Deep thinking Created 12 years ago2011-07-08 07:39:29 UTC by zeeba-G

And you know goddamned well you're not going to get [polite] 'answers'.

Wow you proved your own point.

you're dropping comments that you know are going to provoke him

If you find these fundamental questions provoking then you are just another one of those who thinks that religion shouldn't be open for discussion.

you're still bringing up the exact same thing as before.

Because we still haven't had those questions answered. Even a simple "I don't know" would suffice.

But on the opposite extreme, if you leave them out of religion until they're older, then chances are they'd have grown up around a lot of atheist kids who believe religion is bullshit and people who believe it are complete morons, and then they grow up to hate religion.

Atheists have no orginisation. We don't gather a few times a week and promote our message as the religious do in their churches or synagogs or mosques. And we don't sit around and bash religion. I grew up with atheists and I found out about god and all that trough my Christian cousins and later in school. I decided for myself that I didn't want to believe in it.

But on the opposite extreme, if you leave them out of religion until they're older, then chances are they'd have grown up around a lot of atheist kids who believe religion is bullshit and people who believe it are complete morons, and then they grow up to hate religion.

Good point. There's no favorable situation.

Oh, and I fucking hate dish soap. Why do I have to wash my hands 100 times after I use it huh? It's not fair!

If you find these fundamental questions provoking then you are just another one of those who thinks that religion shouldn't be open for discussion.

NineTnine believes that some people can perform thought-based time travel because he read it in a book.
Know what else he believes in because he read it in a book?
Yeah.

With such obviously flawed views (and that was only one example) which most sane Christians are sensible enough to disagree with, why do you buy into the other stuff? If half of it is proven bullshit, why do you insist on believing the other half?

Why won't you think for yourselves?!

These aren't questions, these are questions that are deliberately intended to provoke people who believe in religions. I have no religious views, and I personally believe religions are bullshit, but to constantly shove "You can't think for yourself" down somebody's throat constantly, is worse then just believing in a religious god to me.

Excuse me, but a question came to mind.

You said that a kid who is raised in a religious family will have more chances of being religious when he'll grow up.

Then how about a kid who is raised by a gay couple, will that kid have more chances of being attracted to his own gender? (or think it's right to do so from the start, since kids have sensitive minds at early ages?)

These are 2 different subjects, but I hope you understand the link.

@Crollo

NineTnine believes that some people can perform thought-based time travel because he read it in a book.
Know what else he believes in because he read it in a book?
Yeah.

Ninetnine had provoked us too. You get what you give.
That was the only instance anyone of us attacked him personally.

With such obviously flawed views (and that was only one example) which most sane Christians are sensible enough to disagree with, why do you buy into the other stuff? If half of it is proven bullshit, why do you insist on believing the other half?

So you're saying those views aren't flawed?
And the rest of it is a genuine question. If one half is bullshit and you know it, then why believe the other half? I don't see the problem with this quotation at all.

Why won't you think for yourselves?!

It's a follow up to the last quote and is almost a compliment since it means that they have the capability to think for themselves and form their own opinions instead of following an organised religion, but they choose not to. How come?

/jumps in the thread

Striker the notion that gays raise more gay kids is incorrect.

/jumps the fuck out of the thread.

I wonder why. Is sexuality genetic? That would explain why they don't.

Then how about a kid who is raised by a gay couple, will that kid have more chances of being attracted to his own gender?

That's a bit unfair. "Real" gay people don't have a choice; they're born that way. I have several gay friends. :/

I'm sure there are exceptions though.

There are definitely exceptions. One of my gay friends actually decided to try it after he got dumped by his girlfriend in a particularly heartless way. He now prefers it and I don't think he's ever looked back.

I mean, you could say he was born with it and only just discovered it, I guess.

"Real" gay people don't have a choice; they're born that way

Who told you that? Lady Gaga?

I don't know why, I want to agree, but this idea about people being born gay seems a bit improper to me.

Striker the notion that gays raise more gay kids is incorrect.

I didn't say that. I asked that.

I guess in the sense that the kid would see it as being more "normal" at an early age, it would have an impact, yes.

Although if the kid got mocked at school for having same-sex parents, it might alienate them against the notion.

Who told you that? Lady Gaga?

Who told you that it wasn't? You don't have to answer me but I honestly want you to think about it.

[edit] In case you were serious... all of medical science, biology, and psychology says so.

Anyways... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qQQXTMih1A&feature=related

Back to deep thinking? I learned some snakes have thermal vision. You guys should check the rest of these out some are rather interesting.

Who told you that? Lady Gaga?

My gay friends, if you must know. :/

I sat in a box, and I went 5 minutes into the future, was epic.

I've invented a time machine that can take you a whole hour into the future, in only 60 minutes!

It's a follow up to the last quote and is almost a compliment since it means that they have the capability to think for themselves and form their own opinions instead of following an organised religion, but they choose not to. How come?

Probably because those that can, take off as soon as they realise what's wrong. I was raised as a roman catholic and by the time I was about 10 I realised it was a lot of bullshit and took off. That doesn't mean I hate it or disrespect it, I just don't want to believe it myself.

While we're on topic, I wonder what do the kind of Christians that dislike Jews feel knowing Jesus himself was JEWISH.

We should all just be friends.

While we're on topic, I wonder what do the kind of Christians that dislike Jews feel knowing Jesus himself was JEWISH.

I can tell you.

Once Jesus died on the cross for our sins, the Jews would not admit it. They seperated and the Jews started to murder people afterwards who were believing in Christianity.

Today, we are seperated because they still believe in the Torah and only the Torah, while we have added onto that making the Christian Bible. So, yeah Jesus was Jewish, but Jesus didn't deny that Jesus died on a cross.

@Stu
May I ask if you believe in anything else now? Just out of curiosity.

I believe in Me.

OK seriously... I don't know. I believe in logical thought, which as far as I know isn't a valid religion Also it's probably against the teachings of most religions, it would seem to me.

I believe everything has a rational explanation behind it. Hence if you come and tell me some guy came down from the heavens sent by a higher being, or that a higher being helped some other guy pull off some magic tricks like parting the seas and something or others, I won't buy it. Might have worked well in the middle ages, when science and rational thought weren't quite as advanced and ignorant masses were expected to blindly believe pretty much anything they were told if that served to control them, but at this time and age we should know better.

Might have worked well in the middle ages, when science and rational thought weren't quite as advanced and ignorant masses were expected to blindly believe pretty much anything they were told if that served to control them, but at this time and age we should know better.

That phrase tickles me.

Wow, topics all over the place.

So Hunter, your beef isn't with believeing in god or following the commandments or anything like that, you just find following organised religion and story in the bible absurd?

Someone I know said she became bisexual after she was so hurt by her father cheating on her mother.

I guess being able to see in thermal isn't so unrealistic, it's just being able to sense a different wavelength of the same stuff as the light we've already got.

I thought the Pokémon thing I said would generate a bit of discussion, but religion really sticks to these threads, dunnit?

EDIT: Now I think about it, "became" might not be the right word. But what else would you say?

I believe everything has a rational explanation behind it. Hence if you come and tell me some guy came down from the heavens sent by a higher being, or that a higher being helped some other guy pull off some magic tricks like parting the seas and something or others, I won't buy it.

That's how you see it.

I believe everything that has a rational explanation behind it: Some guy came down from the heavens sent from God, for he had put himself in that body. Not magic tricks, but miracles. He managed miracles to prove himself and miracles still happen today.
I don't know if you've realised it yet, but us Christians tend to have happy lives and connect to each other. We attempt to keep the Sabbath day holy, like it says to in the Torah and the Bible.

We believe it mostly because it is believed that his disciples documented their travels with Jesus, which was placed into several books. They said that Jesus performed miracles because they were the ones who experienced it. Also, if you athiests arent christain, stop celebrating christmas.

Christmas is the celebration of Jesus Christ.
Also, stop using the world "Holiday"
It's from the words "Holy Day" as described in the bible.

Also, people are bothered by gay marriage because marriage is from the Bible. And I do believe the Torah. And if they say that they want to do marriage (from the Bible), shouldn't do they it by the rules? "Man and woman", as said in the Bible?

So, if you strongly disbelieve in any religion at all, then why follow some of the principles and ceremonies? Why use some of our words?

NineTnine believes that some people can perform thought-based time travel because he read it in a book.
Know what else he believes in because he read it in a book?
Yeah.

this is an unfair comment
i didnt say i belived that book, i said i read it.

the bible is a completely different kettle of fish then a book on time travel i came across in the library one day.

but I bet a large number of you were brought up in Christian families.

my sister is an atheist, my father is a Buddhist. we share our views openly and listen to each others opinions.
i came to god on my own terms.

edit.

almost a compliment since it means that they have the capability to think for themselves

i make a choice to go to church. i could simply not go if i wanted

So Hunter, your beef isn't with believeing in god or following the commandments

Following the "commandments" I still have a problem with, because it's another story from the bible. Morality doesn't require a God, and I choose to follow the rules of society because I want to be a good person, not because I want to get into heaven. My commandments come from a higher power, sure, but my country elected that higher power through democracy.

Good post, Dimbark. Genuinely. That is good, solid debate.

Also, if you athiests arent christain, stop celebrating christmas.

I agree. I don't. I just celebrate the snow and family and presents and over-eating
Don't need a holy excuse to have one day per year where all the family get together and enjoy each others' company.
Actually, I remember back in high school we had a minister (lol good job, you supposedly non-denominational school) and he tried to preach that Christmas shouldn't be about family. Representing everything outdated and wrong with the church, minister. Nice one.

stop using the world "Holiday"

Loads of words have a religious background and have adopted different meaning. In the UK, holiday means what you Americans call "vacation". There's no reason to stop using words which have evolved into new meanings. Like I said, religion was absolutely relevant in the past for exactly this sort of thing. Language, morality etc. But as I also said, it's no longer needed today.

marriage is from the Bible

No?
Humanist marriage is more common than Christian marriage these days, in the UK at least. Marriage has existed for a lot longer than the Christian faith, with evidence of it existing back in Ancient Greece & Ancient China amongst others.

if you strongly disbelieve in any religion at all, then why follow some of the principles and ceremonies? Why use some of our words?

I don't follow any of the principles or ceremonies of a religion.
Principles Such as morality and manners are part of our culture and society now.
Ceremonies? Nope. I'll be having a humanist marriage.
Words, I've already explained. They evolve to have new meanings.

The principles and ceremonies of religions were written too long ago to be relevant now is the point I'm trying to make.

We believe it mostly because it is believed that his disciples documented their travels with Jesus, which was placed into several books. They said that Jesus performed miracles because they were the ones who experienced it.

I grew 20ft tall and squished a florist the other day. Honestly, I did. I have 20 close friends who can back me up. They were there and they wrote about it.
True fact.

[edit]
Just been informed by an American that you don't use the term "humanist" much in the States, so here's a definition from wiki:
"people who seek to live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs."

Also, if you athiests arent christain, stop celebrating christmas.

Christmas has been commercialized for a long time, heheh. Coca-Cola invented santa clause, and people seem to identify Christmas with him more than Jesus. Ill celebrate it because I enjoy decadent feasts and giving/getting presents. Good family time like that is as good a reason as ever to have a holiday. Hell, lets say I celebrate Yule! Christmas absorbed many of its traditions, and its at the exact same time. I just have to keep calling it Christmas because the term "Yule" isn't as widely known.

I grew 20ft tall and squished a florist the other day. Honestly, I did. I have 20 close friends who can back me up. They were there and they wrote about it.
True fact.

^^ this.

It isn't so inconceivable that a group of people could tell everyone something happened. In a time of poorly documented history via hand-written texts (which change from writer to writer) and oral storytelling, why not?

I choose to follow the rules of society because I want to be a good person, not because I want to get into heaven. My commandments come from a higher power, sure, but my country elected that higher power through democracy.

you have a good point actually, i respect this statement

Ninetnine had provoked us too. You get what you give.

And that makes it right? Real mature.

You see, the one person I hold the highest respect to in this entire forum is Strider, for he is easily the most reputable and respectful person I'd even met of anybody I know period. Real life or internet., he doesn't have an "you piss me off then ill just piss you off more" attitude, and no matter how out-of-line something may be he will still respond in a respectful and even matter, even back with my dramatic bullshit HL2-in-HL1 mod, he was still respectful and insightful, whereas many of the members I know here will just simply go off the minute their own integrity is threatened, and will often not bother to think for two seconds if maybe just somehow, they might be wrong.

If somebody drops a smartass comment at you and you're only response is to drop a smartass comment back at them, then congratulations, you've just drooped to their lowest level.

I'm really not. My history on this site is full of stupidity and my own share of inflammatory comments.

I just don't want this thread to dissolve into another pissing match of smarmy, under your breath type comments from people who think their faith, or lack of faith is more right than the others.

I don't share the beliefs of my closest friend, but I'm not going to insult him by saying "I respect you for your belief, but FYI I think you're a mindless sheep. How do you swallow this crap?" and expecting him to give a level-headed response. It's an insult to one of the foundations he builds his life upon. I don't agree with it, but I'll accept it and concentrate on something else.

Archie, I want to respond to your huge post on the last page talking to christians.

You'r right. People should think for themselves and follow what they believe as reasonable and correct and question everything. I've been religeous all my life but never realized this until now.

Now I look back to all those people in church, standing there looking proud and like they know all and that they will be saved and live forever and everything. Its really annoying to think about. Not that there's anything wrong with them being moraly correct but when they act all knowing it becomes annoying.

I was brought up cathol;ic and now I don't agree with most any of it. You should not have to confess your sins to another sinning priest. Only to God in my opinion anyways or whatever you believe. The truth about belief is that there is no proof so no one can correct you but only let you know what they believe and hopefully listen to what you believe and consider it.

I just started dating a morman and being open minded I checked into her religion. I don't agree with much any of it and they seem like they think they are better than others because of their "more rules". I see part of my past in herself and how foolish it looks.

I'm on a questfor what I believe and I currently don't believe anything. I'm just being honest. Yes I could tell you that I believe in God but truly I am not 100 % sure I do so I can say I don't in anything. Until I delve into it a lot and though I still ust be open minded to other's beliefs.

Coca-Cola invented santa clause, and people seem to identify Christmas with him more than Jesus.

No they didn't. They just exploited him in the name of marketing. Santa Claus is way older and based on Sinterklaas, a Dutch character whose name is also Saint Nicholas (hence being referred to as Saint Nicholas in many other languages).

And that makes it right? Real mature.

I never said that makes it right. But that was the only instance of it and
we all make misstakes including both me and yourself, as you yourself stated.
End of discussion.

Oh and as huntey said, Atheists celebrate the day but not Jesus. Some celebrate the winter solestice, and other just use the day as an excuse to be with their family. I'm one of the latter. Also, I like presents.

And if they say that they want to do marriage (from the Bible), shouldn't do they it by the rules? "Man and woman", as said in the Bible?

By marriage we don't mean a huge christian ceremony at your nearest church w/ the vows, etc. The issue is legally marrying someone of the same sex.

The point is that gay couples aren't allowed to register a civil partnership under governments that disapprove of it. Thus they never receive any of the social benefits normal married/registered couples do.

I'm fine with churches not accepting same sex weddings if it's against the beliefs, but basing legislation on religious doctrine is utterly bullshit (and most likely unconstitutional in some democracies)

Christians thought dinosaur bones were either faked, or placed there by Satan to test their faiths. Even today, some people are still crazy enough to think that dinosaurs lived with man 4000 years ago.

That's creationism, and it's really not a part of mainstream christianity. Those folk are definitely a minority as far as I know.

Know what else he believes in because he read it in a book?
Yeah.

Never liked that argument. He was deranged to say the very least. You can't judge the whole group based on that.

Anyhow, just believe in what you like as far as I'm concerned. Whatever set of rules/principles you follow in life, if you're not hurting anyone, and if you try to give back to society - you're doing it right.

And if they say that they want to do marriage (from the Bible), shouldn't do they it by the rules? "Man and woman", as said in the Bible?

You ARE aware that marriage existed well before the rise of Christianity, right?

edit: also, the rules of the bible don't apply to anyone who doesn't follow the bible. The bible is not law.

I feel right now that it's important I express myself, while we're on the topic of religion. Please try to refrain from flamming me.

I consider myself a christian. Not an "organized" christian, however. I doubt I'll ever step into a church for a sunday service again. This is because organized religion is flawed, due mostly to a single reason: Human nature. In my personal experience, I stopped going because the congregation was full of bigots that decided that, since the new minister had a different style than the old one, he had to go. They kicked out the minister, and almost ruined his entire career, because he was different. Then there are all the southern preachers who are anti-islamic, and all that bullshit. Basically, there will always be racists and bigots who use religion (no matter which, except perhaps religions such as Buddhism) as a shield, and try to use it to look good and/or justify their wrong actions. This is nothing new. Remember the crusades? The Bible itself is not pure, either. It is not the word of God. The beginning is speculation by early man on how we came to be, and the rest of it, which is supposed to be historical record, was written by man, edited by the church, and as a result of those two factors, sometimes inaccurate or with a slanted POV.

That said, I do beleive in God, I beleive in an afterlife, and I consider myself a christian because I agree with Jesus' teachings of tolerance and the basic idea of "let's all get along and stop doing stupid, violent things like genocide"
Also, I beleive that it's not your beliefs that get you into heaven, but your actions. As long as you're a good person, it doesn't matter if you're Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Islamic, etc, etc, etc, or if you don't even beleive in God. Just don't kill/torture/rape people.

Great views, JeffMOD. The church should take a lesson from people like you and that minister that was kicked out.

Church should be less about gay-bashing and repenting and guilt. Read back in this thread and you'll see that poor wee Dimbark was brought up to think gay marriage is wrong. That's really genuinely saddening, and absolutely is not a message a supposedly forgiving religion should be putting forward.

That's creationism, and it's really not a part of mainstream christianity. Those folk are definitely a minority as far as I know.

I know, and absolutely agree. That's why in a previous post in this thread I said that if Christians are willing to disagree with half of their bible, why accept the other half as fact?

@Jeff: And that seems all fair and rational if you ask me.
You've noticed that the church is exploited by the wrong people and therefor taken a distance from it, and you know that the bible contains flaws.
And as far as I know, Jesus was a pretty decent guy. I just don't believe that he was the son of a god.
I can understand this sort of belief. It's all good.

But still, why call yourself a Christian? Sure you agree with the word of Jesus, which is good, but if you don't buy into the bible and you know that the church will always be exploited. Why not just say that you believe in Jesus and god?

In my personal experience, I stopped going because the congregation was full of bigots that decided that, since the new minister had a different style than the old one, he had to go.

I left a church because the youth minister got fired for no reason.

Since she got married, she hadn't spent time with one of the kids like she often did, and the kid was related to the ministry. She got fired.

But still, why call yourself a Christian? Sure you agree with the word of Jesus, which is good, but if you don't buy into the bible and you know that the church will always be exploited. Why not just say that you believe in Jesus and god?

Because it's not one simple, well-understood word, probably. Could use a name for them.

There's definitely a screw or two loose with people who think that homosexual marriage is unacceptable, if you ask me. Stuff religion in this regard. Why shouldn't they have the same rights as we do?

If there is a god that made man in his image, I'd like to believe that it wants us to become gods ourselves.
It's OK to pursue creation, and all that that implies.

Food for thought.

This is not really deep thinking, but I always wondered why some airplanes leave trails while others don't...

It's usually dependent on the engine, but I imagine the 'trail' being left can also be caused by the actual body of the airplane, because of how fast it's going.

It depends on the plane being a jet and the altitudes they are flying at.

The exhaust from a jet engine has a certain amount of water in it. At really high altitudes a jet undergoes extremely low temperatures. When a jet is at high altitudes, the water leaves in the engine exhaust at hot temperatures and condenses quickly in the cold air up there. This forms the visible trails we see, exactly the same way you can see your breath in cold temperatures.

You wont see these trails on planes if they are propeller based, or the air surrounding the plane isn't cold enough.

I worked at an airport for a while.

On garrys mod, it all depends if you set the Trail tool on it or not.

I wonder why some have LOLOLOLOLOLO while some just have smoke.

I asked that because I've read in the past about chemtrails, kind of a conspiracy theory.

I like when planes go through clouds, not only do the clouds look amazing, its funny how the plane stutters in mid air.

I was lying in bed looking up at the stars thinking "Light takes billions of years to get from there to here." Then I realized "Where the fuck is the ceiling?"

Light takes 8 minutes to get from the sun to here.

I was lying in bed looking up at the stars thinking "Light takes billions of years to get from there to here." Then I realized "Where the fuck is the ceiling?"

Wow dude, I didn't know thieves can steal a house that fast these days :/

Guys, I always wondered if there will be a way of upgrading my mind so that I can switch from "natural" to "hard-disk inspired access". If I want to switch I just... do it, you know, like you'd move your leg. You don't have to "think", just act. Then I could search through my files, folders, in a tree-like organized structure. Actually there is software for mind mapping(ex: FreeMind, open source I think). We tend to organize information that way, but... it's just that I loose fast the link between the infos. Forgetting the "folders", the absolute path, if you understand what I mean.
I can't picture the whole structure at once.

Also, if randomness generated by a computers is not authentic(well, there is random.org but that's a whole other story), then how authentic is a random number generated by our brain?

Let's see!
For testing matters, everybody spam the forum with a number you make up!

45

If you invented a time machine tomorrow, where would you go assuming that consequences to any action you take will change the future?

It's something I think about quite a lot, actually.

Quite a few people say stuff like "I'd kill Hitler or stop him being born" which is an interesting concept. I highly recommend you read Stephen Fry's "Making History" which is about that very topic. Very funny, and a very good story.

Quite a few people say stuff like "I'd kill Hitler or stop him being born"

If you invented a time machine tomorrow, where would you go assuming that consequences to any action you take will change the future?

any action you take will change the future?

the future

future

Hitler was born in the future.

...What?