Weapons not spawning properly Created 18 years ago2006-01-21 21:42:12 UTC by darkphoenix_68

My newest HLDM map has the problem that several weapons (it primarily seems to be Snarks and Tripmines) are not respawning. They actually appear to be spawning lower than they should, as though they are partially embedded in the floor -- and I suspect that when they respawn they are falling through to the next surface below them (which, in most cases, takes them right out of the map.)

The surfaces in question are mostly flat, not sloped.

The map itself is rather large:

Object names  Objects/Maxobjs  Memory / Maxmem  Fullness
------------  ---------------  ---------------  --------
models            393/400        25152/25600    (98.3)VERY FULL!
planes          11185/32767     223700/655340   (34.1)
vertexes        25644/65535     307728/786420   (39.1)
nodes           13711/32767     329064/786408   (41.8)
texinfos         4413/32767     176520/1310680  (13.5)
faces           18959/131071    379180/2621420  (14.5)
clipnodes       31113/32767     248904/262136   (95.0)VERY FULL!
leaves           8112/8192      227136/229376   (99.0)VERY FULL!
marksurfaces    24947/65535      49894/131070   (38.1)
surfedges       84126/512000    336504/2048000  (16.4)
edges           46110/256000    184440/1024000  (18.0)
texdata          [variable]    3787328/4194304  (90.3)VERY FULL!
lightdata        [variable]    4177326/4194304  (99.6)VERY FULL!
visdata          [variable]     405638/2097152  (19.3)
entdata          [variable]     129799/524288   (24.8)
=== Total BSP file data space used: 10988313 bytes ===

Possibly that is causing this?

Any ideas what the problem might be?

erm.. the weapon entity is... stuck in the floor? :

I agree with hunter, raise the weapons off the floor a bit and see what happens. unless they are already raised, I can't help you there.

raise the weapons off the floor a bit

Er, yeah. I have tried that, of course. Should have mentioned it in my original post, though. I've got them placed, in Hammer, about 4-8 units above the floor. (But in other maps - and indeed, in this map with other weapons which aren't misbehaving - I've simply placed them by clicking on the floor in the 3D window.)

And every weapon_tripmine you put down does this?

Apparently.

I just spent a few minutes testing this, and it does appear to be affecting every weapon_tripmine, and every weapon_snark.

At an earlier point in the development of the level, I noticed a few which were not reappearing, and I'm sure, at the time, others were. But now it seems to be all of them. Also, they are not just "falling through" as I first thought, because it's also affecting some on a ledge which has another floor beneath it to catch them, and they're not reappearing there...

I guess I should add that, while the map runs okay in Multiplayer mode, if I attempt to run it in Singleplayer (ie, by using the "+deathmatch 1 +map mapname" from the command line, which appears to simulate DM rules in the singleplayer engine) it fails with an Alloc ("Too many edicts") error...

So perhaps it really just does have too many entities, and DM is running it but choosing not to respawn some of them?

Edit: It is also affecting weapon_satchels, it seems...

Edit 2: Looking closer, I don't think the tripmines are starting out too low; must have been a trick of the light which led me to think they were... Sorry.

It could be down to the clipnode memory space almost being saturated ? Zoner's might be clipping the map less accurately in order to be able to compile. That's really a pretty straining map... 99.6% light memory saturation? Some pruning might be called for. It could also be down to the model memory saturation: look, 393/400 before stuff starts respawning with corpses all over the place, etc. I'm assuming that dynamicly-placed models in HL share this limit; could be wrong.

Either way, try cropping out something or just compiling a little bit of the map and see if it then works.

Either way, try cropping out something or just compiling a little bit of the map and see if it then works.

Yeah, thanks, I think that's the approach I'll have to take -- and I suspect that is probably the answer (although it seemed a little strange that a tripmine would not respawn, but a shotgun would. OTOH, it is all weapon-slot #5 stuff, isn't it? Perhaps the engine is simply prioritising...)

I'll do some testing (which might take a few days now) and let you know how it goes -- although if I do have to crop the map, I really don't know where to start. It <i>is</i> too big, but given the design premise I started from, it couldn't really be much smaller. sigh I suspect I'll be writing this level off as a learning experience...

why don't you post a screenshot of hammers 3d view in wireframe mode so we can see how complicated this level really is.

Screenshots? Sure.

http://www.petesplace.id.au/image/sshot.gif
http://www.petesplace.id.au/image/sshot2.gif

The first one shows all four windows, but doesn't show the two teleport-effect tubes which are at the bottom corners of the map, running "North-South". The second is the main 3D window from a slightly different angle. I couldn't pull back any more without Hammer starting to clip the stuff at the far side of the map...

Soon I'll post a couple more in-game screenshots to my userpage...

those look really nasty. are you sure you need all that?

are you sure you need all that?

Absolutely!

Actually, while I still want to retain the full thing, I'm rather leaning towards throwing away all the below-ground stuff -- which will give me the leeway to fine-tune the remaining details. I've already got it set so players can't get into the below-ground sections until there are enough people in the level, so throwing that all away won't be too hard...

I think I'll probably release two versions (at least then I'd be consistent.)

Edit: The big problem with the level as it stands is that the lower section really is too big, and slows down gameplay too much...

Hmm. Perhaps I should resurrect it as an SP map or two...?

Edit 2: I know now how to solve this issue -- assuming, of course, that it is related to the size of my level. Full (well, "more") details in my newest Journal entry.

Thanks all, for your input.

Cheers,
Pete.