Trying Source.. Created 14 years ago2010-02-01 01:39:32 UTC by ashephard

Hey guys,

I'm downloading the Source SDK as I type, I've taught myself basic mapping techniques in goldsource, and I've read up on some of the differences with mapping for source, any quick advice or information that I should be aware of?

In essesence, the brushwork is identical to how you do it in goldsource. Everything else can be a little hard to adjust to when you have been mapping for goldsource for so long.

I/O System is your friend.
Some entities have been renamed, Ie trigger_auto is now logic_auto.
To make metrocops push you like in the openning levels of HL2, you net to set the precrim global.

you net to set the precrim global.

Be a bit more detailed.

Mapping for Source can be overwhelming at first but the major difference I remember is the use of cubemaps and the triggering system.

In order to "complete" a map you need to have env_cubemap's placed around the level and when you have compiled you will need to type buildcubemaps in the console after loading the level.

As for triggering there's a new input/output system which essentially works like any other programming where you specify how it is triggered, a name of an entity to target, what you want it to do and for how long.

I suggest you go to the Valve SDK Wiki for useful information. Sometimes I use it just to figure out what certain commands in the flag tab do.

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/

Pretty much the same as gold source but you have alot more room to work in and the textures are alot more sweet at .25 instead of 1.00. You will notice alot of subtle differences as you map.

The biggest problem I had was the I/O system which is a godsend once you figure it out. Pretty much everything has an input and an output. I spent alot of time just researching and experimenting with these I/O. Pretty much any and everything can be used as a trigger now. I think you will find the I/O to be far superior than that of goldsource.

I don't map for goldsource any more so if you have any questions I will try and answer them for you. I am sure there are better people here with better answers.

And do we really need to have an env_cubemap to complete ALL maps? what if I am inside and I don't have any textures that I want reflected? a cube_map used the wrong way can also make you map look screwed up because it is reflecting whatever skybox you are using. There are "some" cases where you wouldn't need it at all. I have plenty of maps that run just fine without them.

And I do alot of source mapping so I welcome all the comments. You want to try some screwed up mapping--try Left 4 Dead. I still can't get the dam thing to render a simple map for me without crashing before it loads the rendered map.

you net to set the precrim global.

Whoops, need to set.
Basically get an env_global, set it's 'initial state to set' to "Gordon Precriminal" and trigger it.
Corpses are made with prop_ragdolls, not monster/npc_whaterver_dead
To get certain positions, you may need a physics_explosion set to only affect that ragdoll.

Someone once told me,

Just make a room with water, physic props, and a gravity gun and you've got the source experience.

I did that. Now I stick to goldsource because HLDM is the shit.

Good luck, wish I could say more.

Source maps look better, but it takes more effort to get there.

It's worth the trouble.

Thanks for the great and friendly responses so far, guys!

Another thing I need clarification with is the other programs (zoner's compilation tools) are they needed?

I understand that models and other resources are placed in .gcf files, but the SDK can browse these files without the need for a program like 7zip?

And also, do maps get placed in the appropriate folder to be able to play them according to the game you select to be mapping for when the SDK is open?

Bear with me for the poor explanation of questions

Alot of your old tools for goldsource are pretty much useless with source. Mostly because the features have come built in but also because they are incompatible. You no longer need Zoners. The compile tools that come with the new Hammer are great.

Hammer also has a built-in model browser that allows you to view models when you select them when you press the 'Browse' button on any model using entities. It also has the same for sounds, with a browser window that also plays the sounds for you.

And yes, pretty much everything is automatic, one feature I like about source.

Hammer, the Model viewer, and the face poser all are capable of reading GCF files (And VPKs for the L4D SDKs) and can read models, textures, and play sounds from them and the directories. Maps should get placed in their proper places, but they may not. Not to fear- Hammer will copy a BSP to the maps directory of the game you've set the SDK to. The one bad thing about source: Goldsource becomes almost alien to map for because the GUI is sized and layed out differently.

Okay this sounds very simple, much unlike starting out with goldsource, no wonder theres no tutorial for this, I just needed some quick clarification
thanks heaps guys I'll get stuck into some source mapping soon!

EDIT: Here I am saying that I'll be sweet, and just as I start, I've encountered some dificulty. There are now dark orange lines which run vertically and horizontally along my grid making 1024 x 1024 squares cover my grid. What are they and how can I disable them?

Also, when compiling there is a preference called "HDR" should that box be checked or not? and are there any Game Parameters that should be used, I remember using -dev and -console when mapping for gldsrc

One last thing, what on earth is a cubemap?
When I load my map it is full-black and when i open the console, it reads:
env_cubemap used on world geometry without rebuilding map... ignoring: and then it states a texture. It does this for another texture also.
What am I doing wrong?

Sorry for all the questions and thank you in advance!

HDR is High Dynamic Range lighting. It creates "realistic" glows around bright light sources and adjusts the players' brightness to compensate for dark areas (and darkens bright areas) realistically like a human eye reacting to light and dark.
It can only be used with a HDR enabled skybox.
Play HL2's mini-expansion "Lost Coast" with developer commentary enabled to learn more about HDR.

Cubemaps are entities placed in Hammer (recommended in every room at player-height) which define the reflections of the materials used in that room by using the "buildcubemaps" command in-game.

The grid can be customised with grid line emphasis etc in 2D options in Hammer.

As for full black - are you using prop materials (get used to that word instead of "textures" by the way) on world geometry? When browsing materials, note that prop and model materials are usually pretty clearly defined in their paths/names.

It also helps to have lighting.
Huntey: Not entirely true; I think as long as it's not a model texture (in models/whatever that it can be used- think of the maps in the rebel bases, or the acoustic ceiling in the first CP base of HL2. those are in props/.

Cheers Huntey, I'll play through Lost Coast again soon. Would you recommend HDR if the skybox could support it?
I'll remove those annoying lines, add env_cubemaps? (1 per room at player heigh or are more needed?) and I'll check the names of those prop materials
And yes, Jeff I do have lights

HDR works without a skybox too you know. Hell one of our chamber rooms looks a lot better with the glow of HDR flooding the walls.

I position cubemaps in places I think the map needs it. All it does it creates a cube reflection map which is a texture that snaps the rooms or area it's in and uses that for reflections if the materials around it use env reflections.

So in other words the scope of a sniper rifle weapon uses cubemaps nearby as its texture to display on the glass.

Hmm encountering problems already, my skybox appears to be one big leak and the floor has changed to a very shiny purple checkered pattern :S

EDIT: Problem solved, I was using a prop material from a different game. The one I'm using now isn't appropriate, I need a night skybox, how would I go about getting one into my map when theres only about 5 skyboxes for hl2ep2 and none are night themed

I have a couple around here somewhere. I don't remember where I put the zip file. You can find them at

http://www.halfwit-2.com/?page=materials&filter=texture

along with a bunch of other materials and tutorials. It should have instructions but put them in your mod materials folder in the skybox folder. Each one has to have it's own folder inside the skybox folder so don't take them out and dump them all together. It won't be able to find them either. Then go in where you normally change the sky--make sure to get the name right. Some of the names are a little confusing and you might miss that underscore at the end. Test run the map before you compile to make sure it is picking up the sky texture.

Hope this helps.....

Edit: If you have any problems with the scale of your textures--say you download the decal pack and they are too big---you can scale these textures thru the little text file that comes with every texture. Get used to this--it always you to control the size, material type and various other things. You can go to the valve community to get a list of all the material names and all the items that can be edited from this text file. If the texture does not come with one it is set to default--you have the option to add that text file to get that control over the texture.

This obviously does not apply to the sky textures--don't mess with those.

Thanks heaps for that invaluable knowledge when making a 2D skybox, should I use the texture 2D skybox or just the skybox texture? and should the entire brush be textured (all 6 sides) or just the side that will be seen.

Source mapping is very frustrating so far, as I keep getting fullbright maps and or purple floors, and its very hard to figure out why it happens

EDIT: Pretty sure the reason for the purple is having HL and Hammer open simultaneously

It should be made with tools/toolsskybox (or something like that)
The entire brush should be textured ith it. Also, if the purple is overlayed on top of another texure, it means you have to build cubemaps. Don't worry about it for now.

Thanks, Jeff

cubemaps are the shit, they render all the world reflections and stuff. plop one in each room, or LONG connecting hallway, about player eye height (64 units off ground, or around there) and thats it. There's no settings you need to mess with, just put the cubemap in and you're done.
well not quite
when you're in game, bring up the console, and type in: "build_cubemaps"
You'll see the screen go black, and textures should flash in the top left corner, and it'll pop you back into the game. Sometimes you need to restart the level, sometimes you dont, but anyway it should create all the reflections and stuff.

I like the citadel wall textures when they reflect stuff.. it's win.

Not EXACTLY sure why you are having the purple problem. If you don't already have a cubemap in your level then it shouldn't be doing this at all. It's only when you put the cubemap in and you do not render as described in the last post. buildcubemaps and all should be fine.

As for the skybox texture--it is in your tools--pull up the textures and type tools and it will pull up all your tool textures. The bigger skybox texture is what you need. I think there are two--one small and one big. I will double check that in a minute and edit if I need to.

hint from one mapper to another: start with nodraw and only coat the six inside textures of your box. If you don't need the floor texture or plan to do other things with the actual floor of your box then don't coat this. Some will say this is not recommended or will cause the box to leak but I can assure you that you are only making the performance better. I also start with nodraw anyways--keeps me from leaving a texture where it shouldn't be.

You should have fun learning displacements but they are the shit too and aren't counted when rending your map. You can make that floor a displacement and change the actual elevation and create stuff like mountains and the like. I usually put a big ass nodraw box under this to keep it all sealed up. The displacement will cause a leak other wise.

And to all your source nay sayers: give it a try! Hell, the I/O system is worth it alone to give it a try. I admit that left4dead is a little crazy to map for and I haven't tried portal so I don't know the score there.

Let's do a source room compo--single player of course!

Uh.. there already is one: http://twhl.co.za/forums.php?thread=16788

This one gonna take a year too....? LOL

Already got some good stuff all lined up....

Thanks so much, Kdunivan, you're very helpful! and you too, Tetsu0