good to see you searching the forums before posting.

The same happens in Half-Life (the big elevator, right before you reach the surfase in We've got hostiles).
You sometimes get stuck in it and start taking damage..
Hmm.. Try func_plat or func_door for your elevator, if it goes in one direction only. They aren't as easy as func_trains, although they don't get stuck either..

Many people think that func_trains don't need origins- but they do! If not you might get stuck in them, they might hit you, the solid part will leave the textures behind and maybe more problems.

and mine never seem to use the CENTER of the origen brush
more like 1-6 units up or down...
The problem here is one i never had with my own maps But nearly ALWAYS get it on one or 2 of the HL maps.
I don`t think it is the origen since the hl maps should have one. But then looking at the number of unaligned textures it wouldn`t surprise me if they didn`t make the effort of adding one.

Is it a very lon stretch? If it spans too great a distance, it will do some weird things-- >3000 units

Elon F u! Every func_train i use for an elev i've NEVER had an origin!
only laser emitting ones cos then you do need the origin.

Elon and Rowley both have a point.

If the distance is too long the func_train can do strange things:

• The visible func_train suddenly stops
• The invisible "hull" of the func_train continues on.

Want to try it?
Make a big shaft, 6000 units long, place a path_corner at the bottom of the shaft and another one at the top of the shaft. Make a brush and tie it to a func_train. Now make the func_train travel between those path_corners and you'll see what happends.

It seems Half-Life has some kind of maximum travel limit for func_trains. There is a simple fix for this, and thats what Elon tries to say: add an ORIGIN brush to the func_train and the "max travel limit" will dissapear.

And if you don't have an origin and you want your train to move slowly(below 15 unit/sec I think) these problems might also apear.

Mr.Good Map, what the hell is your problem? I said it might happen! You might have been lucky all these times not to come across such an error but why take the risk?

No need to say fuck you, asshole!

Well, guys, thanks for the input.

The solution I've tried is the one recommended by Elon: adding an ORIGIN brush to my elevator. Of course, since it was only ever an intermittent fault, I may never know for sure whether it has been fixed - but if I playtest this level for the next week and don't run into the problem again, I think I can be reasonable confident... :)

If I still do have problems, I'll be sure to let you know...

If Elon's information is correct, would it be worth revising the TWHL entity guide description for a func_train? Perhaps add something like:

While a func_train often appears to work properly without an ORIGIN brush, adding one can improve its stability under certain conditions.

shrug

@ Highlander: I don't think it is a lag problem -- although parts of this level do have rather high r_speeds values so I guess it's possible, especially when several people are in the offending area. I've retained the speed-change path_corner, though, so thanks for that...

@ Saco: My "necropolis" is Egyptian-themed; I'm using a set of textures I got from Wadfather -- in fact, in many ways the texture set has guided the level design.

@ Unbreakable:

@ Kasperg:

my opinion is that any off-theme bounce pad, trigger_push, func_ladders or ramps will be better than a buggy elevator in case you can?t fix it

I guess that's still the ultimate fall-back position, if all else fails!

Still, I tried replacing the elevator with a ladder, and it just didn't seem right somehow. (My original thought was to have a huge fan blowing air (and players) up the shaft; I may yet go back to that if Elon's solution doesn't fix the problem... It would sorta fit the theme...)

@ Daubster: When I first started trying to build an elevator in one of my earlier levels I tried a func_plat but switched to func_train because in most cases it was easier to control, and more flexible. For this level I automatically used a func_train without even thinking that there were other options. I think a func_train is still preferable, but if Elon's fix doesn't work I'll switch back to a func_plat. (I do have a func_plat in an earlier level, come to think of it...)

@ Elon Yariv:

Many people think that func_trains don't need origins- but they do!

Thanks for that. All the entity guides seem to suggest that an ORIGIN brush is NOT required (unless being used as a beam target) and all my other func_trains have worked fine without one - but I'll give it a try. Certainly, when I have more time, I shall do some testing of some of the strange behaviours being mentioned here... :)

@ killer1102:

and mine never seem to use the CENTER of the origen brush
more like 1-6 units up or down...

Having revised my lifts to add an ORIGIN brush, I haven't noticed this to be a problem. However, I would suggest that perhaps the func_train still uses the center of its brushes as the centerpoint, regardless of whether it has an ORIGIN brush or not (and therefore, regardless of the placement of the origin brush.) Again, this is something I might test when I have a little free time.

@ rowleybob: Nope, only 644 units of travel. I do have another which travels further - still less than 3000, I think - but so far I don't think I've had any problems with that one...

@ Muzzleflash: Thanks for confirming what Elon and rowley are saying.

An ORIGIN brush is only required when making an func_train that travels a very long distance, like 5000 units or more.

An ORIGIN brush is only required when making an func_train that travels a very long distance, like 5000 units or more.

Indeed...

Whatever the cause of my problem, adding an ORIGIN brush to my func_train did NOT fix it.



So it looks like I'm back to plan B; removing the speed change which appears to be the culprit...

did you try deleting and remaking the func_train?
I usually like to start over when weird stuff like this happens. Maybe delete and re-make the path_corners?
I guess dont stop trying things until you've tried everything.

Final result:

Based on a couple of successful play sessions (with two to four players) it seems that deleting the additional path_corner with the speed change has solved my problem...

If the door is locked, try the window...

Well, I have one final report to make on this issue.

To add insult to injury, I have since discovered that I now sometimes get stuck at the very top of the lift's path. Since it's no longer moving I don't take damage, but I'm stuck until it moves down again.

This was an easier one to fix, though. I just reinserted a path_corner 4 units above where it is supposed to stop, so that it actually moves higher than originally intended, and then drops down a few inches, freeing anybody who happened to get stuck. (I'm almost confident this time... :D) And it fits nicely into the theme, since it's a rickety old wooden elevator rumbling up the inside of a 3000 year old stone tower... I added a ratchet sound as it locks itself into place for a while before the descent.

This time fer sure!

When a player touches the origin brush in a func_train he is screwed. That's what happens in my CS map, anyway.

The player must also not crouch or the whole thing will get stuck and damage will be dealt.

Thats a CS bug not a HL bug, its the reason you cant duck. you can duck easily in HL doing that.