London Riots Created 10 years ago2011-08-09 17:42:45 UTC by Striker Striker

Created 10 years ago2011-08-09 17:42:45 UTC by Striker Striker

Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 17:44:02 UTC Post #297608
Can somebody with proper knowldege explain me what's the background story for this violence?

I'm seeing some videos on youtube and I'm horrified because I remembered Harry Brown. I thought that's exaggerated fiction. Are we heading towards "Idiocracy", but worse?
Striker StrikerI forgot to check the oil pressure
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 18:26:02 UTC Post #297610
This is a job for Archie.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 19:33:47 UTC Post #297613
Some guy got shot by a police officer. people started peacefully protesting against the police. Riot Police officers were dispatched to halt the peaceful protest, it turned into a violet riot between some of the more stupid protesters and the riot police. Many looters saw this as an opportunity to get free stuff so they did. Most of the aviable police was dispatched to this one area, and with no police around in most of the larger black areas in London and an opportunity for the youth to stir up some trouble and get some free TV's, they started looting all the stores in their own local areas, and ofc between the chaos they started setting buses cars houses on fire, look at these vidoes i will link you of what london looks like, more like a warfare zone like afghanistan right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqj1N9qeWXI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLo4nw_2Q4U&feature=related

best footage i think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANkBRBzdwcE&feature=related

long news report with explanation of all of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuLFzein0MA&feature=related
Brixton, Croydon, Lewisham, These are all places I will have to return to on thursday when I'm going back to London :S.
Skals SkalsLevel Designer
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 19:42:24 UTC Post #297614
User posted image
Man in London riot stealing pampers. Masked not so much to hide his identity, but rather the shame of stealing pampers.
Skals SkalsLevel Designer
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 22:47:20 UTC Post #297621
The thing you must keep in mind is that the supposed excuse for this is the illegal shooting of Duggan by police, yet that hasn't actually had anything to do with it for 2 days.

This is Chavs & gangs finding an excuse to be violent and loot places.

This is a pretty right-wing article, but it hits the nail on the head perfectly, particularly this:
Others have consulted their A level Sociology textbooks and pinned the blame on the rioting youths' “disenfranchisement” or “deprivation”.

None of this third rate Marxist rubbish holds up if you leave the lecture hall and come face to face with the rioters. It is almost impossible to think of a way these people are disenfranchised. Each and every one of them has the franchise. When they reach 18 they will have the right to vote. They may choose not to use it, but that’s up to them.

Neither did the rioters I saw look particularly deprived. The closest thing they have to a uniform are Franklin & Marshall jumpers which retail for about £60 each. Most of them were filming their rampages on iPhones which can retail at over £400.
I'm very left-wing and I don't hide that fact, but this really is true. The rioters are absolutely not disenfranchised.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 22:47:43 UTC Post #297622
Some guy got shot
this comment/thread would go well with our "gun laws" thread
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 23:06:15 UTC Post #297624
Well, he was (to my understanding) a drug dealer, and armed. But whether or not his shooting was a crime is for a jury to decide, not for a crowd of rioters to. Some of the rows of burning houses on the news this morning reminded me of what I know of the London blitz in WWII. I now want to throttle some looters. And I don't even live in the UK. I've never been to the UK. If I had my way, I might make the trip just to throttle a looter.
Notewell NotewellGIASFELFEBREHBER
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-09 23:19:59 UTC Post #297626
They're attacking local businesses and homeowners, as if they have anything even remotely to do with it.

Also, Duggan had a loaded gun and the police took the action they deemed necessary, but like I said, this literally has nothing to do with the riots anymore.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 00:57:56 UTC Post #297627
Yeah, I gotta say, some of them buildings look like they got bombed by the Luftwaffe(Wehrmacht). Shit.

Relevent
http://imgur.com/r/pics/tYvLc
http://imgur.com/r/pics/eVZXv
brendanmint brendanmintBrendan
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 01:00:01 UTC Post #297628
I've been watching videos and I've determined that the people rioting are just young shit-heads looking for a free plasma TV. I saw one video of a guy robbing a fucking kid who was obviously in distress, and bleeding from the face. The scumbag waddled away like a fucking chimpanzee. Disgusting.

I hope the London TWHLers are staying indoors. (so in other words, business as usual hardy har har)
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 01:19:53 UTC Post #297629
Actually, the Guy who was killed and sparked the first riot, did'nt even shoot his gun.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14459516

But thats still not a reason to Riot. and its obvious the London riots are just a bunch of (mostly black) people trying to get free stuff, that they have the money to pay for. Most of them had iPhones and Very Nice clothing. Yall need to stop now. mmkay? sooner or later Russia is going to see your weak and invade, no one needs that.
brendanmint brendanmintBrendan
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 03:03:40 UTC Post #297631
I saw a fair mix of black and white looters. The guy I described seeing was white. Scum comes in all colors.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 05:03:39 UTC Post #297632
Keep in mind that these areas are the more populated less richer youth filled areas areas of London where this is mainly happening, Lewisham - Brixton - Clapham, They're all areas filled with these gangs, criminals, and angry youth, and they took it all out on their local shops, which is a bit stupid.
Yeah, I gotta say, some of them buildings look like they got bombed by the Luftwaffe(Wehrmacht). Shit.

Relevent
http://imgur.com/r/pics/tYvLc
http://imgur.com/r/pics/eVZXv
I rofled at the second picture, London hell bus of doom! :D
Skals SkalsLevel Designer
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 05:27:21 UTC Post #297633
So the looting has spread to the whole England not just London:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554
User posted image
Skals SkalsLevel Designer
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 05:32:11 UTC Post #297634
http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/jdat1/one_of_the_scariest_pictures_i_have_ever_seen/c2b6k6a

I Am confused, the police, the Government, and the Loyalists(that's my temp name) are saying some black father of 4 gangster shot at police and hes dead now, and the riots are his fault for some shit. Now, the Protesters, Not Rioters, I could care less about there reasons, they are dicks, but the protesters, say the guy was doing nothing wrong, and was executed at point blank range. Your country needs to get its story's straight, and who ever is lying needs to stfu.
brendanmint brendanmintBrendan
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 06:42:30 UTC Post #297635
It's not about protesting. Protests these days has lost their meaning. Every true protest just becomes a reason for thungs, wanksters and trash to break and steal stuff, and fight police. They don't care about the issue. Listen to this clip, for example.
Sickening.

But hey, this has happened pretty much every G4-summit ever, so I guess it isn't anything new.

"The government, right, are, like, being fascists and shit. So now I'm entitled to steal stuff from other, working, people, 'cause it's like, Robin Hood"
ChickenFist ChickenFist<Witty Title>
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 06:48:25 UTC Post #297636
Brendanmint you're not old enough to understand. Chicken Fist those two girls are idiots and those types are common here.
Skals SkalsLevel Designer
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 07:01:07 UTC Post #297637
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14461431 best footage on the web of what England looks like now, everyone watch this video.
Skals SkalsLevel Designer
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 08:05:12 UTC Post #297643
Yeah, I'd heard that the guy had fired a shot and hit a cop with it, but the bullet lodged in his radio, saving his life. Can hardly be certain that's true, but no matter what happened, the riots are way too big to be about it anymore.
Jessie JessieTrans Rights <3
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 08:38:22 UTC Post #297644
I heard about this on the news. I hope everyone here from England is alright, and I hope it ends as soon as possible. Bending the truth to fit your "cause" is worse than being a proud criminal.

We had something similar a while ago - a bunch of prisoners broke out of a prison during the revolution and started causing havoc. I guess that was on a much smaller scale. I had to stay up until 6 AM for around a month and keep watch to make sure my family was safe. Nothing happened though.

Anyways, stay safe, guys.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 10:18:28 UTC Post #297646
I've been following this closely myself. I'm astounded by how many people how decided to turn themselves into armchair analysts and deduce that these riots are the work of thugs 100%. It's far more complex then that. There are a great many reasons for the riot, and I'm not gonna pretend that I understand the various motivations of these people until the dust settles.

Another thing that has me perplexed is that when people protest and then riot against continued police brutality, the response of the public is to ramp up the polices power to greate heights? As if it will help? Well, at least the metropolitan police force didn't resort just some of the suggested extreme tactics, just a good old surge.
38_98 38_98Lord
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 11:39:58 UTC Post #297648
Another thing that has me perplexed is that when people protest and then riot against continued police brutality, the response of the public is to ramp up the polices power to greate heights?
Well 38, they can't just stand by and watch now can they?
Things would probably get even more out of hand if they didn't attempt to take down the worst mobs.
Madcow MadcowSpy zappin my udder
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 12:59:31 UTC Post #297650
Step 1: Release the hounds
Step 2: ???
Step 3: PROFIT!

[edit] that report said that the guy was a known gangster but was clean. If guns are illegal in the UK, and he had a gun, how the hell is that 'clean'?
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 13:06:04 UTC Post #297652
I hope everyone here from England is alright
People have already died and over 400 people have been arrested...
Skals SkalsLevel Designer
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 13:24:46 UTC Post #297653
Well 38, they can't just stand by and watch now can they?
Things would probably get even more out of hand if they didn't attempt to take down the worst mobs.
I'm not talking about the response by the police to flood the streets of London with 16,000 officers. I think that was a smart idea as it effectively intimidated the rioters into standing down and preventing additional chaos. I'm talking about those who have been calling for ridiculously harsh measures. Things like openly firing on crowds, calling in the army etc etc...

Someone I don't see such extreme measures as these as doing much to calm the rioters. Particularly those who rioted because of abuses by police.
38_98 38_98Lord
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 13:40:48 UTC Post #297656
If there aren't enough cops to keep order, calling in the military (to protect houses, workplaces, cars and people - not to force people off the streets) sounds like a smart move. They can't let those morons destroy London. Their country's economy is bad enough without people looting workplaces.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 14:16:33 UTC Post #297660
Oh, well in that case I agree with you 38.

And yes, calling in the military would probably be quite effective. Give them some non-lethal ammunition and let them patrol the worst areas, so that they can dispatch the police to the less worse areas preventing a spread.
Madcow MadcowSpy zappin my udder
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 14:27:52 UTC Post #297661
Things like openly firing on crowds
Just for clarity, I think I should point out that the only firearms option that was considered was to use non-lethal rubber bullets, beanbag shotguns & water cannons.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 16:03:29 UTC Post #297664
Water cannons are incredibly effective against crowds. Unfortunately for those of us in the States, they carry a huge racial stigma and we very rarely use them. It's too bad, it can be safer than other "non-lethal" types of weaponry.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 18:24:37 UTC Post #297666
I love the attitude of one London-based mapper over at 'lopers who said:
On the plus side I'm getting great reference shots for my Left 4 Dead map!
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 18:44:18 UTC Post #297673
Actually I agree with having the Army called in if police force is insufficient. They're not protesting police repression anymore, so having them retreat will do nothing to improve the situation. Rioters would then be completely free to do whatever they please, because it's clearly not about police anymore. Control measures must be taken or it'll get out of hand and next thing you know they're burning down Windsor with the Queen inside (whether she deserves it or not is a different matter :P ).
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 19:03:20 UTC Post #297674
It just mentioned on the news that the government is now allowing the police to use water cannons and plastic bullets. I've got a feeling that these riots will soon burn out.
Alabastor_Twob Alabastor_Twobformerly TJB
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 19:21:23 UTC Post #297678
For good measure they should try using boiling hot water.
Crollo CrolloTrollo
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 20:28:38 UTC Post #297679
Plastic bullets and boiling hot water are all well and good, but if you really want to hurt these people - take away their benefits.

These rioting arseholes are second generation jobless. Their parents have raised them to thinking that they can live without contributing in any way to society. There are people who are having babies not out of love or the desire to start a family, but because it'll increase their benefits allowance. Seriously. They're violent because they're brought up in this environment of worthlessness. The don't value property or possessions because they've never had to work for their own. Their entire outlook is so skewed to the extent that they don't even value human life.

And again - I'm fairly left wing, to put that rant in perspective.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 21:06:03 UTC Post #297680
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 23:22:02 UTC Post #297684
looks like the shutter speed on the camera is a little 0- Oh, thats why they are rioting. Potatis cleared it up for me.

Horrible Photoshop btw.
brendanmint brendanmintBrendan
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-10 23:42:13 UTC Post #297685
Interesting commentary;
What do you want us to do to prevent this? We give them education but they abuse the teachers, we give them job centres and encourage them to seek employment but they don't. We have offered them all they need to get their lives on track, but they are content living on the beneficts we give them for free. If we forced them to work or took away their benficts there would be an uproar. These are the same people who will burn ambulances because they represent authority. They complain about being oppressed by the police as if a high police presence in a high crime area is a breech of human rights. Yes there is a problem, but the problem is perpetuated by them, the government isn't keeping them down, they're keeping themselves down. If anything the government has made poverty too comfortable. We have given them everything they need on a plate, but they expect us to feed it to them as well.
We could help them by cracking down on crime, but apparently that just results in looting. They wallow in the filth of their own making and bitch that the government doesn't clean up after them, and when they do, they bitch about the government oppressing them. These are people who resent authority but rely on it to live. We have done all we can, if they want a better life, they have to put some effort in themselves. We can't do for someone something they aren't willing to do for themselves.
ChickenFist ChickenFist<Witty Title>
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 00:10:10 UTC Post #297687
I'm not surprised to find most of the rants aimed against the rioters place virtually no thought into the socio-economic reasons behind these events. It's easier, after all, to refer to stereotypes and look only at the worst then look at the whole and tackle it as such.

Such is the history of civilization I suppose.

On the plus side, the L4D mapping quote made me lol :D
38_98 38_98Lord
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 00:35:54 UTC Post #297688
Enlighten us, then. What are the socio-economic reasons?
ChickenFist ChickenFist<Witty Title>
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 01:34:30 UTC Post #297689
ಠ_à²
Dimbeak DimbeakRotten Bastard
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 01:37:02 UTC Post #297690
^Fail.
brendanmint brendanmintBrendan
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 02:20:00 UTC Post #297691
38_98, socio-economic class is defined by three categories:

Education, occupation & income.

They are given all of these. At the expense of tax payers.
They choose not to improve their lives because their lives at the moment are far too comfortable.

Refer to stereotypes? What stereotypes? This is literally how these people live. This is not stereotyping, this is observation.
It's all very well saying that these people are at a socio-economic disadvantage, but whose fault is that really? The government pays for them to have a roof over their heads, clean running water, gas, electricity, food, education and healthcare. They then get further benefits for various reasons which they use to buy the latest designer clothes and electronics.
They absolutely have the ability to get a job and work their way out of the council estates, but they just never take their fingers out their arses and actually do it.

You should watch the fly-on-the-wall documentary series "The Scheme". It's a little difficult to find because it was involved in several court cases, but that alone should let you know how uncensored and real it is.

Fuck, I sound like a conservative. spits
But it's true. These people need a reality check to push them out of the warm bosom of benefits.
£41.5m ($68m USD) last year was awarded to people on "insufficient income" (i.e unemployed) and that's England alone, not even counting the rest of the UK. That's also not counting the elderly, disabled or people otherwise incapable of working. 41.5 million given to people who are able to work.
It's also not counting child benefits or jobseekers allowance.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 02:53:45 UTC Post #297693
What Archie said.

Until I was about 5-6, both my parents were unemployed. Did they go out and trash the city to loot what we needed? No. Did they demand benefits? No. Did they go out assaulting little elder ladies? No. They went out every day to get a job. My father had a shitton of crappy jobs, he worked his ass off 18 hours a day to pay the bills and maintain the family. Being poor and unemployed is not an excuse for this kind of behaviour.

Still, I don't think it's related. These people are doing it for the hell of it.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 15:09:00 UTC Post #297722
It's a bit of a big issue for me to explain and, quite frankly, my procastinating ass can't be bothered (not to mention that I'm not that good at explaining to begin with) so I'll just link this - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14483149

It doesnt give all the potential reasons, and just skims those that it does, but it does provide some actual explanations instead of conjecture.
Education, occupation & income.

They are given all of these. At the expense of tax payers.
They choose not to improve their lives because their lives at the moment are far too comfortable.
User posted image
The red areas represent the most socially deprived areas. The darker the red, the worse they are. The Volcanos represent where the riots have been. Coincidence?

The survey itself comes from a government report, found here, which give a viable source for discontent not just in London, but around the country in other riot-hit cities. Their lives are anything but "comfortable".

Oh, and heres another report on the correlation between austerity measures and anarchy:clicky. Make of it what you will.

P.S that documentary series looks quite interesting Archie, thanks. :)
38_98 38_98Lord
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 15:11:07 UTC Post #297723
If the riots were about economic frustration and political disdain, then we would see council buildings as the main focus of attack. All I'm seeing is a bunch of opportunistic idiots with an uninformed view on current affairs, perpetuated by the irresponsible portion of mass media.
Archie ArchieGoodbye Moonmen
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 15:18:22 UTC Post #297724
I would say this is consequences of failure of multiculturalism.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 16:29:46 UTC Post #297726
I would say your mother is the consequence of failure of multiculturalism. Want evidence? I do.
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 16:43:34 UTC Post #297727
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 17:08:28 UTC Post #297728
Do you hate everyone that's different from you?
Posted 10 years ago2011-08-11 17:19:11 UTC Post #297732
No. Forgive me but I don't have mood for arguing with you. I'm tired of repeating myself. Time will show. I hope I'm wrong and Europe culture wont be destroyed by ignorant politicians who have chosen to allow immigration as best solution from all problems.
And now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3xsnEzA8Fw
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