CS vs. HL Mapping

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:29:55 UTC Post #129470

A very contiversal subject. Some beleive CS is better to map because of its playability, and objective based gameplay,

Dorian27: i think what CS lacks in Flashy Monsters n stuff, it makes up for in team based objectives, which sometimes are more interesting

while others say it is limited

38_98: Oh please...CS mapping is worser in my opinion. Its limited

i think this is the perfect place for people to place their opinion on which game is better to map for. i personally think CS is better. i think that custom CS maps have been very successful,

Dorian27: i know plenty of successful CS maps: fy_iceworld, de_rats, Jeepathon2k, cs_mice, awp_map, star wars, there are plenty

contrary to what others beleive

Kasperg: Custom maps for CS are very very rarely succesful. CS players are afraid of change, it's a fact. HL and HLDM allow for a little more fantastic world when it comes to mapping.

**
Now let us hear other people's opinions.

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:32:43 UTC Post #129472

i'll post my last comment from the shoutbox (i would like to have a discussion like this

)

38_98:your saying, dorian27, is that mods do not exist. For HL1 and HL2 maps are made for other reasons then HL1 and HL2, and dont you get bored from being able to map only the CS objectives?

CS is limited to hostage, bomb, assasination and others i can't remember, something like 5 or 6. Where as with HL1 and HL2 mapping its varied to what you want (as long as you pay attention to the limits)

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:34:17 UTC Post #129473

well, if what you say is true - that cs objectives get boring - then wouldnt that make HL a lil more boring seeing as it is limited to basically no objectives for multiplayer?

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:36:05 UTC Post #129474

maybe, but in SP you can make any objectives you want as long as you know how to. Where as CS your limited.

38_98Lord

SpaG

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:36:24 UTC Post #129475

Kasperg: Custom maps for CS are very very rarely succesful. CS players are afraid of change, it's a fact. HL and HLDM allow for a little more fantastic world when it comes to mapping.

I totally agree with Kasperg.

SpaG

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:36:50 UTC Post #129476

yeh, he had a very good point

38_98Lord

SpaG

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:38:56 UTC Post #129478

that is why i prefer hl mapping

But i still map for cs is my friends ask me

SpaG

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:40:09 UTC Post #129479

CS mapping is okay, its just your result/product will not be used often, if at all.

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:44:42 UTC Post #129483

but how often does a single player HL mod get used? ive never played one..

Dorian27

ChickenFist

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:45:28 UTC Post #129484

Maybe you haven't, but I've played every damn hl:sp mod in existence.

ChickenFist<Witty Title>

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:47:30 UTC Post #129485

really!? Wow...there are ton's of HL1 mods out there that are used, we have (on this site) things like Timefall and Minimicus, and HLywood. You've never played mods? Wow... (execpt for CS, thats a HL1 mod)

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:47:55 UTC Post #129486

but how would someone else get ahold of a 1 player HL mod if they didnt belong to a mapping community like this. people dont randomly search the internet for hl mods. at least custom cs maps get played on servers, and beleive it or not, plenty of servers run custom maps, and i know plenty of people who enjoy custom maps more than defaults. so there

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:49:42 UTC Post #129487

but people would search for random mods. And anyone looking out for one would just need to search at somewhere like planethalflife.com for one. Just because you see them on a server doesnt mean you can get it, if the servers full, how would you be able to connect and download the map?

Edit:And how would people who dont belong to a mapping community like this find custom maps of CS? they dont randomly search for them would they?

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:53:56 UTC Post #129491

err, u wait until the server isnt full to dl it. and most people who play in servers with custom maps that frequently play in the server will download the custom map packs, which servers usually request you do before hand anyway. http://snipersnest.jophis.com/index.php this is a very successful CS server i play in occassionally, and they have a 300 something file map pack. 80 % of the maps played on that server are custom. its a 32 person server, and it is usually close to full. that is just proof that CSers arent afraid of custom mappage

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:57:22 UTC Post #129492

i stand behind my comment, thousands of maps are made yet only map packs of 300 get through. Where as thousands upon thousands of wannabe CS mappers try and fail, so little amount...

Besides, before steam arrived when i used to play CS i rarely saw Custom maps, it was rare to see one.

And if you remember correctly, you said that people dont randomly search for HL1 and HL2 mods, but that would also mean (according to your theory of course) that people dont randomly search for CS maps

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:58:45 UTC Post #129493

i know people dont search for cs maps, but servers are constantly running them, so there is no need to search.

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:01:01 UTC Post #129494

yes but those people that run the servers, where do they find the maps?

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:04:29 UTC Post #129496

they make em, know people who make em, have people submit em to them. i think it is much easier for a cs mapper to let lots of people know about his map, than for an hl mapper to, since an hl mod isnt just going to plop into your lap. countless times i have been playing on a cs server, and the map changes, and i have to dl a new map, and i enjoy iy very much. the fact that even the n00biest CSers are able to play custom maps so easily, is what contributes to the success of custom CS maps

Dorian27

FresheD

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:05:24 UTC Post #129497

Ow stop it! Half-life wins! Final!

CS is so limited.

You need to stick to hostages, bombs and all.
A good overlay is required.

Honestly

Half-life has so more options.
You can create your own gameplay..
And you can let your inspiration flow..

Besides poeple in cs like to stick to the same usuall maps.
The so many dust and aztec servers tells it all.

And succesfull maps like iceworld, I mean...cmon! that is done in 30 minutes and it doesn't need any mapping skill.

I'd say HL wins big time.

FresheD

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:06:59 UTC Post #129498

Sorry to disappoint you fresh, but there is no winner in this forum, it is for discussion.. kthxbye

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:10:22 UTC Post #129504

and exactly how many people go on these custom servers?

HL mods (of both HL1 and HL2) are usually advertised on big mapping sites and custom maps sites. People i know can name 3 custom mods right off their head...

Also, mods offer a much more varied and extensive play, with a storyline (which all CS maps do not have) its always 'rescue the hostages' and 'disarm the bomb' people are far more entertained with mods. CS maps are all the same in objectives. One does get bored of them eventually while a mod continues to engulf the player in a storyline and consistant yet varying action.

And CS maps dont just plop on people laps either

EDIT: Wait the conversation has ended!? And i was enjoying a good argument

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:15:16 UTC Post #129506

convo has not ended!! CS offers a very extensive multiplayer team aspect (although tfc utilized teamwork far better(but thats a different thread;D)) mods may be interesting the first time through, or maybe a second time, but they are no match to playing for hours on end on a custom map server. and yes, cs maps DO plop in ur lap, servers will change the map to a custom map unexpectedly, and people will like it. and if you are forgetting, cs also offers AS - assasination maps, and ES - Escape (which sadly, arent utilized enough)

Dorian27

Elon Yariv

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:17:45 UTC Post #129507

I don't play in the multiplayer so I prefer Hl1! And it has more options and you can put more detail and cool stuff in an single player map for in a multiplayer map you always need to think how will it work on the internet!

Elon Yariv

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:18:48 UTC Post #129508

yeh, for the map is rendered all at once. So you ant put very much detail. And large maps are practically blocky galore

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:21:07 UTC Post #129510

ill give you that, hl own for single player maps, but cs owns for multiplayer, are we in agreement.. not that i want to end this thread, but we have to get the basics out of the way.

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:23:20 UTC Post #129511

yeh CS pretty much owns in multiplayer, while it maybe limited to 5 or 6 objectives. HLDM only has 1, all out war...which does get kinda boring...

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:24:30 UTC Post #129512

OK, we agree on one thing

so ehh, now what...

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:25:56 UTC Post #129514

erm...party anyone?

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:27:02 UTC Post #129515

way ahead of ya... takes pants off

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:28:40 UTC Post #129516

takes pants off

NOOOO!!! IM TOO YOUNG!!!!!!

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:29:41 UTC Post #129517

well, thats enough for one day zips pants but on a serious note, that was a fun argument

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:30:43 UTC Post #129519

yeh...if there's another topic like that im difinately joining in

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:31:27 UTC Post #129520

well, im out of work in 15 minutes, cant go off on a tangent now, sorry, bye then.

Dorian27

Kasperg

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:31:39 UTC Post #129521

...fy_iceworld, de_rats, Jeepathon2k, cs_mice, awp_map, star wars...

Maps of doubtful quality If I may say so. Rats and mice may be nice looking, but they are completely off-theme when it comes to a game of terrorist vs. special CS forces. The model skins of CS are like a pearl in a plate of peas when it comes to those maps.
Fy_iceworld is succesful because it has short rounds, fast gameplay and the ability to change weapons quickly. In other words, it's team deathmatch.
The possibilities of multiplayer objective based maps is surprisingly greater in HL thanks to the teamplay game mode. For example, in my maps tp_ritual and tp_seth, you must go to the enemy base and fall down a hoop to score points. A thousand things like that are possible in HL.

And as other people have mentioned, mapping for CS requires a good layout if you want the game to be balanced. In HLDM, you can adjust these type of things just by adding ammo here, a weapon there, a spawn point over there etc.

Half-life has so more options.
You can create your own gameplay..
And you can let your inspiration flow..

Precisely

Kasperg

Soup Miner

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:33:52 UTC Post #129522

Id say CS mapping and HLDM mapping are equally as fun. But since I play more CS, I tend to map more for CS.
HL single player....mmm..... not so much my thing, I like it when you can get what people think right then and there whilst they frag on.

Soup Miner

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:34:31 UTC Post #129523

just to let you know, cs has that ability as well, just no one utilizes it, cuz they thing its GAY GAY GAY!!!! just kidding. anyways, i dont feel like arguing anymore today, i gotta go soon, but thanks for getting me riled up!

Dorian27

Soup Miner

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:35:24 UTC Post #129524

This is really all a matter of opinion. I mean seriously, the cs fans are obviously going to like cs mapping more.

Soup Miner

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:36:32 UTC Post #129525

definately, so i imagine you all can guess my gaming and mapping preference...

Dorian27

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:38:06 UTC Post #129526

Yeh, HLDM and HL2DM are no way better when it comes to multiplayer, sure HL1 and HL2 make more versitile maps, but like a motto i got from the simpsons 'come for the funeral, stay for the pie' the same thing goes. The map will interest them. But in the end the gameplay is what matters and CS offers much better gameplay then DM. And in the end thats what counts.

38_98Lord

Dorian27

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 16:39:37 UTC Post #129527

so i won.. YAAAAAAAAAAY!!!

Dorian27

Kasperg

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 17:34:32 UTC Post #129533

But in the end the gameplay is what matters and CS offers much better gameplay then DM

Which means: mapping for CS is much harder and time-consuming. CS doesnt offer better gameplay; the well designed maps of CS do. There's a difference.
And there are lots of other factors. In counter-strike you depend on the rest of your team. If your team members are bad players, we all know the game isnt much fun. You can end up waiting more time than actually playing.
SP and deathmatch give you freedom. In deathmatch you can use the layout in so many more ways than would be possible with a CS map, in which you end up following the same paths over and over again.

So in the end, CS is harder to map because of its playability, and objective based gameplay. There is no point saying that one game has better gameplay than another, since it depends on the map. Gameplay in crossfire beats most CS maps, for example.

Kasperg

Soup Miner

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 17:48:19 UTC Post #129534

And then theres the city maps...

Soup Miner

38_98

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 18:02:51 UTC Post #129536

i never said mapping for CS is better or easier then HL1, HL2 or HLDM's. But in my opinion if you get good players CS cna be very fun, and it isnt always one path

38_98Lord

M_gargantua

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 18:13:40 UTC Post #129540

bah, i hate mapping for CS, its not the accuall mapping I hate though. I really hate how the few CS maps ive made might have been good, but when i went to some of the more CS oriented sites to submit them, i couldn't. plus I saw that they had hordes and hordes of crappy ass CS maps in there vaults, and knew mine would just end up in the fray.

[quote in my maps tp_ritual and tp_seth, you must go to the enemy base and fall down a hoop to score points[/quote]

just to let you know, cs has that ability as well, just no one utilizes it

accually, no, you can't do that is CS.

Yeh, HLDM and HL2DM are no way better when it comes to multiplayer, sure HL1 and HL2 make more versitile maps

maybe not, but thats why you have Mods like:
sevn co-op
Team Fortress Classic
Natual Selection
(all of which I find as Better then CS in terms of longtime gameplay)
and a host of others

Plus you have great single player mods, and they continue to be made, even for Half-life 1.

Quote:
Half-life has so more options.
You can create your own gameplay..
And you can let your inspiration flow..

Precisely

Precisely, 'Precisely'

M_gargantua

Mariowned

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 18:41:24 UTC Post #129544

if i started mapping for halflife there would be no counter strike surf maps today... and i dont like aliens

Mariowned

Kasperg

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 19:41:21 UTC Post #129549

You dont like aliens... Which of my 29 maps for HL has aliens for example?

Map for HLDM, it's fun!

Kasperg

Soup Miner

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-24 20:11:04 UTC Post #129550

Natural selection maping confuses me, is there an entity than specifies the game type or what?(ns vs co)

Soup Miner

FresheD

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-25 05:57:12 UTC Post #129599

Kasperg, HLDM is old, HL2DM is also fun!

FresheD

Daubster

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-25 06:10:38 UTC Post #129601

I map for both CS and HL.. I think that they're pretty simillar,if you don't count minor entity changes. They're built on the same engine after all... I think that it takes the same amount of skill to make a good CS or HL map. Soo... I'll go for both..

DaubsterVault Dweller

Mercenary

Posted 18 years ago2005-08-25 07:53:27 UTC Post #129625

HL: Funnier because you can make sp maps. Cs: Only fun to make maps for friends and clans

Mercenary

CS vs. HL Mapping Created 18 years ago2005-08-24 15:29:55 UTC by Dorian27