rowleybob Projects! Created 18 years ago2006-07-10 02:36:22 UTC by rowleybob

I always find that having the texture set even before starting the map helps you visualize the theme better.
And depending on what they look like, the textures themselves can give you tips on where they will belong inside the map.

But any workflow is good if it helps the mapper!

Well, it's not a gigantic concept imo. Usaually I'm mapping something I'm famialiar with--something I know personally, or from a movie.

Whatever I'm "brushworking", I have a really good idea what I want it to look like, I just have no textures for it.

So, I pick something out of the Half-Life wad that looks close to what I want--or at least the color of what I want--, and presto: placeholder texture.

I will fully admit though that my texturing requires some serious improvement; it's probably my weakest mapping skill. I also recognize that maps with custom textures look thousands of times better than the beat-up 'ol HL ones... I'm just irrationally averse to making my own for the time being--hopefully not too much longer

mapping with place holders only works when you have a texture artist to make specific textures to replace them.

something I found out when I somehow managed to become the lead mapper for Contagion-theory (which was quake based, I had actually told bluewolf72 that i'd help with the design aspects, but somehow carni decided that I was supposed to map some uber nice map with Radient (FUCKING EVIL! NEVER USE IT) without ANYTHING except some pretty random low quality textures as placeholders.

add that to the fact that 1) radient is evil and 2) Im not much of a quake mapper even though I can at least do it and 3) Carni doesn't know a whole lot about level design and team management. could have maybe done it with either a texture artist or some actual textures, but no, didn't have those.

ya so the point I was trying to make was mapping without ANY textures is death

Custom texturing=making the map, is a myth.

I suppose, but no maps blow me away like the ones with custom textures.

I suppose too it has to do with your lighting too. You can take a mono-textured map, and make it look cool with shadows--make the map really dark, with small, bright text lighting. In a map like that, the texturing becomes less important in a way.

Anyway, I'm not saying the HL textures are total crap--I use them ALL the time--, I'm just saying no matter how well there used, nothing captures you like crispy new ones!

K. So this is what i've been spending all my recent free time on, and why no recent Clarity updates:

If you like Star Wars, you're going to love this map, If you don't then less so. It's called DM_Hothworld btw. It features all the main areas found in the Hoth battle during Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back.

Why I'm excited about this map:
?I protoyped the thing in only a few days
?It's turning out exactly the way I wanted to--which is rare
?The performance is WAY better than I thought it would be--without any crazy optimization.
?I finally--hopefully--have a place to use my Battlefront Turret!!

The map is mostly complete, all that's left is retexturing, fine detailing, some lighting tweaks, and a couple more big props to finish. Expect more screens and download soon.

I don't have much to finish for this map, but with all the holiday craziness--mostly friends and family coming to town--, I just haven't had time to finish it up.

Still, I'm going to try for some sort of release by Christmas day or so.

Hahaha that's pretty spot on...Seeing as I played the Battlefield game I remember it quite well.

Keep it up.

you bitch! I WAS MAKING A HOTH MAP!

First very unfinished release of dm_hothworld.

I didn't want to release it at all in it's unfinished state, but I promised a Christmas release, so here it is Much Much more to add, and the more work I do on it, the more things I think to add!!

Anyway, a bunch of screens:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Huntee: Ha Ha! .. I'm sorry!! Are you doing yours in HL1 or Source?

Habboi: Thanks

HL1 of course. i never do anything serious in Source.

But my map dm_geekconvention was going to feature hoth, and star trek.. however, the map breaks several limits already, and i've only done the star trek part, so i doubt the hoth part'll make it in.

Get more custom textures in there for god's sake. actually, do you want the ones i made for my hoth map?

dm_geekconvention?! Most excellent idea

I'd rather see you use the Hoth textures in your own map, but whatevs--make a seperate map for them!!1 I thorougly appreciate the offer though; the textures look quite nice!

Actually, when I finish the architectue of the map--only a few days of work--, I'm going to try my hand at custom texturing it befor returning to the clarity project. If I fail miserably, I will--in the interest of expediency--look to hire someone to take full credits for texturing it. In that event, would you be interested?

First finished beta of dm_hothworld soon!

DM_hothworld BETA

Finally an update for this

A ridiculous amount of screenshots:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

As stated in the map description, this is stage 1 of a 3-stage process. I'm working on Stage 2 as we speak, which will focus on my first go at custom textures as well a myriad of custom sounds and triggerable effects. Also, any feedback from the beta version will be applied to the finished Stage 2 release.

Stage 3 will be the product of feedback on the new textures/effects I'm working on now.

Feedback on Layout/Architectue/lighting/gameplay would be greatly appreciated!

Due to gloriously-painful feedback, I'll be completely redesigning the layout. Initially, I was going to try to modify the existing one, but the more I look at the current one, the more I don't like it, so it is gone

I've copied all the major props to a different bsp, and I'll be concentrating soley on constructing/custom skinning the layout. If you have any tips or suggestions to that end, now would be the time.

Hopefully a bare, playable demo--with weapons/spawns/custom sounds--soon!

Sweet. i'll be looking foward to that

Still moving forward, and I'm excited about rebuilding the layout--it felt a little rushed the first time--, but the progress is pretty slow.

I basically have three main areas being the main hangar, the Falocon hangar, and the outside. All three will be linked by archways and/or short passageways. Maybe 3 or 4 small vista areas in between will make nice areas for spawns, chargers, and spawnable turrets.

That's the plan anyway I have lots of energy left to devote to this, but I'm having decision-making troubles on how big everything should be, and of course the best way to arrange it.

Hopefully more updates soon.

I've had at least 3 people downloaing the map say the ZIP is invalid, yet everyone else leaving comments. I Just use the XP "send to compressed (zipped) Folder" option to archive--and always have.

Suggestions?

Nowadays, I always include the complete directory structure in the zip, and the downloader just has to copy/past the VALVE folder.

It's weird.

Though I haven't given up on this, no matter how much time I put into it I seem to be making very little progress... meh! I guess this is what you call Mapper's block?!

It's even more discouraging, considering how fast I crapped out the first version. To prove I'm still working on it:

Still generic textures, and the map is bare of most all props. I'm working on snow speeder textures now, but it's harder than I thought...

Try it!

I know I don't need much time to finish this, I just need something to push me to get my momentum going again. Any layout suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

(I realize the speeder in the middle is not "connected" to the elevator. The elevator will probably be scrapped in the final version anyway)

Your mapping workflow is bound to cause a mappers block.
You have a theme, and a main idea for the layout. The problem is, you map it all before knowing if it's the best option.
That might be a first cause for being blocked. It's easier to change and imagine things in your mind/paper that when they arealready solid world brushes.
I don't know why, but I think you're not controlling the scale yet. Adding a monster_barney or two around the map, or using chase_active 1 is a good way to always know how big things are. Right now you have a big and mostly empty map in front of you, and filling it with props and retexturing doesn't seem fun, am I right?
If you texture things at the same time as building them, it's easier to make them feel right. You should visualize what you are mapping before actually doing so.
For example, you have high vertical walls. Now that they are textured with a placeholder tile texture, you are subconsciously excluding the possibility that those walls have closed gates into which you can look at, or instead of flat they are actually irregular and made out of rock or snow.
Most of the map right now is in a flat plane, and the vent ducts don't feel like a good idea: players don't have a real advantage going inside.
There are a lot of improvements though. Lighting, although still very basic, is much better in this version. The red lights work as a landmark the way they are placed. The props you have so far look nice, although you seem to have different types of speeders. R2D2 and the other droid look great. The deathstar hologram is funny. I would make it bigger and maybe put it in the center of a control room. It could work as a good landmark.
You got rid of the halls, which is good, but I still feel it takes long to get from one place to another because of the size and lack of cover. I know it's considered bad, but you can add big crates in the hangars. Placing items on top of some of them will give players a reason to climb them and increase vertical gameplay.
More later.

The text looked much shorter in WordPad

Whoa! (Just give him the Forum Award already, he totally deserves it! :P)

I read your input at least 10 times, and I think I finally understand. It's not that you worded your post unclearly, or said anything that was too pointed... I guess it's just difficult sometimes to admit/accept certain truths concerning your own work, no matter how it's presented!

Anyway I throroughly appreciate your input, and I agree with everything you said.

Scale. I don't know why my recent couple of maps have been so huge, but you're right, they are leauges too large. I think my current propensity to build large maps has a psychological component of some sort, maybe that I'm too cocky/confident--at least in terms of brushwork, lol.

I tried the chase_active paramater--which is really cool btw!--, and the scale seemed ok to me, which means It may be necessary for me to deflate my ego before I work on size adjustments! Therapy here we come!!1

Planning. You hit that one right on the head--I didn't think it was so obvious!

My mindset with this and other themed maps was that certain things had to be in the map, and I just had to figure a way to link the "mandatory" units together somehow as I got to them. As you astutely observed, I just dove in to brushing out the map, without any planning other than looking at reference pics.

Subsequently, I really need to start listening to your's and Captain P's advice on preplanning and layouts! (I've already started some concept sketches for my compo 23 map lol )

Lastly, I agree about the poor vertical relief, and I already have some ideas on how to work on remedying it



Anyhoo, I'm putting Clarity, and Hothworld V2 on hold for the time being, and adjusting my focus on preplanning for Compo 23. It will be really nice to work on something other than the Star Wars/space theme for awhile.

Another thing that can be said, is that you don't need to have a gameplay area as big as the visual area. I think you are right with the scale, things are not so out of proportion.
The problem is that every spot of floor you can see is floor you can walk on. It's a good freedom in terms of "I'm in the Hoth base and I can look around at will", but not so much when it comes to navigation.
When I end up a having an area which is too big, I usually fence off some area or make adjustments to the walls. Campers like big rooms, and I don't like campers

^^ Very good tip, TY.

Updated an old map, My House. The lighting was completey too dark and many other problems. It's not perfect by any stretch, but worth a look imo (It's possible I'm slightly biased ).

This could have been an entry for Dr. Breen's House in Black Mesa!

Rowleybob, you seriously need some custom textures.
I think your brushwork is fine, but the HL1 textures just ruin the beauty.

Not that HL1 textures are so bad, but they just don't fit in with your themes. If you're making a starwars map, HL1 textures just don't do it.

..but heh, excuse me if you were already planning to do that.

Agreed FresheD. Someday, I really need to get used to using/creating custom textures. /fail

Kasperg:

Rowley, look up Rimrooks texture creation guide. It helped me a lot.

http://www.freewebs.com/demonicpuppy/ttpscreen1.jpg

Everything there (save for the lights) is custom.

where's rim's texture creation guide located?
for the lazy bunch of us?

Check this thread, started by none other than "The Greatest and Most Handsom TWHL Mapper!"

http://twhl.co.za/forums.php?action=viewthread&str=textures&type=1&pgt=2&pg=1&id=12831

@Tetsu0: Here.

You should use spirit for this rowlaybob. Although you hate it, I think you'll find the 3D skybox very useful in the outside. And you might even managed to move these...how do you call those mamoths. :

Sure bud, whatever you say.

Damn straight.



Yeah, I was bein sarcy

ZOMG NO WAI: MY FIRST 3DS MAX MODEL!!1 Yes, it's completely-ridiculoulsly simple and bad, but It's just a test of course. In order to do this I had to:

?get the exporter
?learn a little about defining/assigning materials
?learn how to add a physique modifier and assign to a bone
?export the .smds
?get studiomdl
?make the qc file--I used my old milkshape one as a template
?get it compiled

Once I get decent enough at it, I'll make a "Your first 3ds Max Model for Half-Life" tutorial, since I had a really hard damn time finding one.

Actually, I couldn't find one, and had to piece together the info from a swat 3 max exporting tutorial by furrycat, some of the HL2 Knowledge base tutorials, and a couple threads in here by Pepper!

/proud

Elon: You're probably right. Maybe someday

You make Kitty Scart: I plan to as soon as I procure PS, maybe sooner!

Zomg compile for deagle plz!

I have no idea how to do animations yet, but if anyone wants a prop model, just lemme know!

NICE UZI!

KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!

I especially like the trigger. It's very well detailed.

I'm working on a real prop now...

It's going to be a globe for meh study. Should be up soon!

WARNING: The sweet sweet pwnage you are about to witness may cause dizziness, rapid breathing, heart palpitations, and involuntary loss of all self-control. Parental Discretion is advised.

Behold great infidels, my first real 3ds Max model!!1 :

Download

/proud

/me wonders how rowley got so good at modeling so quickly.

I're envious of you.

It's not hard once you get used to the interface. Once you get it to compile correctly, you can use the qc file/directory structure as a template to compile all your subsequent models.

I have a bit of prior experience with the Max interface, from using Gmax for Pepper's Weapons Modeling compo. (Not to mention with lots of help from his Gmax/box-modelling tutorials, and advice in the Compo Thread.)

I can write you a crash tutorial right away if you want.

I should someday return to modeling my self... but it seems so silly to use Gmax when I have maya on my brothers computer, if I could only convince him to teach me how to use it. It looks alot easier to create stuff in it, especially because I now need to do an extremly difficult and curved pipe model. In Gmax it's rather hard to draw the lines(although I've done it) and then turn it to 3D, in maya all I need is to use a NURB. :
Maybe I could find tutorials and teach myself. But only after I'll master texture creation...

Good for you first few models, though the wood texture is rather streched.