Sledge (Hammer Alternative) Alpha Build Created 11 years ago2013-07-27 02:24:39 UTC by Penguinboy

Well, I only have the one config with the others removed. Perhaps Sledge automatically shows me all of the wad files in Half-Life? Will I have to worry about the map compiling with all of then, despite only using the two in the config?

Perhaps Sledge automatically shows me all of the wad files in Half-Life?

Yes it does

Whitelist only the wads you want, at least that's what I do. Compiling with Sledge should wadinclude ONLY the textures you've used in your map by default.

Wadinclude may only work in FINAL/ADVANCED compiles, I'm not 100% sure, but definitely use one of those for a final release of your map

Yeah, all the wads in your game directories are loaded up automatically, but you can change what's loaded by using the black/white lists. There's a bit of text on the texture tab in the settings page that explains it in more detail. Sledge only includes wads that you actually use in the map when it compiles (same as the -wadautodetect in the compile tools, except it does it when it saves the MAP file).

The texture settings page could be better, I have a few ideas of how to fix it, so I'll see what I can do for a later version.

I got it figured out. Thanks for helping my understand!
I'm not a huge fan of how it brings up wads that aren't in the config being used. It's a bit confusing. Is there a setting to enable/disable this?

One more thing, the texture lock seems inconsistent. It's not a big problem, but copying+pasting a brush by shift+dragging moves the textures. But just moving a brush around like normal doesn't scroll the textures.

Nothing else I wanted to bitch about other than nitpicks. Still a great editor though!

I realize you are rewriting the code PB.. would you prefer we hold off on bug reports until the next version? Meantime, here are s'more:

Misc. Entity bug
By accident I found you can combine point entities and brush-based entities together(Ctrl+T), e.g., you can combine a ambient generic and a solid into a func_detail.. Probably a bad thing? =P

light_environment feature request
It might be nice to have a directional widget for sun angle.

3D double click preference 2 cents
I like that you added the option to have double click open the Texture Application window, but maybe instead of having the enitre object's faces selected, have just the face you double clicked on, OR, add it as yet another togglable option to what the user prefers. It's an extra click of the mouse, not a big deal!

Texture Application select/mark feature request
I use the select feature in the Texture Browser A LOT. Having a button for this on the Texture Application window itself would be helpful saving a step, when aligning and realighning textures. realigning should be greatly reduced once you fix the Sledge texture lock issues

Paste special instant feature request
When right clicking in a 2d window, consider adding paste special "instant" button. This would copy and paste special the selected object(s) in one stroke, saving you a step.
Clone objects is fastest, but sometimes with off-grid stuff you can't use it

Just experienced a problem.
I had created a visgroup the other day in my map to clean up the grid while I work, and later I had to close Sledge. I return to find that the visgroup no longer exists (as usual) however a bunch of entities are gone, such as a func_door, func_train, trigger_teleport, etc. They're still there, just invisible. Going into the entity report window and using "go to" to find the door brings up hundreds of "oops something went horribly wrong" windows that continually open, forcing me to use the task manager.
So the map is broken and has to be rebuilt.
Should I give the map file?

Use RMF format if you use Visgroups, because VMF is still extremely buggy with them, i.e., closing down Sledge with a group hidden will cause that group to be hidden indefinitely...

Export or Save As RMF(both work afaik), and all will be well again

Ctrl+A request
Possibly make it an option(or default preferably) that Ctrl+A closes/minimizes the compile window and sidebar? perhaps as an alternative, you could "autohide" them instead after 10-15 seconds of non-use or something?

Another Visgroup request
Visgrouped objects that are also then grouped(Ctrl+g), are unable to be changed to a new visgroup without being a part of the old group too, UNLESS you ungroup(Ctrl+u) them first. Afaik, you would NEVER want an object to be a part of 2 separate visgroups, so this shouldn't be able to happen.
Hammer will also let an object be a part of 2 groups, but if you can prevent this in Sledge,it would be a good thing

Change default save type to RMF
Until the problems with visgroups are fixed, you should really change the default save type to RMF, not VMF, so people don't experience the aformentioned disappearing visgroup error. I know that 90% of people probably don't use them and won't ever notice, but it's very frustrating for those who do

Texture alignment bug
Specifically but not limited to 360 degree arches and cylinders, proper texture alignment is a real pita in Sledge atm. You should be able to select a face, and apply the texture/values to the next face, working your way around for a perfect alignment, but this is not the case. Create a 12-sided 360 arch and try it yourself to see what I mean. For example, Sledge is making my life really hard atm just trying to properly texture these simple 7-sided 360 arches:

2 Cents concerning WADS
Even after all these years, I STILL find myself leaving WADS out of my released GS maps.. Of course this is me not being careful enough, but the fact I still continue to do this proves--I think--the default way wads are handled is a PITA. Consider changing the current default -wadautodetect to -nowadtextures, so noone ever has to worry about this again? YES the filesize will be bigger AND YES it's wasteful, but that's better than not being able to play the map imo; more advanced users will readily know how to change it, keeping their filesizes down..

Hotkey reminders
Show hotkey combination reminders on hovering over things like grid snap, texture lock, etc., like you already do with the tools.

You might be interested in this: Linky

Imho, this is one of the most talented Goldsource level designers we have at GameBanana. You might know him too.

And he's using Sledge to make the masterpiece (could be his last one.)

Hammer will also let an object be a part of 2 groups, but if you can prevent this in Sledge,it would be a good thing

I object to this. I don't have a problem with that. Sometimes you want to hide/unhide particular groups of things and a group of brushes may belong in more than one such group for a particular purpose. I suppose you could have a third group to hold the things that belong to both the first groups, but I think that's up to the mapper to decide, not the tool.

Take it from someone who uses them a lot, you don't ever want an object part of 2 visgroups. Doing so belies the whole purpose, which is the ability to quickly isolate(hide/unhide/select) like objects in your map.

If you want to isolate specific object types, say every func_detail or light entity in your map, that's what 'Auto' Visgrouping is for

Sometimes you want to hide/unhide particular groups of things and a group of brushes may belong in more than one such group for a particular purpose.

That's what Quickhide(H key) and Quickhide Unselected(Ctrl+H) are for

Ola people. I came across a bug when using V.Manipulation.

Idk what is actually causing it, but here is what happened.

I was making a building with quite a few parts, and grouped the brushwork together for easier selection when it needed moving, and finally when placed, I needed to change one of the buildings brushes which was a house (5 points) shape "[]>" into a cube again, but every time I tried to move the top vertex into another for merging, the error message would pop up.

Now, I tried the same thing on a different brush, which wasn't grouped at all, and it worked like a charm. So naturally, I ungroupped the building, and tried again. To my disappointment, the error popped up again. In the end I cut the top off as it was the only solution. So I'm in the shadow as for why this happens, but here is my exp with it. Also, there were other bugs similar to this one, but I couldn't find the connections.

If a brush is glitching in any way, ALWAYS rebuild it. Also after encountering any glitch in Sledge, it's probably a good idea to restart

Lost track of this thread; sorry if this was already mentioned/requested. Any chance to have a hide/show toggle option for clip textured brushes in the Visgroups - Tool Brushes.
Right now we got: bevel, hint, origin, skip and trigger.

Heh, I never noticed

Clip

was missing from the

Tool Brushes

autovisgroup, nice catch! Meantime you can put all your clip brushes into a single visgroup, least that's what I do.

^

Agreed.

I have two feature requests. One, would it be possible to have a button on the interface or something that when pressed, brings all the vertices in the map to the nearest grid point? It's annoying when I'm VMing in either Hammer or Sledge and I notice that one vertex has somehow gotten 0.01 units away from a grid point, especially when it's a point where several brushes have vertices. I find myself having to grab all of the vertices in the brushwork individually and jiggle them so they snap to the grid. Apologies if something like this is already implemented, I haven't used Sledge very recently.
Another potential one is a randomize feature for VM, to help with making terrain and cliffs look a bit less uniform. And if there are multiple brushes selected, and several brushes have a vertex in the same place, then those vertices will move together, so as not to create gaps.

a button on the interface or something that when pressed, brings all the vertices in the map to the nearest grid point

It's been mentioned. Let me up that: If there is a selection, do it only to the selected brushes.

Can you add the go to co-ordinate easter egg from Hammer 4?

There is an easter egg in Hammer 4, that I haven't found?

I've never heard of that. Can you explain how to do it?

He's probably talking about the message box that appears when you type the example given in the "Go to coordinates" box.Of course it won't happen in Sledge, but I'm sure some sort of (not stolen) easter eggs are possible.

I think I never ever used or needed that. I didn't even know it existed.

I see you fixed the issues with multiple configurations PB(unless I was messing something up before). I now can edit CS1.6 and HLDM maps at the same time via tabs, and everything works perfectly, great work!

Hmm... Perhaps giving an entity a targetname of "PenguinBoy" should give an error text like: "There is allready an account with this name"?

I really like Sledge's Split Face button. Did Hammer have one of those?

Yeah, it's just hidden in a hotkey so you have to read the manual to find it. In Hammer you can "split face" in VM mode by pressing Ctrl+F.

Leak pointfile not being generated
I'm sure this is already a known issue and/or this feature has not been implemented yet. I'm not getting a pointfile generated when leaks are present atm..

Group behavior suggestion
If all the objects of a group but one are deleted, the group should automatically be dissolved, i.e., perhaps make it mandatory for a group to have AT LEAST two objects.

perhaps make it mandatory for a group to have AT LEAST two objects.

As long as it doesn't make conflicts with the func_group entity, I'd say. I use it on single solids too, because I can select the "Passable: Yes" field without tieing it to a "real" brush entity (like func_detail). It saves clipping hull memory, ya know...

Ooh never herd of func_group, what is that?

I never heard of it either! It must be a new thing on the latest compile tools.

The func_group entity works exactly like the classic "Group", but with that you can select the option "Passable: Yes/No", to save memory on the clipping hull, and so decreasing compile times.
Here's the entity description from the official "zhlt.fgd" from Vluzacn:

// func_group
// It is not a real entity. Brushes in this entity are still world brushes.
@SolidClass = func_group : "Solid brushes"

zhlt_noclip(choices) : "Passable" : "" =

	"": "No"
	1: "Yes"

So it's kind of a non-entity func_illusionary? Or at least, that's what I thought "passable" used to mean.

So it's kind of a non-entity func_illusionary? Or at least, that's what I thought "passable" used to mean.

Uhm yeah, kinda. But a func_group entity is still a simple solid so it cuts all the other touching solids as a normal brush would do.
Basically, it's very useful when making those unreachable places in a map, since it's pointless in having collisions on solids that you'd never touch in any way.
It can also be used between multiple func_detail brush entities, since func_detail entities (if touching each others), would cut each others like simple solids, you can avoid this by adding func_group entities to prevent cutting, and so making economy in the clipping hulls (decreasing compile times and increasing performance in-game).
Example images:

This is a single func_detail:And this is a single func_group:Since func_detail doesn't cut simple solids, I tied to func_detail the ones that touches the ground's brush (so I don't create unwanted cuts in the ground's brush), while all the others are func_group, so func_detail doesn't cut because they're not touching each others.
Oh and, both entities has the "Passable: Yes" option, which means that they don't have collisions (like func_illusionary). For the collisions, I've used a func_wall with a wood top texture (the rest is "Null"), so the step sounds will be of wood like the planks.

I hope it's clear enough now. :3

Screenshots made with Sledge. <3

I'd normally do that by making both groups a func_illusionary and maybe then wrap it in a clip brush, so I'm not entirely sure of what would be the benefit over my method.

I'd normally do that by making both groups a func_illusionary and maybe then wrap it in a clip brush, so I'm not entirely sure of what would be the benefit over my method.

No benefits.
All of your brushes in that entity (if touching like mine) would cut each others. So you'd be full of unneded VIS leafs, increasing compiling times and decreasing performance in-game as the wpolys would go higher.
Also, if you have a metal surface and apply a clip brush around it, you'd hear the default step sound instead of the metal one. Indeed, I would use a func_wall with a metal texture instead.

Hey PB, my models show up with my half-life config, but not with a counter-strike config. Any recommendations?

@Tet: Change your "Base game directory" with "cstrike", and it'll work.

Is there any way to do a select of an area, like usual, but only pick out brushes and/or entities? I wouldn't mind one of those.

EDIT: Or a texture Fit button for only the X or Y axis?

You could use the auto visgroups to filter out what you don't want before selecting. I think Hammer has an option to only select entities, but Sledge doesn't have that yet.

@Alberto: The func_group in your example would chop those func_details as well, but i get what you were saying
Sorry for the offtopic.
One more thing to add before i forget again. Has anyone mentioned anything about skewing textures while in VM mode, yet? Similar with Jackhammer's 1.1 "Lock On" texture feature or how old Worldcraft worked (might be remembering wrong) after manipulating brushes with vm.

That would be epic, Kachito.
Btw PB, Alberto and I tried for many hours last night trying to get CS models to appear properly. Might it be a problem with more than one game configuration?

I even deleted all my configs and started from scratch. Still no dice.
Also, for some reason when my FGDs were located in My Documents, sledge wanted to access My Music for some reason.

Here's what I have tried:
Base Game Directory: - valve
Mod Directory Directory: - cstrike

Base Game Directory: - cstrike
Mod Directory Directory: - cstrike

Use HD Models and Load Sprites and Models from FGD Directories - All combinations

I'm using the cs_expert-tom793c.fgd

Had the same problem when i installed Sledge on a new computer last year, Tetsuo. Like you, i tried everything and i could not see models and sprites in the editor even though my old pc and laptop had no problems with them.
In the end i found a fgd (by someone nicknamed Zaza) that solved the issue for me. I use it together with vluzacn's fgd.

I was checking the FGD to see if i could see any references but no go

Kachito, I'm pretty sure there was a request for something like that some time ago. That would be great.

I think I have a suggestion.
When at the game configurations tab, there's an "add new" and a "remove" button, may I suggest have a "copy" button? In case someone wants to create a new one that copies all the settings from another one without copying everything manually.

Kachito's recommended FGD works fine. So the problem is with the FGD and not Sledge. PROBLEM SOLVED

@Tet: Damn it! I should've asked you! The damn FGD... Indeed I'm using the CS Expert FGD 8.0.0 (cs-fgd-xp_8u). The one you were using is an older version.
I'm sorry man, I could've helped you better actually. But glad that it's solved now! :3

@Kachito: I've explained that wrong probably. Those 4 brushes are 4 different func_detail, not a single one. So they can't cut the func_group (or viceversa). I was confused by the single func_group actually. My bad.
Also, nice idea you got there for Sledge mate!

@PB: Is it possible to convert UV maps to Hammer texture coordinates, and viceversa? I would like to work with UV maps directly on Sledge to make precise texturing. :3
For instance, kHED can convert Hammer texture coordinates to UV map, so I thought that for Sledge too. It would be awesome!

Sledge converts map texture coordinates into UV values (it needs them for rendering), but I don't think it's possible to always convert them back. The engine doesn't allow you to stretch the texture axes (you can only rotate, skew, scale, or translate textures). That is (as far as I know), you cannot do something like this:I'd be interested to know what Jackhammer's "UV Lock" does in this scenario.

Nothing that would be much of use, i guess. Just tried and it seemed to scale the whole texture to whatever the maximum distance was between 2 opposite sides of a surface. Pretty much treated the trapezoid on the right from that pic, as if it were a square with all sides equal to the upper base length.
I don't really have hopes for a real "uv map" tbh, i can work my way around it by using tetrahedra + VM. Was just wondering if you would consider texture skewing in the future.
@Alberto: How did you manage to get the func_group not to chop the func_details? I've just tried all 3 detail levels and passable/non-passable on something similar of what you have there, but the func_group still keeps cutting the func_detail.
Got about ~30 func_illusionary intersecting details on a current map, that i'd like to get rid off.

If you make 3 vertex plane, alt+p doesn't recognize it as an invalid solid.

Geometrically speaking, a plane can never be invalid with 3 vertices.