Dunce Americans

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-24 21:22:18 UTC Post #176577

Stuff here like "America's economy is going down the tubes" and "America is in dept up to its eyes" are all pointless arguments. Heres why:

During WWI, Britan, France and Germany all purchased enormous amounts of supplies for war from the US when the US was still Neutral. (BTW at the end of WW1 America came in and literally saved Britan and France by stopping Germany's already advancing army by its numbers, so if it wasnt for us in WW1 and 2, Britan and France would be occupied by Germany) After the war, Germany, Britan, and France were all in severe depression and dept. Enormous amounts were owed to the US. The US wiped the dept clean from Germany, Britan and France FOR FREE. It then helped each country regain its power by loans and more money! So to sum it up, we saved Britain, France, helped Germany, and wiped the dept from all three of them that was owed to us. This is all PURE FACT, and if you dont think so, go read your history book.......

What Im trying to show is that now that we are in dept, there is no need to bring it up. We have done so much for others and saved so many countries from the brink of destruction more than once.

BTW, our economy really isnt in decline. THe only thing wrong here is Gas is high (but low compared to Europes) and healthcare sucks.

We dont get any "Free" oil from Iraq. I wish we did so I dont have to pay alot for gas

Every country was saved or helped by another. France helped us in the Revolutionary war for example. Its not a matter of stating random good deeds, its a point of illustrating we are not barbaric idiots who are ignorant war mongers.

End of mother fuckin rant!

Xyos212

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 02:42:31 UTC Post #176596

America IS in massive massive debt though, you cant argue with that

Jobabob

Hugh

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 02:57:45 UTC Post #176598

The reason the US wiped the debts wasn't from its generosity, it was more that Germany's debts from WW1 were the reason for WW2.

Hugh

Seventh-Monkey

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 03:26:13 UTC Post #176602

Dept. = department, Xyos.

Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty

ZombieLoffe

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 03:46:37 UTC Post #176605

Stop whining about the gas prices already, it's more expensive here.

ZombieLoffe

nickelplate

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 09:08:55 UTC Post #176631

Cars are bigger here, Loff

nickelplate

pepper

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 09:23:12 UTC Post #176634

Xyos, in that time America was dependend on Europe for trade, since literaly the whole world lay in ashes.

pepper

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 17:35:37 UTC Post #176708

Sorry to say Pepper, but your wrong. We were not dependent for trade. It was thr roaring 20's where electricity was mastered, and products such as the washer, dryer, vaccum, hair dryer, automobile, etc were manufactured in the US. We sustained our economy through our own buisness.

Yes, it was not for generosity, it was to gain more money for us by expanding our trade. If the countries were forced to pay, they would of fallen. But, if they bought our products, over time it would pay off more for us. That is why the dept was wiped clean.

Also, the US is not the only ones in massive dept. Almost every major country is in dept. Dept on a contitental platform is different than when people are in dept.

Xyos212

Seventh-Monkey

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 17:44:37 UTC Post #176709

[m]DEBT[/m]

Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty

Archie

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 17:50:46 UTC Post #176710

i want the [m] tags!

ArchieGoodbye Moonmen

Mephs

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 19:28:50 UTC Post #176731

Cars are bigger here, Loff

Only because penises are smaller, coatbuddy

Anyways, America's tendancies change with the wind. Clinton was quite a global player, then the Bush administration went schizo. First they're as isolationist, then they expect the world to jump when something happens to them.

TWHL American's, which are you? Isolationist or internationalist?

Mephs

Hugh

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 19:38:00 UTC Post #176733

Isolationist, since if we intervene in genocides and the like we're "bullies" and we shouldn't be policing the globe, if we don't, we're "selfish." So I figure don't help and keep our money.

Hugh

Mephs

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 20:33:08 UTC Post #176741

Lol. Kosovo I congratulate you on, as does the rest of the world (albeit you were freakishly bullied and goaded into but Airstrip one- err Britain). Name me ONE other genecide that America entered simply because there was a genocide and I'll eat my, hat (or headphones as it were)

[edit: scratch genocide. ANY altruistic conflict will do.]

Mephs

nickelplate

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-25 22:14:29 UTC Post #176752

Lol, small penises are funny. Not that I KNOW what one looks like cough

I'd be isolationist. I think we need to concentrate on ourselves and take care of US before we start being "The world's policeman." Like hugh says, if we don;t help everyone, we're selfish pigs. And the great satan.

nickelplate

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 02:39:10 UTC Post #176780

Isolationist, since if we intervene in genocides and the like we're "bullies" and we shouldn't be policing the globe, if we don't, we're "selfish." So I figure don't help and keep our money.

Remind me of that time when america stopped darfur from happening because it was more important than the great and terrible genocide that was Iraq

Jobabob

Hugh

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 03:18:04 UTC Post #176782

Maybe I mistook Mephs "TWHL Americans, which are you" for our beliefs rather than that of America's. Either way isolationism would be right since America didn't go into Darfur as you so kindly point out.

Hugh

nickelplate

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 12:00:45 UTC Post #176828

Yeah, hugh, you selfish bast0rds didn't go to darfur! Why didn't you stop BULLYING the Iraqis and go HELP the Darfurians.

nickelplate

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 13:08:32 UTC Post #176849

Lets turn this from religious discussion into a 'was it right for american to invade iraq' debate, I say No, there are much more pressing matters in the world and the fact Iraq is on one of the worlds largest oilfields was obviously a contibutory factor

Jobabob

nickelplate

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 13:21:51 UTC Post #176851

I don't know if it was RIGHT to do, but I'm glad we did anyway. I just wish we'd have taken it over instead of "turning it over to a new government." We could lower oil prices, were we in OPEC. Plus a better place from which to attack Iran.

nickelplate

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 13:35:29 UTC Post #176857

The one that actually has those pesky WMDs, would be rather difficult to invade compared to Iraq though and those crazy darfurians are still bleating 'please, help us', stop barking at the moon you silly sand people

Jobabob

pepper

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 13:45:35 UTC Post #176863

America was never, and will never be able to sustain on itself Xyos, invention means nothing when you cant sell them.

pepper

Kasperg

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 13:53:54 UTC Post #176864

a better place from which to attack Iran.

Why would anyone want to attack Iran? Because they're investigating nuclear energy?

Quiz: Name a country that has nuclear weapons and has killed more than 300.000 civilians with them.

Kasperg

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 14:16:28 UTC Post #176866

Pepper, I was not saying invention means anything. I was giving examples of the products that was sold to Americans by Americans in the 20's. Apparantly Pepper, America was able to sustain its economy during and after WW1. This is not opinion, but fact. Go read a history book if yo disagree.....

You really dont understand how economy works do you? Its a universal trade with all countries throughout the world. Trade is essential for prophit for any country. No country could sustain itself today, but America did during and after WW1, and saved France, Britain, and Germany's economy...

Also, did you know after WW1, France and Britain made Germany give up its army and it was only limited to a national guard? Also, they made them sign a letter officially stating they were the cause of WW1, and they were sorry (When in fact it was the Serbs who caused it) They also limited their re-growth. Did you know Hitler's main hatred for France and Britain was because of the humilation Britain and France did to Germany after WW1? It was a driving force for drumming up support for Hitlers cause.

There was one country who didnt want to punish Germany this way, and knew what it would cause........Can you guess? Which country would be so insightful that they would put the future and reason before anger? Well that country was none other than America........Isnt that something?

That is all historical facts too. Too lazy to read a history book, look it up on Wikipedia then.........

Xyos212

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 14:20:41 UTC Post #176867

America was fully isolationist upto WW2, I thought everyone knowed that. It wasnt until they realised its probably a bad idea to let Europe be taken over by a madman/pearl harbour when their foreign policy changed.

Our countries are so different now though that you can't draw that many parallels, hell the UK was practically a socialist nation only 30 years ago.

Jobabob

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 14:40:19 UTC Post #176869

I hate badmouthing Britain and France (espically France, Napoleon is one of my favorite people) but it was needed to contradict Pepper's ignorant response. America makes mistakes too. Hell why the hell did we go to Vietnam and stay and get owned? We all have/had/will have problems. Decisions dont define countries.

I say all future wars should be fougt by leaders of one country playing the leaders of another country in 10 rounds of CSS. Whoever wins wins the war. hackers will not be tolerated. Those are the rules of war.

Xyos212

Gwil

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 14:40:43 UTC Post #176870

Hey Xyos, most of what you said about the Treaty of Versailles (or, "a letter", as you call it) is wrong.

You're also wrong about what started the First World War.
You're also wrong about the USA not punishing Germany.
You're also wrong about Hitlers "hatred" for Britain (and arguably France)
You're also wrong about how economy works.

You're also wrong about using Wikipedia as a source to back up your statements. You can't trust a freely editable encyclopedia, and there's large swathes of pages on there that are wrong or are directly contradicted by other articles.

Gwil

nickelplate

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 14:56:18 UTC Post #176873

Wikipedia = free term papers.

nickelplate

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 15:12:43 UTC Post #176875

thats generally true about the internet as well gwil, its harder to reference books on a forum though

Jobabob

Gwil

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 15:18:18 UTC Post #176876

Oh indeed Job, but when you're making grandiose points about how the American administration is all loving and benevolent, it's probably better to cite something other than Wikipedia as the fount of all knowledge

Gwil

pepper

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 15:39:27 UTC Post #176877

Thank you Gwil.

Xyos, dont tell me to go read a history book, ive read dozen of books on this subject.

I know nothing about economy? Then why dont you bring up the negative foreign trade balance of America? Oh, you never heard of it.

pepper

satchmo

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 15:40:41 UTC Post #176878

Someone should teach a course on how to pick out reliable information from the Internet.

That skill will be essential for survival in the near future.

satchmo“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett”

pepper

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 15:45:35 UTC Post #176881

Behold!

pepper

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 15:50:51 UTC Post #176883

Um, Im not wrong. Its all fact. Did you even try finding this information, or are you just saying its wrong because you are an absolute idiot?

Xyos212

pepper

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 16:01:33 UTC Post #176885

Why should we try to prove your point?

pepper

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 18:13:57 UTC Post #176913

Fine Pepper want me to find these facts? I will. I will find all of them from a reliable source and prove them. They are all truth.

BTW I used the wikipedia as a remark for mocking people for being lazy not reading books. I dont use Wikipedia for information. Read carefully next time.

Xyos212

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 18:36:20 UTC Post #176917

if you dont use wikipedia for information what do you use it for? vandalism?

Jobabob

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 18:38:10 UTC Post #176918

Whos to say I use Wikipedia at all? Its all user created. Not good for information. Precisely why I mentioned it in the manner I did in my previous post.

Xyos212

Seventh-Monkey

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 18:52:34 UTC Post #176922

Yeah, the fact that the information is written by people makes it inherently invalid.

Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty

Gwil

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 19:17:54 UTC Post #176926

Xyos212 - i've studied the Treaty of Versailles for 6 years, i've been in the Palace where it was signed, i've read numerous books, watched 2/3 films and I am currently studying for a Degree in History.

Everything you say is pretty much wrong, I assure you.

Gwil

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 19:19:19 UTC Post #176927

Oh never mind the fact i've stood on the ground where tens of thousands of men were slaughtered at a time. And my father is a History teacher.

I assure you, everything you say is wrong.

Gwil

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 19:27:25 UTC Post #176928

I am actually not making this up to seem "all knowing" and arrogant. I learned this from my History teacher last year in my history class. If you think I am really wrong, then I will have to find out for myself. If so, my teacher was a big fat liar then.......

EDIT: I am almost 100% sure that Britain and France (and America) made Germany disarm, and force acceptance for the war. America didnt want this, but eventually gave in. Thats what I was trying to say. How could you say thats false? Its true!

Xyos212

Gwil

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 19:32:27 UTC Post #176930

Some of what you say has arguments and truths to it but it's not the accepted historical explanation. As I say your points have elements of truth in, but they in no way explain why, how the events happened in the way they did before and after the war.

Ironically even Wikipedia will explain what happens with the Treaty of Versailles - and when you look at World War II in progress you can see Hitlers attitude toward Britain (even pre war with Chamberlain) and the impossible nature of things like Operation Sealion.

History is a topic of factors - you can never say "this is the one reason why x did/didn't happen".

Gwil

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 19:36:08 UTC Post #176931

More importantly, and with no disrespect - what age are you studying this at? Education is engineered to be relevant to the understanding you (and your class) can comprehend.

I started enjoying History aged... 11 ? We did WW1 and why it happened - the reasons then were "Franz Ferdinand got shot, Germany attacked France through Belgium"

As you go on you see that in reality events were far, far more complex than this.

Gwil

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 19:57:44 UTC Post #176937

I learned it last semester in my Western Civ class. Its a college history class, so I dont know if any information would be lacking. I know the causes, I was not addressing the causes. (Another reason was land Germany wanted from Russia) I was addressing the aftermath preluding to WW2.

MAybe you are right. Maybe I have to learn more on the subject. Unfortunatly my major isnt history. I just took the course as a pre-requisite for my major. Perhaps I needed to look more in-depth. Looking back on my previous post, I suppose I was slanted too much towards making America look like an Angel. I have to stop thinking like that

Thanks for the honest resonse Gwil

I didnt mean to demene your knowledge of history

Xyos212

Gwil

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 20:16:41 UTC Post #176940

Oh don't worry about that - mine is far from complete and very flawed in places! The only thing that "wound me up" was the American slant on it ( I blame all 4 powers ).. - I hate getting into historical arguments because (for all I said earlier this thread against it) I do get on my high horse, but it pains me to see historical arguments debated without proper consideration of all the factors.

You have a very good point toward Americas stance on Versailles though - Woodrow Wilson - despite some animosity in his terms of the treaty - was the fairest of the 4 powers deciding how to deal with Germany. Whether this was a vested interest or not is another issue, but had America had the power to force the hands of Britain (and especially France) to a more agreeable, fair deal for Germany, Hitler would probably have never been in power.

Strange when you think about it..

Gwil

Xyos212

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 22:05:58 UTC Post #176945

Knowing what I do about Germany, I dont blame them for siding with Hitler. They were starving after the war, not to mention their children starving. (Usually when the children start losing food, it gets pretty ugly) They were feeling inadaquite from everyone else from the loss of WWI. Hitler offered food, better lives, and pride. It was gradual as he introduced his views. They were went along with because he took care of the people. Its not people of a country that causes war, its the leaders. The people just wanted to eat and live like everyone else. I blame the individual, not the country.

Xyos212

nickelplate

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-26 23:47:43 UTC Post #176951

Yeah, Germans are VERY proud people with a large feeling of entitlement. They just wanted their pride back. Hitl0r gave it to them ANd gave them a scapegoat.

nickelplate

Tosse

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-27 00:07:30 UTC Post #176952

The swedish youth isn't much better than the amercians... Ask a teen in sweden anything that doesn't involve alcohol, sex or something that just been on tv the answer will be "ehm... dork!"

Tosse

satchmo

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-27 01:35:18 UTC Post #176954

...but at least the Swedes aren't invading other countries for oil and aren't claiming that they're the best and most powerful people on Earth.

Us damn Americans, on the other hand...

satchmo“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett”

Jobabob

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-27 03:07:25 UTC Post #176961

Austria has the best marketing department in the world, repatriating Hitler as a German was a masterstroke.

Jobabob

Dunce Americans Created 18 years ago2006-04-08 11:58:23 UTC by satchmo