Geometry Challenges Created 16 years ago2008-01-07 20:44:51 UTC by Captain Terror

I can make a cube using 4 4-sided blocks (3-sided pyramid or spike). In my mind it would follow I'd be able to make a wedge out of only two of these. Is it possible?

First person to prove his answer either way wins the prize! (Use a hammer source file (rmf) to prove your answer.

I think I didnt understand totally what you would like (can it be my bad english), but here my answer:
http://rapidshare.com/files/82099119/redka_solution.rmf.html

A wedge has 5 sides and 6 verticies.

You built a 4-sided pyramid ( 5 sides, 5 vertices). Are you saying you can't make the wedge from those 2 4-sided forms?

I still have problems with understanding it, but now I created a wedge (5 sides and 6 vericies) from a 4 sided pyramid (5 sides and 5 vertices) and a 4 sided brush (4 sides and 4 vertices):
http://rapidshare.com/files/82196205/redka_solution_2.rmf.html

It's the same as the last one afaik! = )

A wedge doesn't come to a point like ur pyramid, but has 2 vertices at the "point" instead... like if you cut a cube in half at a 45 it would give u 2 wedges.

And Yeah, it's kind of a weird problem to understand... I guess I just got on a kick about creating shapes out of minimum number of 4-sided shapes, and at the time I thought it was a lot more interesting than it really is.

It is a good practice to play around with using the 4-sided shapes for complex geometry though: it's the cleanest, error-free way to build stuff.

For the record I don't think it's possible to build a wedge from 2 4-sided shapes, but there are other things I've felt a lot more sure of that turned out to be false. : )

Wedge can be formed using three tetrahedrons, not two:

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1497480_wedge.png

Just for fun...

Yay the answer! U win the prize! (Geometry challenge prizes are not currently available, but you will be contacted as soon as they are!)

Would you like to create a geometry challenge #2?

A prize? You mean one of the brushes depicted on those Escher drawings?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/thumb/e/e8/Escher_Waterfall.jpg/480px-Escher_Waterfall.jpg

?Would you like to create a geometry challenge #2??

Sure!

EDIT: But I'll have to pass tomorrow's exam first...

I don't know what you mean about the Escher brush but please explain!

I'm glad you are going to create a challenge for us! Perhaps we should
make it a seperate thread to make it cleaner? (dunno up to you)

lol

Ok, I passed the exam, so here it is:

Geometry Challenge #2.1

How to make a rounded (bended) pipe with at least 8-12 sides and 3 or 5 turn sections?

Geometry Challenge #2.2

A T-joint of two compatible (same diameter and side count) pipes.

Captain Terror: ?I don't know what you mean about the Escher brush but please explain!?

Escher liked drawing things that are impossible 3d-wise. The famous Escher cube is one of the siomplest examples.

Haha sweet! I'll work on these tomorrow morning. = )

ok.. listen to this heap of bullshit

I saved the rmf as "2.1_compo"
But i guess that caused fucking windows to save it as "2.1_compo.rmf" which is an incorrect filename and i can't seem to fix it.
Simply renaming it doesn't do the trick.

Hey, redka!

Looks like your bended pipe won't convert to .map without problems... Are you sure it compiles well?

Redka, read my comments on your map.

For 2.1 I'll assume you mean 90-degree bends in a pipe and not a coil of pipe?

I'm doing mine right now.

Tetsu0: lol nice photshop!

edit: Maiking my pipe, now I know what you mean about the turn sections! (not just simply joining 2 cylinders)

It can cause problems when trying to compile it with Hammer or any external compiler, but it can be compiled correctly in Quark, I have started building it with it because I like it much more than Hammer.
Thanks for the comment MuzzleFlash, I figured out how to create the T joint from 4 brush. Now the building part is ready, but still have problem with the alignment on its faces. They are already aligned to the world. Is there a way to fix it and of course how?
Ugly bended pipe
Thanks in advance

I figured out how to create the T joint from 4 brush

Nope, 3.

As for your bended pipe, looks good, you won't get it any better than that.

Yeah, got it:
T-joint
textured pipe section
Maybe I am going to make a little example map tomorrow if I have enough time...

Captain Terror:
"How to make a rounded (bended) pipe with at least 8-12 sides and 3 or 5 turn sections?"

Yeah, I mean smooth bend! Turn sections are intermediate sections of pipe used to make the turn smooth. Look at redka's example (which won't work ok in Hammer but is still viewable!)

redka: It's great you can map with Quark! I started with WorldCraft and simply can't do anyhing in Quark. As opposed to Hammer, Quark works with fractional (not snapped to grid) coordinates well and doesn't round tem when exporting to .map thus making creation of rounded pipes easier...

Well, I have to accept redka's pipe then, but doing it in Quark is so much easier that I that I'd call it cheating It's a Hammer only contest

Um
I think i win here, i made mine hollow.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7659/geo2cg7.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3536/geo1ih8.jpg

Wow! Hollow though?! Amazing Tetsuo! : P

Redka did his first, but what is quark? (is it a mapper or modeller?)

Here's mine, but pretty late. I was almost done and I had to get off the computer yesterday. Here it is, 2.1 and now 2.2:

http://captain0terror.googlepages.com/geometry20001.zip

Tetsu0 or Redka are you making the #3? Who is techically the winner since Redka's wasn't in hammer?

Captain Terror: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Army_Knife

Just another level editor.

Quark is a bad level editor imo, there is nothing in quark that you can do that hammer cant, and the navigation is all weird in quark.

I'm in the process of learning GtkRadiant right now. For Nexiuz Mapping. It's pretty sweet. The only thing i miss from hammer is the easier clip tool, texture application tool, and the 3-d navigation.
And i HAD the map done before, but it got all screwed up with the file name. oh well.
I'll upload it to the example vault i guess.

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EDIT|

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http://twhl.co.za/mapvault_map.php?id=4956

It's a Hammer only contest

I am so sad about that ...I feel like I bowl out. I also started mapping with WorldCraft, but it made me a lot of errors on my maps (most caused by bad vertex manipulation).

doing it in Quark is so much easier

That is why I am using it. Vertex manipulation is not a morphe mode in it, this made me angry so many times in Hammer, because just simply cant undo moving of one vertex (must exit morphe mode to undo changes you made). And just cant create an invalid brush in Quark by vertex manipulating, rarely it can make error in your compile, but not in the building part. This means that when you move a vertex in an invalid positon the whole brush transforms to make the brush valid.

Quark is a bad level editor

laugh...
I am not saying Hammer is bad (I also use it sometimes). It has a very big advantage in texturing, but Quark has a very big advantage in creating brushes.

nothing in quark that you can do that hammer cant

That's right, but why should I spend 5 minutes on creating a stairs if I can do it in just 1. There are many usefull stuff in it, Half life RAD editor (for texture lighting), shape builders (bevel, arch, staircase maker,...), some precreated brushes (like pyramid, prisms (8-10 sides), wedge,...), advanced search (bad tex scale, find microbrushes, find thin faces,...), you can mark your selection and can make some advanced selection, for example there are options to select only brushes, only entities and everything,...there are plenty which I didn't mentioned. I am sure Quark is more advanced in creating polyhedrons.

the navigation is all weird in quark

It can be for the first time, but after a little practice you will figure out it is much more easier (for me sure).
The usage of it is optional...

Intriguing! Quark sounds pretty good in some respects, but honestly the last thing I feel like doing is to learn another editor!

You can compile with Quark for HL maps?

KK so who's gonna make challenge #3? Tetsu0? Redka? Anybody? = )

Yes you can, and also create maps for more than 20 games, including:
Half life, Half life2 (unfortunatelly it cant handle the displacement, which is very big disadvantage), Crystal Space, Doom3, MOHAA, Quake1-4, SOF, SOF2, ...

If I would make the Geometry Challenge #3, I will say:
Create a sphere from one brush, which looks like as a 10 sided prism in the 2D views.

Wow sounds pretty cool! If you can pimp some links I'll give it a try! (do you use the zhlt compile tools with quark?)

As for geometry challenge #3, It's really a clipping more than a construction compo, but what the heck, I'll try it! = )

I just cant bring my self to adjust to the controls in radiant/quark, its to different, I just cant get used to it.

Does it have to be 10 sides?
how about 12?

http://quark.planetquake.gamespy.com/
I also use zhlt compile tools. And geometry challenge means creating geometric bodies for me. By the way creating it in quark is just two clicks.

I didnt want to make it too hard, but yeah 12 sides looks like much more beautiful.

12 sides is easier than 10 sides

I dont think this is possible in Hammer. To be honest. I've tried 4 ways of VMing, and 3 times Clipping.

But i can make a hollow cube from multiple brushes without any errors at all.

Ok, then let it be 12.

No, wait. I think i'm on to something :))
omg
seriously.

Nuh, I don't think 10 sides is possible in hammer either.

No, Aaron, This is what i have so far in hammer. This is ONE BRUSH
VERTEX MANIPULATED!!!

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/525/geo1dk8.jpg

I'm just about halfway there i think.

Nice Tetsu0...you gonna make it

Hmmmmmm, good work. I thought the challenge was to make a 3 bend, hollowed out, 90 degree pipe curve with 10 sides. I missed a post or 2.

Anyway, you're pretty much done, if you can do the bottom, you just have to repeat it at the top.

Although....

Create a sphere from one brush

Is that one brush buddy?

Yes aaron, this is ONE brush. Unfortunately, if you 'Fix' the invalid brush via hammer, it royally screws up the sphere, but here is a screenie, and if you want the raw, un-fixed RMF i'll upload it to a remote host.

I'm gonna continue to mess with it... try and see if i can get a valid brush outta this thing. Though i doubt i can.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/668/geo2gy7.jpg

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and you can tell it's only one brush because you'd see multiple crosses for the center of each successive brush.
There's only one, and it's in the middle.

Ahhh, yes, the invalid brush error, this is caused by a face of a brush not being flat. For example if you get a square and raise one of its corners, it will cause this error. I don't think you can fix this in hammer, unless if the sphere is made up of more than one brush, than it is possible for the object to be valid.

Yeah. I'm trying to make each face flat. It's proving to be quite difficult.
But i bet with some more messing around i can turn each of my squares into triangles, thus solving the error.
I'll report back in like.. 20 minutes or so.

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EDIT

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How about ... 5 minutes lol.
Here's a view from the inside of the sphere.
I'm turning the trapezoids into 2 Triangles Each. I believe the outer ring of squares should be all set. Because this is some tedious stuff.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/940/geo1do2.jpg

Anyway I created it in Quark, but a little bit more detailed one. From the top view it looks like as a 20 sided prism, but from the other two view it is more detailed. This one takes me less then 3 minutes with compile. I put the sphere into a func_wall entity to short the compile process time. Only contains the bsp file, cuz no one uses Quark and it makes errors in Hammer (as mentioned above).
Link
Now I am going to sleep, cuz the time is 4:50. Hopefully when I get up we have the winner, who has the honor to figure out the geometry challenge #4 (if he likes). Tetsu0 is so close...

So close, yet so far away... the faces keep disappearing on me!!!
So i have to build the whole thing without exiting the VM mode..
Extremely hard to do.

Managed to Break hammer once.. or 400 times....

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7700/brokehammerkm4.jpg
EDIT

ok
fuck this game. I quit.

Here's what i had anyway:
http://rapidshare.com/files/83380677/10sidedsphere2.rmf

I accept Tetsu0 solution, even if it not working in a compiled map due to the coplanar faces error, but no one takes any effort... So Tetsu0 would you like to make the challenge #4? Maybe I would join with my not so high experience in Hammer...

Something is seriously wrong with my Hammer.
Whenever i begin a new map, and make the first brush, im unable to select it by clicking the brush in the 3D window. Reinstalling didn't work.

Wtf?

I would've tried the sphere compo if i could.

Guess its time for a complete re-install of Windows here...

Are you on Vista methinks?