Build a Machine Created 20 years ago2004-06-21 07:42:37 UTC by Andy

Ok,
The compo has been announced.

The idea was suggested by MuzzleFlash, winner of the last compo.
I didn't say this in the new compo description, because I forgot... but Atom knows where the idea came from and now you do too.

MuzzelFlash sent me Two ideas, and this is where we still moderate !! I didn't like the first idea, but thought the second was great.

I have had a few e-mails about using Spirit.
I agree it would make life easier, but I cannot allow it.
Why?
Because it would make life easier and not everyone has Spirit.
End of the Spirit discussion....

Okay.

I slightly disagree with you. It's ok to forbid spirit if it's based on the fact that not everyone has.
BUT! Then the same should apply to textures, models, sprites and maybe sounds too. Because not everybody is skilled enough or simply does not have the software to make own grafics and sounds.
I believe that it's not a big thing to download spirit. And for the entries it could be included just like textures, models, sprites and sounds.
A lot of people could compensate their lack of skill in 2d design by kicking the last out of the HL engine with spirit.
I think the issue about custom media and code in the TWHL compos should be reconsiderated.

That is a fair point hazardous.

Hazardous, if they have lack of skill in those areas, why should they win? The person who does the best job should win. If someone is not skilled enough to do that, they shouldn't win. Custom stuff is part of mapping. If someone can't do it, then they don't include it. Having spirit is not skill, making custim stuff is.

After all this is a mapping-contest. You're supposed to show your mapping skills. Yes, the other stuff is important too, but the focus is on mapping.
You're right, having spirit is not skill.
Handling spirit is! Being able to use the power of spirit is similar to being able to use the power of photoshop or other programs.
Still spirit is more than 80% Half-Life, it just adds a lot of improvements which require skill to master them.

:/ doesnt seem like much skill to me

^Doesn't seem like a thoughtful reply to me.
Have you ever tried using spirit? It's not just about 'movewith' shit.
Spirit is powerful and using it does require a lot of trying around and coping with many problems, just like photoshop, 3Dsmax etc.
Anyway.
Hello Andy, are you still out there. I'd just like to know what you think about my point of view, after all you do the final decision.

I don't think we should be allowed to use spirit...I'd say it counts as cheating amkes the contest easier for those woh use it...

..but even if u guys take the easy option I will still send u down

I have an amzing machine planned....only my lazyness can stop me

So, tell me what does spirit make easier that could really improve your map.
Of course, if someone is using spirit, he should also make use of it in an interesting way.
So, you want to send us down, eh? Be sure you're not the only one who planned this.

OK. This is an HL mapping compo. Models and textures only enhance it, and probably have no effect on how you do in the compo. For example, it would be pointless having barneys in a first world war map, so you might use a custom barney model to make it more realistic. It's not mapping skill, and only increases file size. Sounds, models and textures can easily be taken from other mods anyway (CREDIT THE PEOPLE THOUGH!). Spirit is an HL mod. If we want to use spirit, we should have spirit compos too (And opfor and cs compos, since it pleases more people that way; I'd like an opfor/spirit compo). But for this, PLEASE stick to HL.

spirit makes things easier by allowing entities to move automatically with other entities....this allows for lazy ness

Why?
Because it would make life easier
End of the Spirit discussion....

ARE YOU ALL ILLITERATE!?

Don't be suprised when Andy deletes this lot.

No one will find a map more fancy because that damn windshield moves with the train. The judge, I think it's Andy, certainly knows what can easily be done with spirit and what is tough and will give a judgement based on that.
When people hear spirit, most of them think of the stupid movewith function. Spirit is more than that. Half-Life does have more features than a 3 storey elevator, too. And no one will let you win a compo because you have been...

lazy

...when using spirit.

Vassy:

It's not mapping skill, and only increases file size. Sounds, models and textures can easily be taken from other mods anyway.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Taken models that other people made do not show you mapping skill, using them well does. Spirit shows your mapping skill, because the entity handling and the complexity heavily dencrease the ease of working with it.

Vassy:

Spirit is an HL mod.

It is now! Even in the custom games dialogue of HL it says 'toolpack'.
As I said above, spirit is still 80% Half-Life. It increases the flexibility and the possibility of using the features of the engine with the need to code.

Why are you so afraid of spirit? Do you fear a spirit-monster-mapper attack?
Someone who can build good maps on spirit, must also have a lot of experience with normal Half-Life mapping. With spirit he can just add some fancy boni to the map. If spirit add pixel shader FX or something far away from the basic Half-_ife, I'd agree with you. But it doesn't. It offers more entities, that's all.

@7th: I'm just trying to make spirit legal for future compos. This one has already started and there's no need to cange it. But It'd be cool to have the option to use spirit on the next compo.

monkey, its just that haz haz an opinion about spirit, and wants it in later compotitions, not this one. This is a new Spirit conversation.

end I ain't no dang ilitierated! I'es leiked toos talked liked I'eses is .

OMFG! so much spirited discussion...

Spirit: Is a modification therefore not Pure HL

New Models/Sprites/Sounds/Textures: Contradict the "Pure Hl talk" fine, but times are changing, old hl content is stale and overused, people are looking for something fresh.

Solution?

Good Admins to judge to compo: we have them, so why all the complaints?

Just map - instead of complaining, why not go with the flow and quit trying to change things, there's no democracy over here

MAP PEOPLE!
MAP I SAY!

This is a HALF-LIFE mapping compo. I don't think your entry will be valid if you include your own dll with the map. You can replace the models and textures and everything in normal Half-Life without altering the dll. Spirit isn't even Half-Life, it's Spirit.

including spirit with a compo entry would just be like including some one elses textures or such you just wont get marked on whatever use you put it too, however what if like me you've got your own custom version of spirit that you've added things like mp3 support and my muzzle flash code. then surley that still makes those additions your own work...

i for one didn't even know there was a problem with using spirit and have already begun work on my entry that uses the spirit move with feature......

ALSO... spirit is ment as a base to build mods onto not as a stand alone mod, so people arn't expected to have it, it should be included with the entry/mod

cool. Like that movie on the submarine with Sean Connery?

@muppet: see? perfect situation for spirit.
Still I think that this compo should stay pure HL, since most people, icluding me, started mapping without spirit already.
But it'd be nice to have the next compo a spirit one.

kol said:

Spirit: Is a modification therefore not Pure HL

As I said two times before, about 80% HL. That's why it's called Spirit of Half-Life.

7th surprisingly said:

Don't be suprised when Andy deletes this lot.

I doubt that Andy would do this. He is a moderator of a forum where a quite big community can discuss their oppinions. He could, and seemingly does, ignore the whole discussion. Deleting it though, would be anti-social.

Only because he said in the first post "End of the Spirit discussion....", immediately ignored. I would've started another thread for debating this, but I agree with Andy and Vassy on this one.

no-one here every agrees with me

Poor BL.
Well, to make you a favour, I'll agree with your second post, not with the first one though.

theres not going to be a spirit compo, the mods minds are set and theres buggerall you can do. now shut up. end of discussion. made very clear.

I do not intend to carry on with this discussion.
But you, ministeve, should reconsider your tone. You're one of more than one thousand members here. Everbody has a different oppinion and right to express it, as long and as excessive as he wants.

heres my opinion: knarph!

sorry bout that

youve started this up again. i did consider my tone, but it had been said twice already. no spirit. for the 3rd time (and using brats words)

=FIN=

You did not understand my post.
I do not want you as my opponed or even enemy. So I won't say anything else. Just one thing, the last post concerning the spirit discussion was written on 22 Jun 04 13:11.
I'll leave it at that. And I hope neither you nor any one else here is mad at me after that spirit thing.

Ah ah ah.. you said spirit! Don't say the magic word!

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Just one thing, the last post concerning the spirit discussion was written on 22 Jun 04 13:11.

13:11? I don?t have anything posted at that time. I live propably nearly on the other side of the globe. If you wanted to use clock and tell some time could it be posted as GMT (greenwich mean time or something...) so even a simple person like me would know what time you meant.

AYYEEE!!!
FIN MEANS FIN!

=FIN=

I respect and value the opinions of our members. That however, does not mean I have to change my own.

For this Compo, Spirit is not allowed.

Seventh was close.... If this had been in Map's and Mods forum, I would have deleted it regardless of the content.

Oh, and something else while we are on the "Build a machine" subject...
I will not be the only Judge.

someone should just dlete these extra posts about spirit.

=FIN=

is a rug considered a machine?

is a rug considered a machine?

lol!

My map is allready done, just need a few tweaks, like adding in the machine

Heh, same. It's got a fair bit of pointless show-offy stuff in at the beginning, I've only just got to the machine.

Hey blue, at the moment you're whining most here.
The spirit discussion has ended 2 days ago already.
So please stop spamming and do whatever you think it takes to win this compo.
=FIN= hopefully!

well if im not allowed to use spirit then im not entering.

ohhhh! just read back. does this mean that the winner of each comp gets to set the theme for the next one? cos im entering if thats the case.

It is.
So enter!

Okay, I'll leave this I guess.

Last post now. Any more questions, start another thread without mentioning Spirit

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