Buying a computer... Created 18 years ago2006-03-02 19:32:09 UTC by Elon Yariv Elon Yariv

Created 18 years ago2006-03-02 19:32:09 UTC by Elon Yariv Elon Yariv

Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 19:32:09 UTC Post #166018
My father wants to buy a newer computer. He doesn't want and know how to build one so don't even start with the stupid comments! :x

He looked in a store's website and saw two computers that intrested him:

1) AMD Athlon 3200 64Bit
Mother board:MSI Nforce 4 or ASUS(which one is better?)
Prossesor:AMD Athlon 3200 64BIT, can be upgraded to AMD 3800 DUAL CORE with extra payment
Memory:512MB DUAL DDR
Screen card:PCI-Express or ATI Radeon RX 1300 PRO 256MB
Hard Drive:120GB SATA 7200RPM

2) Intel Pentuim 4 64 BIT 3.0GHz
Mother Board:ASUS Chipset Intel 945 or MSI's Pentuim 4's Mother Board.
Prossesor:Intel Pentuim 4 64 BIT 2MB 3.0GHz can be upgraded to DUAL CORE 2.8 with extra payment.
Memory:512MB DUAL DDR2 533MHz
Screen card:GEFORCE 6200 or UPTO 256MB RADEON x300 128MB
Hard Drive:120GB SATA

Which one is better? The perpose of the computer is to use complex and heavy animation programs like maya so we prefer that it will be as good as possible.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 20:18:32 UTC Post #166035
It looks as though comp 2 would be better. It supports DDR2, which is cheaper, and the 'future' or RAM.

Only downside on both is the RAM amount. 512 MB is a low for a new computer.
Luke LukeLuke
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 20:21:32 UTC Post #166036
The graphics cards on Computer 2 really suck. Heck, I'm running a 6600GT on my piece of crap rig right now!

You'll want Dual Core for a start - more power on the CPU. 512mb is definately not enough RAM either - 1 gig is the MIMINUM these days. Make sure the motherboard supports PCI-E 16x, which is the connection you'll need for a decent graphics card.
AJ AJGlorious Overlord
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 20:26:18 UTC Post #166038
Are you guys sure that I'll need 1gig of ram to run maya smoothly. I don't need computer games for this computer or anything, just ability to run heavy and advenced animation programs.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 20:28:44 UTC Post #166039
Of course you need a gig! Heavy and advanced animation programs specifically need more RAM! :P

Besides, if you ever wanted to do an OS upgrade in the near future to Vista, then you're gonna need at least a gig, if not two or more.
AJ AJGlorious Overlord
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 20:37:32 UTC Post #166040
Anything less than a Gig nowadays is a joke. You won't be able to run any new games with less than a Gig.
satchmo satchmo“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett”
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 20:41:26 UTC Post #166041
I don't want new games!! :furious: This computer is for my brother's studies in animation.

Thank for the info ant.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 20:42:22 UTC Post #166042
He said he wasn't going to be running any games... But that doesn't mean he doesn't need a Gig!

EDIT: Whoops! 1 minute late!

Man, can half you guys even see the [E] that's next to your names? - Ant
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-02 23:23:28 UTC Post #166050
Any program remotely like Maya is gonna need at least a gig, i even recomend 2.
Luke LukeLuke
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-03 08:10:37 UTC Post #166064
Which graphics card do you recommend?
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-03 10:15:19 UTC Post #166085
He has already stated that it isn't for gaming.

1gig is not "more than enough", it's minimum.

Also, I've heard the "my brother should know" talk before, from another member. hm.........
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-03 11:06:16 UTC Post #166090
1GB is minimum. And that's a fact, if you like it or not. Animation apps require alot of RAM.
m0p m0pIllogical.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-03 13:59:27 UTC Post #166102
Holy shit! :aghast: Well... I better tell my father about that... sheesh, my brother's studies cost alot of money!!

Any other suggestions for a graphics card?
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 09:21:11 UTC Post #166263
Yeah, don't listen to Crystalman for a start. :x

Go for the slowly become low range cards - something like the 6600GT which is a good, dependable card. Or you can go the ATi equivalent, which is, as I recall, the x800.

The 6600GT supports shader model 3, but some people have noticed that its implementation in nVidia based cards is overly fake - personal preference in my opinion. I suggest the 6600GT because it has shader model 3 - it may be a little more sustainable than the x800 (which doesn't have it, only the high end ATi cards have it).

As for the RAM: 1 gig is the minimum, no questions asked. 256 is simply ludicrous, and 512 is laughable. m0p is right. And yes, you are gonna have to spend some cash, unless you're really hanging out for a piece of shit computer. Your choice.
AJ AJGlorious Overlord
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 09:46:58 UTC Post #166270
1 gig is the mimimum for any computer if you want something SUSTAINABLE. You seem to be missing the key word here. Why buy some piece of crap PC with shitty specs because its cheap if it'll last you a month before slowing down?

I'd also like to find out just how smooth BF2 is on medium. 15fps isn't exactly smooth.

Besides, the 6600GT is cheap. Around $200-$300 here, which is a good price for a decent card.

I have 512mb of RAM and a P4 1.5ghz on a 6600GT and HL2 runs like a disabled donkey. Keep in mind that Elon wants it for ANIMATION PROGRAMS, which tend to suck juice REALLY quickly.
AJ AJGlorious Overlord
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 09:48:58 UTC Post #166271
512MiB is poor.

DDR2 is pointless at the moment. You can't future-proof computers, accept it.

I've called in my rendering comrade to advise, anyway, so you may have some less gaming-orientated comments shortly.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 09:53:39 UTC Post #166277
Depending on what you do, obviously.

DDR2 will be superseded by DDR3 anyway. GFX cards have supported it for a while.
AJ AJGlorious Overlord
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 10:51:03 UTC Post #166286
Hi, I'm a Maya user myself (the guy that Seventh-Monkey referred to), so let me see if I can help out.

Firstly, if you're gonna be running any 3D package you'll need at least a Gig of RAM, off the bat. 512 won't cut it. Heck, a gig barely cuts it (that's what I use, and rendering is unstable to say the least, and it's also slower due to the lack of RAM). RAM is extremely important for doing 3D graphics, more so to some extent than your 3D card.

I'd recommend getting as much ram as you can afford. 2 Gig is good, 4 Gig is ideal.

Something that is often misunderstood by people who run 3D applications is where the graphics card is used. It's not really used for the rendering (unless you purchase a specialist 3D card aimed at Maya/Max users) all that much, but is infact used for displaying the viewports within the application. You need a decent graphics card in order to keep your feedback in the viewports at optimum. The less powerful your card, the quicker your viewports can become bogged down. There's nothing more frustrating than having to wait five minutes to rotate your viewport because your card can't cope with the poly count. It slows you right up, which is bad for productivity. I use a Radeon 9800XT and, for what I do, it copes fairly well. However, I'd recommend getting perhaps the 2nd latest generation of card (due to the fact that the prices are always a lot cheaper than the latest iteration of cards, and the performance difference isn't too great). I've heard a lot of speculation that nVidia cards are better for 3D than ATI. Whilst I use an ATI card without problems, it could well be true that an nVidia card would offer me even more performance. It's something I need to look into because I'm going to be building a new 3D workstation rig this summer, as high spec as I can afford, ready for when I go to university to take a 3D-Animation degree.

However, rendering is another key issue with 3D. Noone in 3D likes rendering, it's always the downside, an uphill battle between quality/detail and render times. When rendering, 2 elements are vital. RAM (as previously stated) and your CPU. It is infact the CPU that will be the main factor that effects render times. It's the CPU that's the raw power producing those frames. A dual core CPU (or dual CPUs) are ideal for 3D. Maya will eat up all that extra power with pleasure (though I think you might need to config maya to use all available processors at render time, because I'm not sure if it sees dual cores as seperate processors or not). The amount of RAM you have basically effects how much data you can have in your scene when you go to render out. If you have too many polys, for example, and you don't have enough RAM then Maya will probably crash on you part way through the render. Which is never good. And, if you are lacking RAM, then you'll end up having to use virtual RAM, which will cause a major slow down with rendering.

Yes, your graphics card will have some play in rendering. I'm not sure exactly how much, but definately some. I think that Maya will draw on the processing power of the card for rendering, but the main use of the card, like I say, is for the real time viewport display.

To recap:
512Mb of ram WILL NOT CUT IT!
1 Gig of ram BARELY cuts it.
2 Gig is good. 4 Gig is better :)

Graphics cards aren't as important as you might think. Put money towards the RAM and CPU before the graphics card.

The CPU is important. Dual core or Dual CPUs are a definate bonus.

You might want to head over to www.3dbuzz.com and have a search through the threads there. It's a 3D focused community, of which I've been a member for a good few years (lookout for 'stevetwist', that's me ;)). There are always threads of this nature popping up, and there are a lot of people who know their stuff.

Hope this helps out. If it does then you should thank Seventh for contacting me ;)

Steve
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 11:10:08 UTC Post #166294
Wow. That was quite a post. I think that's about as definitive as you're going to get here.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 12:24:36 UTC Post #166307
I would go with number 1 elon. The video adapter in number two sucks I've had the same one. Even though a RADEON x1300 is a good card in number one, do you really need that much power. Heh, my little eMachines budget build runs HL2 like a dream since I added a GeForce 6800GT OC. Its also got a 520W PSU and 1 GIG of DDR SDRAM lol. Just remember not to buy what you dont need!

I would also like to point out that to run HL2 decently you need at least a GeForce 6600 or a Radeon X500. These cards run HL2 well and have plenty of video memory. Since HL2 is a resource demanding game, I have upgraded to 256MB of seperate card memory with the 6800. It was amusing running it with the integrated graphics that came with my system though. Can anyone say "no detail at all?"
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 13:38:25 UTC Post #166333
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I had doubled the RAM. The system came with 512MB.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 13:45:58 UTC Post #166342
I think we've had the best answer necessary. This isn't a gaming rig.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-04 14:53:53 UTC Post #166359
Hmmm, in that case if this computer is for animation studies...I would still find a system that could support any programs that may be used on it. What are the programs that will be used? - 3Ds Max, AutoCAD, Inventor etc...

I know that in order to run most Autodesk products, 512MB of RAM is good and at least a mid-stream graphics card would do the trick.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-06 17:41:31 UTC Post #166734
If you tell me how much you want to spend on the PC i can ask some friends of mine to spec you a good animation PC that you will be able to overclock slightly for better performance.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-06 19:07:01 UTC Post #166755
Elon Yariv doesn't seem like the overclocker type, there seems to be of intelligence absent which he requires.
m0p m0pIllogical.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-06 19:38:17 UTC Post #166757
Fellas, we're not talking about a gaming PC here. I don't think we're going to get a more 3D-orientated reply here than Crichton's.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-06 22:08:08 UTC Post #166768
Which, incidently, matched up mostly to what I've been saying. :D

Listen to Crichton's advice, Elon.
AJ AJGlorious Overlord
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-07 11:37:00 UTC Post #166817
yep, all you need is raw processing power and lots of ram.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-07 12:55:56 UTC Post #166835
Although im an AMD fan i always thought that the Pentium was the better CPU for animation etc
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-07 12:58:30 UTC Post #166836
ya, intels generally do better with things like encoding and rendering.

and Ant, you can't say that the 6600 sucks. your computer isn't a good way to judge it, especially in HL2. your CPU needs to be better, right now its bottlenecking due to the physics calcs going through it and the video data its sending the card.
Posted 18 years ago2006-03-07 17:52:52 UTC Post #166889
Drifting off-topic. Much as we all love to chatter about technical sheezy, I think it's time to stop it here :P.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
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