Newbie Questions (/apologize) Created 17 years ago2006-05-06 22:54:58 UTC by maestr02

Ok, I am new to the Hammer editor (having just got HL2). I have been building levels and things with Unrealed through Unreal, UT and UT2k3. This editor is ALOT different, and frankly im finding a few things confusing. I will try not to ask the same newb questions that tend to get repeated alot in forums. I have tried many many tutorials up to this point and can not find these answers anywhere.

First ~ when making a level, i see alot of references in tutorials to "sealing" your level properly. Some say do / dont use a big cube and hollow it, etc. All I want to know is there something special that needs to be done to "seal" a level? Or is it properly "sealed" when the box sides are all touching each other? Also, if you use a cube and "hollow" it out to make the base "playground" for your level, to keep the engine from rendering the outside of the box cant you simply use some of the dev textures designed to keep that from happening?

Second ~ Is there any way to "intersect" a group of brushes and convert them into a single brush using the Hammer editor? Example, Say I make a doorframe out of 2 kazillion cubes, is there a way to "merge", "weld", "intersect", or otherwise "combine" all of those brushes into a single brush?

Third ~ Alot of Tutorials are referring to "func_XXX" particularly when talking about "decorations" and things like pillars, pipes, ducts, etc. Is this something I have to manually put in to a console? (if so how do i get the console up in the Hammer editor). Or is it a setting or property that I can change? (if so, where is it).

Thanking you in advance for any help.

I've been using the Unreal editor for a short time, so I might know a little about the questions you're asking, and why it seems so confusing. I mostly only map for HL1, but I think I can answer these questions (which apply to both engines) with some confidence.

First: Nothing is needed to seal a level other than making sure that nothing inside of it exposed to the big black void (there shouldn't be any "holes" in it). You shouldn't box up your map with a big cube. Also, faces that are exposed to the void are all automatically removed during the compile. There is no need to use the dev textures to remove these faces manually.

Second: There is no way to merge brushes back togethor if they are split apart, and doing so in the way you described would have created a concave brush, which is "invalid".

Third: Somebody else should probably answer this question, Although I don't think there is any console in Hammer.

I hope that explains it clearly enough.

For your third question, you simply select the object you wish to be a func_whatever, and hit the "ToEntity" button on the right hand side of your window (alternatively, hit Ctrl-T). A pop-up box will come up allowing you to select whichever entity you want.

For decorative stuff, you'll want to select func_detail. This will reduce lag in your map and make the compile faster. You'll want to use func_detail for all small details, like pillars, fences, etc.

Its amazing how much something stupid can inspire.And here is what it inspirednote Habboi and ZombieLoffe may now have actually said the above statements

thx much for the answers!

I like the description.

Welcome, maestro.

Habboi and ZombieLoffe may now have actually said the above statements

The best game I've ever played!

Sorry, I have another question :

Can 2 peices of geometry be overlapping / stuck in each other or will this create errors in the map?

It's generally a bad idea. Avoid it wherever possible.

I'll quote myself from the mapping thread:

I'd like to destroy the myth of the overlapping brushes.
While I do agree that overlapping will make HLVIS take longer (needs to make extra face splitting calculations) it will not affect HLRAD since HLRAD uses the information that has been decided in the previous process. When the RAD process occurs, those extra bits of brush have already been discarded and have absolutely no effect in the process.

In other words, it doesn't do any good but it won't cause any problems.

Thanks much Seventh-Monkey. I dont think its something that is going to be a concern actually... so many ways around it. Not used to this editor at all. I was asking about overlapping brushes because I had made some rounded walls going into a wide hallway off a room by vertex editing cubes placed around a cylinder. The problem was that the room was made 1024 units high, and the hallway was only made 512, and I made the curved hallway pieces 1024 high. So i was going to cover up the top half of the room with a big cube (which I did) but the cube would have been sitting "in" / "on top of" (otherwise sharing the same space) as the 6 curved pieces. But i ctrl-selected the 6 curved peices and just shrunk / scaled them down to 512 high, and placed the block in the wall on top of them... something I am NOT used to being able to do.... The way I would have done it was to use the "hollow" function but I frickin hate the way it fuxxors the vertices and cant even imagine how hard it would make texturing a room.

Anyway so far I am having fun. Hoping to at least get one level finished.

Good-o. I can't say I've ever mapped for an Unreal engine, but I gather everything's pretty arse-about-face. I expect lots more questions :).

Ok, next question

The level I am working on I havent yet placed a player_start or lights or anything, so I havent tested it out yet (as I have alot of holes leading to emptiness I have to fill still). When I move around in the Hammer Editor occasionally I will see a brush "disapear" and I will have to move around the camera to get it to show up in the textured window again. Is this a sign I have a leak with that brush in particular? ((as I said, I have several leaks I have yet to fill, corridor ends / etc)). Or can it be a leak from somewhere else? Or is it not a leak at all?

The hammer has a max viewable distance in the 3d view. This means that anything so many units away is clipped and covered with black. You can change how far away this happens in the options.

You may want to compile your map soon - 1024 and 512 are pretty large measurements. A normal hallway is usually around 128 units high.

Compiling often helps detecting leaks as soon as possible, and working on the grid helps preventing them. From what I've heard, leaks aren't an issue for Unreal mappers, right? It may be some getting used to...

It isnt a matter of the clipping distance regarding my disapearing brushes. Most of the time it happens I am in 3d texture perspective and am near the brush, at certain angles it disapears, you can see through where it was and can not select it in the 3d window. So its not that the object is so far away that it is no longer being rendered.

And yeah I compiled it... finally saw the "do not run map after compile" checkmark.

Unrealed has leak issues, they are referred to as "HoMs" or "Hall of Mirrors". basically the same thing, it happens alot when brushes arent aligned right, or there is a gap in the level to the outside world, or when you try to do... anything

Ok, about the size of hallways and things... most of my hallways thus far are like 256 - 512 high, and almost all of them are about 512 wide. I have a few 128'ish wide hallways but they are only for accessing a few sets of stairs. I am trying to make a DM map, so am a little uncomfortable sizing it "small". I like having more room to work with... once you start decorating... things can get messy in tight places.

When you get near a brush in the 3d view, it disappears because your location is inside the brush or it is "behind" you.

Yup. Doesn't render brushes with double-sided faces.

Ok, so I have another slew of questions at long last

I have almost finished laying out the general "floorplan" of my hl2 dm map. I just have to add one more room and a hallway. So my question is, before I start filling my level with alot of stuff, should I make the "decorations" static or dynamic?

Should I make it so all the things like pots and pans and computer monitors can be blasted around, or should I just make them "solid" and otherwise unable to interact with them?

I know its cool being able to knock over and destroy filing cabinets, its neat to shoot a pot around through a cafeteria, its lovely to see the lights swing from the impact of a grenade, so on and so forth... but to what extent do you want to use effects like these in a DM map?

Also, I havent yet lit my map, or added cubemaps, or even textured it. But I have a question about lighting maps. I have seen in a lot of tutorials say: "Alot of people use a single light to light a room, dont do that, instead use points of light". What is a "point of light"? Does this mean use more lights with a smaller light radius around the objects that actually dispense light? (lightbulbs, monitors, etc.). Or is there an actual "point of light" actor that I need to be using to do this?

Finally, Regarding Cubemaps. I am to understand that these are to placed at player height in each main room / hallway in a map. I understand that these help with lighting and reflections. But, should I place these before or after I do the texturing, lighting and decorations?

Ok, I lied, one more question. Using the Hammer editor, what is the difference between a Team DM map and a DM map? If I make a DM map will it also appear in the Team DM server list? If so, do I need to (is there a way) to set the properties in the playerstart actors to determine which team spawns at which points? ((do I have to set it up so that team A only spawns from certain spawn points and teab B spawns at a different set of spawn points?))

Thanks much for your time in advance!

Physics: Certain objects (most) in source are only prop_physics, prop dynamic, or static. They are not interchangable. Regarding the amount of physics: Its ok to put alot of physics in a map. You can put a large amount, but dont go overboard. Just type mat_graph 1 in console to monitor your FPS. ( +showbudget is more detailed) You can put a very fair amount without losing FPS so dont worry too much.

Cubemaps: Place these in areas where textures with special reflective properties or detailed light on them need a reference for lighting. Dont put them close to eachother. If its an office type map, maybe put one in the middle of each room.

In my opinion pointlighting looked better in HL1 than 2. You need to develop a keen eye of how and when to use them.

There are basically three types of lights: point lights, spot lights and dynamic lights.

I'm not sure what is meant by "points of light," particularly in contrast to "single light." They mean the same thing to me. A "point light" would (I think) be in contrast to a spotlight.

A point light ("light" entity) entity gives off light equally in all directions. A spotlight ("light_spot" entity) gives off light in a cone in a particular direction. The lighting for these two types of light are calculated during compile.

In contrast, a light_dynamic entity has several more and different properties you can play with and, perhaps most importantly, is rendered realtime during gameplay. Realtime rendering takes up CPU cycles and probably should be avoided in maps where action and response are more important (like DM).

With regard to objects like pots, pans and other kinds of fluff, I'd wait until you're done texturing and lighting to see how much of that stuff you want or need to add atmosphere to your level.

Ok, but will using the prop_dynamic actors bog down gameplay on a DM map? People are there to interact with people, not the environment.

Cubemaps: My map is a little hard to describe, but basically I have basically 5 rooms connected by hallways & catwalks. In several places you can see from one room clear through the next and into a third room. How far apart should I place my cubemaps so they arent "close" to each other?

usually one per room, make suer to select the walls you want the cubemap to affect... maybe towards the center is the best sopt. unless you want a few corners or sides more accented

Dynamics such as physics can lag source in excess amounts, or with complicated setups. In deathmatch, due to the gravity gun in HL2DM, you need to make many physics props of varying size - Monitors, file cabinets, desks, or cars are all useful and can all be physics enabled.

Place your cubemaps where areas of light and dark are conflicting or transitional. You usually need them under strong light sources as well.

I think what that quotation means is not to use single omnidirectional lights to fill a room with light - Rather to plan the lighting as it would appear in relation to light props and natural sources. Source supports a lot of lights - You can use an entity to cast light for each source, probably, as well as extra lights to fill in areas and to fake bouncing and reflection (dm_steamlab uses this technique a lot.) I'd stick to light_spot entities for the time being, unless you have a specific need to utilize omnidirectional lights (Don't get me wrong, they are useful in some situations) but spotlights are much more controllable and flexible. I generally utilize spotlights and use omnidirectional light entities with lower brightness values to create a colored light wash to lighten up the area.

There are entities for each team's start points and their presence delineates a TeamDM map. (these entities are called info_player_combine and info_player_rebel if I recall correctly.) It will interpret these to mean that it is a team oriented deathmatch map. Regular DM maps just use info_player_start/info_player_deathmatch entities.

Also, a hint - If you're having trouble with measurements look at the /dev textures. They're all properly measured and will fit exactly on their appropriate surfaces at .25 scale if your object is scaled properly in the editor.

For a good description of what cubemaps do and recommendations on where to place them, take a look at:

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Cubemaps

That wiki is generally a good resource in which to search for most anything to do with Source stuff.

Ok, this is probably something really simple

I have placed a prop_static toilot's in the bathroom, but they dont show up when playing the game. They arent fading in / out, they arent showing up at all. start fade distance is -1, end fade distance is 0. what am I doing wrong?

Never mind, ill figure it out tomorrow. I set them to prop_static_multiplayer and they showed up... but fell onto the floor lmfao.

Thats because they are set to be used with prop_physics - It is in my tutorial...

To make them hover you go to flags and select 'Motion Disabled'.

Read the tutorials here BTW

AS for selecting faces for cubemaps: Not needed. ONly with water, maybe. It makes no difference as long as its placed correctly.

Ok, next problem.

When I got HL2, I was running a crap 128mg geforce 4400. Yesterday I upgraded my video card to a 256mg geforce 6200oc. Of course, the game looks entirely different now, but so too does my map

When I loaded up the editor today and began to work again on my level, I found that it lookst he same in the editor as it did before, but now in the game the lighting is.... way different. Everything is far, far brighter.

So will the lighting in a map be different for people based on what video capabilities they are running? How do you find a happy "medium" where its not too bright and not too dark. For my old card, the level looked quite dim, but now alot of areas are really, really bright. I can see alot of props alot brighter now (particularly toilots / sinks) and its kind of killing the "gloomy" effect I was after.

If it helps, I am using more light sources, but giving them a smaller light radius, as opposed to using one or two lights with a large radius to light a room.

Also on another note, when I build my map and go to test it out, the console in the game shows about 40 lines in red regarding cubemaps and "ignoring" certain faces. Is this anything I should be concerned about? ((I have not yet added any cubemaps, the opinions on where / when to use them seem to be split right down the middle, some say only with water, some say use them anyway)).

Dont only use with water, use ALWAYS! ONly attatch a face when using with water. Otherwise just place them correctly.

As for your brightness issue: I never heard of brightness increasing after a card upgrade. DId you get the latest driver for it, and uninstall the old one? Make sure your brightness is at the normal setting in Source. You might of turned it up with your old card.

You should regulary add cubemaps when making the map. Dont do this at the end. Every compile type buildcubemaps in the console to sample lighting sources. THis might be the issue as well.

Indeed. Cubemaps have an influence on lighting. Perhapes the lighting went up in your map because your card was finally able to draw reflective surfaces correctly. Buildcubemaps will fix that issue.

I will bet you dollars to donuts that was it exactly DarkKilauea. Thanks alot. Reading this post, i realized that alot of the textures I used do have reflective qualities and I only noticed them today. they look alot different than they used to. (I have used alot of tile textures thus far, and alot of them are really shiny today when yesterday with the old card they were a flat / matt / dull color).

Im going to go through a couple of cubemap tutorials again tonight and add them in and see how it goes. Thx much for the multitude of info Xysos212.

Another question though if I may :

When I used unrealed, (for Unreal Tournament, long before 2k3 or 2k4 were released) to make a "3d" looking texture like a tile, what I would do is often make a cube, vertex edit the edges to make a "tile". I would then texture it so it looked good, then I would crank all my graphics to the roof, load it up in game and take a screenshot. Using Photoshop or Paint Shop Pro I would resize the image, touch it up a bit, make any modifications I felt it needed, then save it as a file I could load into unrealed as a texture. I could then use this single sheet texture to give the appearnce of having 3 dimensions.

So now I am trying to build things in Hammer for a HL2DM map, and I am wondering if a similar process is possible with this editor? Can I take an ingame screenshot of something, edit the picture as needed, and load that up as a "texture" for use in the game?

I would like to continue using this method to give a false impression of there being things like railings, doorframes, room borders, etc., with 3 dimensions, but made off a single surface. (instead of actually having a doorframe, jsut have a texture that "looks" 3 dimensional).

Thx much in advance, and I sincerely apologize if this is covered elsewhere in the forums or tutorials. I have been reading the forums and tutorials, but its alot to ingest and I dont retain alot of information like this until I put it into practical application.

Making custom textures in source is simple. Any picture you take can be used. Just make sure its a tga file. There is a tutorial here about it. WHat you describe sounds very feasible as long as its edited as you said with PS. Just make sure to follow the custom materials tutorial here.

There is something called a bumpmap (or normal map) that allows a texture to fake 3d. This means you no longer need to do all that work to give the illusion of depth. I suggest looking up some tutorials on making materials. You are bound to find one covering normal maps or bump maps.

Ok, so a couple of days ago I ran into a problem that I havent been able to find a solution for. I compiled my level and started to run around and check things out a bit, when BOOM! My graphics go all screwy. I can see my gun, but the texture on it is gone. The textures for most props are gone too. When I change weapons or open the console, I cant see anything in the menu's either, just a bland greyish box where the window is. I can t ype in the console, but cant see the letters I am typing. So i figure, shit, what did I do? I dont see any errors, checking the map for errors shows notta, according to my log it all appears sound =/. So I backtrack... days worth of deleted and undoing and loading older versions to no avail. I figure I shifted a brush or something, so I check each brush, one at a time for alignment. No overlaps. Ok, this has gone too far. Scrap the level.

Lets start... smaller. So I begin a new level, very very simple. Just a big "donut" like hallway around a central room with 4 connecting corridors. Fine, its all good. build my level. its fine. cool, start adding stuff, np. build a skybox, its all good. it was fine hours ago. I made absolutely no changes at all. I run the map again a few hours later and bam... graphics on my gun and menus disapear again. All the textures on brush's are intact....

Help?

I'd say that's a graphics card problem, unrelated to your map. Or does it happen only in that map?

hmmm. All i can suggest is upgrade your graphics card's drivers.

I had a problem similair, with my old video card, where the flashlight only lit up models, and the textures would occasionally go black...
This was due to my video cards general crapness, and I'm sure your's is good enough to handle HL2, but perhaps the drivers are out of date...

also, maestr02, you are THE BEST 'noob' ever. You explain your errors so clearly, you dont get impatient, you read tutorials... <sighs with happiness>
Stick at it, and you will soon be a very highly regarded TWHL forumite and mapper.

Maestr02

This thing happens to me too. I'm looking into whether it's a graphics problem or not, it happens with models. They switch from textured mode to a flat shaded mode. To fix it, I either, pop out of HL2 using ALT-Tab or, strangely, just looking into a point_spotlight, seems to fix the problem too.

I'm running with a Geforce 7800 GT. If your also running a higher end nvidia card, it may be a problem with the driver, or the engine.

Yeah, I just found that quitting out and loading it all back up seems to fix the problem. Took me 3 attempts to get the "flat" shaded mode back

video problems

On the plus side, I guess I dont have to scrap my first level!

I have a problem in CSS where every so often after a level change My anti-aliasing will go. It will look all hazy. I just alt-tab and reenter and it fixes itself. Weird. Might be due to my refresh rate. I havnt looked into it yet.

Here are a couple of screenies of what I am working on if anyone is interested.

http://publish.shaw.ca/Maestr0

Can anyone hit me with a link to a forum post or tutorial anywhere regarding brushwork, and the optimization thereof? As my map gets bigger and bigger, and I add more and more detail to it, things are beginning to get a bit unweildy. Maybe just because of the way I kept building off of what I had or maybe because I am still learning how to use this editor, it just seems like I have my brushes all over the damn the place. I keep having to make alot of "little filler brushs" to fit into gaps, etc. Trying to keep things lined up is getting harder and harder. Any tricks of the trade to help keep all those brush's in check? :

Use a coarse grid resolution whenever you can, and a consistent one for the same scale of work (always use thirty-two for main walls and floors, say).

About the "little filler brushes", I also have to make them from time to time. There's nothing wrong about them, other than you take longer to make the map. Maps can get pretty messy and difficult to see after a while, but remember that your goal is to create a playable BSP, not a pretty RMF file.

Don't forget visgroups. We have a tutorial on 'em.

Also, if you're hollowing, hollow to a division of 8, so it stays in the grid..

I tend to do -16 or -32

Wow, you guys are fast. LIke mappers waiting to pounce!

I keep all my walls / floors / cielings etc. the same dimensions. Though I dont always work in the same grid size when adding or modifying them. This shouldnt matter too much should it? whether I make a 32 high floor in 16 or 32 grid?

I seem to have a hella lot of "filler" brushes haha. I think my problem is that this being my first level its more a compilation of alot of tutorials... I didnt really have anything in mind when I started. It wasnt until I was comfortable enough to do things myself without tabbing over to a website for instructions that I headed in any particular direction. I think next time I will have less "filler" brushes because I will have something in mind and partially drawn out before I begin. In alot of cases, my walls arent the same height, depending on whether they are beside or on top of the floor, things like this. I am sure I can go over it and delete alot and resize brushes as well.

I have no idea what the different file types are. A BSP is what I want to make to have a playable level right? What is a RMF file? Up to this point I havent researched any of this area of mapping. Im trying to keep this level basic and "out of the box" so to speak.

I dont play with hollowing yet... I would really really like to. I am accustomed to "hollowing" (subtracting in unrealed) but I really dont like how it messes up my brushes. So far the biggest thigns I have wanted to "hollow" out usually involve cylinders, and after brief tests it turns out really, really bad. I am sure hollowing has its place in mapping with Hammer or it wouldnt be provided as an option, I just havent found that comfort zone yet.

The BSP is the playable level. The RMF and MAP files are the ones you use in the editor.
Don't Hollow if you can avoid it.
When it comes to wall and floor dimensions, the best thing to do is looking at the texture sizes. You'll see most wall textures are 128 pixels high. That means they go with walls that are 128 units tall etc.

I don't hollow, it's not really nessecary.