Dunce Americans Created 18 years ago2006-04-08 11:58:23 UTC by satchmo

You are for all intent and purpose the leader of this whole grand and beloved place we call TWHL. Would you not agree a little impartiality might be appropriate?

That's why I value the discussion here so much, and that's why I love Seventh.

I know no one else can read Chinese, but at the Chinese Half-Life/Counter Strike community, I noticed a big difference. The moderators crack down on the topics of the thread with an iron fist. Conformity is expected, and no one is allowed to express his opinion without some censorship by the moderators.

And the most amazing thing is that this site is in Taiwan, the supposedly "free" part of China. I can't imagine what online communities in mainland China must be like. Communities probably don't even exist in that Communist country, where human rights is a joke.

That's a big cultural contrast to TWHL. America and most of the Western world still enjoy a great deal of freedom, but the degree of freedom we used to take for granted is rapidly dwindling, especially in the United States. In the name of fighting terrorism, we're relinquishing our rights day by day. Some of us don't even realize that this is happening.

That's the scary part.

You can't complain. An abomination. If it becomes law, I'm leaving the country. Quite seriously.

I'm rather considering Australia. It's a long way away, but it's a modern English-speaking country. That or Russia, but that's in a bit of a poor state, marvellous though the language is.

Ok, lets not start the arguing again Let's just leave it as is. Everybody just got pissed because we were flaming each others country. Thats apparently over with now. Discussion ended, everybody has said what they wanted to say. Let's just close this topic

No need to close the topic.

If the topic runs out of fuel and poeple run out of things to say, the thread will die quietly on its own.

Let's not murder it. We'll allow it to die from natural causes.

whats wrong with ID cards, are you a terrorist?

quite a few european counties have them already, just look at malta, no terrorism there

Yeah, there's absolutely no reason to close this. I somehow remember a heated discussion going on in a politics and religions topic a long time ago, the moderators close only for a lot worse .

Its a interesting topic to.

If I were in power I would execute anyone who didn't know how to use the words 'to, two, too and lose'

You can't complain. An abomination. If it becomes law, I'm leaving the country. Quite seriously.
I'm rather considering Australia. It's a long way away, but it's a modern English-speaking country.

Hear, hear! I feel completly the same as Seventh.

whats wrong with ID cards, are you a terrorist?

The public have to pay for them, I belive the last estimate was somthing around ?100 per card. And they can think again if they think I am going to pay to have a leech around my neck, I (and, of course, a very large portion of the general population) have dont nothing wrong. Its simply an infringement on my rights. Not the rights the law gives me or the rights that I have for living in the western world, MY rights, as a human being.

Whats next? Checkpoints? Papers to move from region to region like the USSR used to be? I think a lot of the problems today is that the people may disagree with a subject, but arnt willing to stand up in front of people and tell them how they feel. A good protest, riot or even revolution never hurt any country. They are the reality check that keep the powers that be from becoming untouchable.

On a lighter note, this thread is NOT full of flames, it has got a few flickers in it yes when people call each other idiots and such, but its not flaming. BELIVE ME when I say HIT is a lot LOT worse than this (or at least used to be). I remember loggin in one time to find and entire 5 page thread filled with posts like "You fucking goon, I am going to hunt you down and rape your family" etc. It gets worse, two of the people involed in said flaming were moderators, I kid you not. This is very peaceful compared to a lot of other places around the net, and there is not one single troll in TWHL. Somthing I thank the site for every time I log in, HIT on the other hand is infested with idiots, the main trouble is that most of the idiots are running the show. All the moderators here are fair and just, they dont play favorites and they dont abuse their powers. Thats what makes TWHL such a great community to be a part of.

So before you start condeming this thread as a flame war and asking for it to be closed, think about it. This could be a lot worse, take it from me. This infact is a very stable nice conversation.

whats wrong with ID cards, are you a terrorist?

Just so you know, jobabob is a Brit., and was being sarcastic ;).

Hooray for TWHL! Group hug.

no I wasnt, you are either for ID cards or you are a terrorist, in the same way you are either for draconian regulation for media or you are a pirate

It's really hard to tell sometimes.

/me gives jobabob an insanely large hug because he makes me smile so.

As for the rest of you, get back to the petty bickering. It is incredibly fun to see Xyos try to come up with more excuses to counter attacks on his precious country.

everything is biploar why dont you understand me, you are either a man or a woman, you either like marmite or you hate it, you either support our troops or you are a LIBERAL JEW HIPPIE FAG CRACK-HEAD STONER TERRORIST

One cannot be either tall or short.

There is a lot of grey area in height.

Hunter you talk like I have been defending my country like an over-zealous person. Ive contradicted myself and admitted its weaknesses many times. You know America's facts Hunter. You know the lies. Believe what you want. Ive learned from all this that forum posting really cant sway someones beliefs. All it does is bring out the worst in people.

I suggest we moves our countries back together and bring back Pangaea. Then we would all be in the same land mass.

im sure if they showed the people actually answering the questions correctly there wouldnt be much entertainment... so lets just air the idiots!l

I suggest we moves our countries back together and d3n w3 team upz and bombz russia LOL!!! kekekekekeke

(quote may have been edited for kekeke purposes)

Come on, don't we have anything more to argue about?
... Religion?
I guess that only works with BL (and saco?) though, we need something more controversial.

religion and politics are always argued about. Lets do something new, something fresh!

Race anyone? Africa's people are idiots? They have been around since the beginning of time BEFORE THE GREEKS, were never conqured to hinder technological development, yet their social structure and society remain the same as it was 2000 years ago......

This is not racism, but just fact and logic. Isnt it true african americans have an extra muscle, and less brain power?

I DARE you to try to argue against that!

The cultural development in Africa was impeded by the heavy colonisation during the 14th and 15th century, when millions were enslaved or killed. European countries didn't allow much cultural progress for the occupied people.

I'd say the development in the rest of the world, besides europe, wasn't going slower or worse in that sense - it was just going in a different direction, that favoured close-together tribes instead of fullblown civilizations - then the europeans came and fuckered it all up. Today much of Africa is still poor because the former occupying forces (France, Great Britain, mainly) sucked the land dry of it's resources and economical force.

Essentially, it's our fault.

Edit:

Isnt it true african americans have an extra muscle, and less brain power?

Highly individual. Maybe there're some minor racial traits and differences, but it's quite marginal.

Yes that is correct ZombieLoffe, but before Europes invasion, Greece, Rome, Britain, France, Japan, etc were signifigantly more developed. WHat I am getting at is perhaps they were enslaved because we thought they were inferior due to their so called "mental limitations"? Was slavery just a false judgement of early europeans ruling they were meant to serve due to their so called "inferiority"?

What are you on about?
The Egyptian civilization was for hundreds of years the mightiest in the world - I'm not too well read up about the southern part of Africa but there probably were major civilzations there too.

Great civilizations have risen and fallen, throwing countries that once were hugely advanced back into barbarism (dark ages, anyone? The fall of rome?)
The slave-trading europeans (and the original invaders of America) quite clearly saw blacks and asians as inferior, and even non-human and assumed they were meant to work for them. They blatantly ignored the fact that african tribes already had sophisticated languages, religions and cultures themselves, and banned the speaking of their own language.

I mean, racism is still widespread in all civlizations - just how civilized are we?

Anyway, we're all humans. Skin colour or minor physical differences don't change the mind, they merely reflect what environment the person grew up in.

I only posted this because I cant figure out how some race could find another inferior without logical reasoning. Guess there is no logic in racism is there?

BTW, I dont think the Egyptians were black were they (they were in Africa, but were they all black?)

The public have to pay for them, I belive the last estimate was somthing around ?100 per card. And they can think again if they think I am going to pay to have a leech around my neck, I (and, of course, a very large portion of the general population) have dont nothing wrong. Its simply an infringement on my rights. Not the rights the law gives me or the rights that I have for living in the western world, MY rights, as a human being.

and so it the point of terrorism. it's only power is to make the masses cower in stupid fear and pretty much make their goverments do stuff like this to make them feel safe, then complain and get all pissy about it when they think up a solution.

I agree, solutions like that arn't good solutions. solutions like invadeing afganistan arn't good.

ignoring terrorism is a better solution.

I read somewhere that black people have higher jumps because the back of their legs are more bent, like a dog's or a horse.

Wow! Comparing a black person to a dog? That's controversial.

But racism is an old controversey. In fact, it's so old that it's not really all that controversial anymore.

What's newer and more cantankerous is gay rights. I believe it's the new frontier in human rights. People who are intolerant of homosexuals are no better than racist pigs. They are not above Nazi murderers.

People who do not accept the homosexuals are just being obtuse. They are typically narrow-minded, self-righteous religious fanatics. They deserve a special area in hell.

Umm, what? Being narrow-minded is now akin to being a murderer? I don't understand the intolerance for intolerance, either.

Intolerance to milk protein is one thing, but intolerance for other people's sexual preference is another. Condemnation of a group of people based on their sexual preference is an attack on basic human decency.

By the way, I thought the word "hubris" is the best single-word to describe the typical American disposition.

Being an atheist, you can relate to what I'm about to say. I'm going to withhold all the religious stuff so there can be no doubt about it.
Homosexuality is fast approaching the "Nazi" killing level. Gay sex is the leading cause of HIV infections in the US.
Just male/male gay sex by itself infected 19,611 people with HIV in the year 2004. Then there are the 5,149 heterosexual-contact infections that follow. and then the 47 perinatal infections after that.* That is in just ONE YEAR. HIV infection rates are higher now.
And as an atheist, you must beleive in evolution and natural selection. Yet you beleive that homosexuality is a perfectly normal thing, when in fact, homosexuality is contrary to every law or natural selection/evolution. How can two animals of the same sex of ANY species reproduce to make the race better? Everyone knows they can't. Logically, if homosexuality were a genetic thing, these genes would have died out long ago, according to evolution and natural selection.
So we can infer that homosexuality is either passed on by some social tradition or is a mental disease. So if it's a disease, then shouldn't we as a PROGRESSIVE society be finding a cure. And if it's just passed on by social tradition, then the only thing keeping it alive is "tolerance."
*Statistics from CDC.gov

and so it the point of terrorism. it's only power is to make the masses cower in stupid fear and pretty much make their goverments do stuff like this to make them feel safe, then complain and get all pissy about it when they think up a solution.

I agree, solutions like that arn't good solutions. solutions like invadeing afganistan arn't good.

ignoring terrorism is a better solution.

You excellent man, you.

Hey, wait a minute, you're not LeFTy. You're his clean-shaven brother. Anyway, your "homosexuality not being natural by statistics" thing doesn't take account of the fact that as long as the majority (or at least, a certain critical proportion) of the population is still reproducing, then if, say, 1/20th (no idea what the average is) of children born are homosexual, well, then... yeah.

An interesting point of view, but not one I agree with. I think a common problem is people failing to accept that their minds aren't kings of their bodies. If you were a castrati (ow!), then you wouldn't 'think' about women particularly. Presumably the gay castrati didn't think about other men either.

Maybe the gene or genes which lead to homosexuality are particularly likely to mutate.

Satchy, you experienced at all in the field of genetics?

Heh, heh, just imagine if the level of homosexuality rose above that critical proportion and the human race just peacefully faded away. That'd make a change from all the nuclear holocaust and horrific disease stories.

why cant gay men reproduce? whats wrong with surrogate mothers and adoption? its such a silly argument

there are gay animals, I dont believe they are members of the hollywood elite and referring to being gay as a 'disease' I find incredibly offensive, try living in the 21st century you regressive fool

Oh no, nickelplate found his way to TWHL .
Anyway, sure, homosexuality doesn't conform with nature in the sense that homosexuals can't reproduce - but since when does anything humans do conform with nature? We're constantly sucking earth dry of it's resources, polluting it's seas and it's air.
Claiming homosexuality is bad because it's "unnatural" is a fairly weak argument - look at infertile couples, or people who actually have sex for fun - do you call them unnatural, and claim it's a mental disorder?

Last time I checked, around 10% of every child born is homosexual. I might be off, school taught me this (Ugh) .

If you're so concerned with HIV, nickelplate, wear a condom. Let others do whatever (and eachother) they want.

And yeah, I'm with Satchmo. Everyone who judges a person based from his or hers sexual preference should be considered as bad as a racist.

Grrr... just lost a huge post, must remember to copy and paste the lot before hitting the "post" button.

and so it the point of terrorism. it's only power is to make the masses cower in stupid fear and pretty much make their goverments do stuff like this to make them feel safe, then complain and get all pissy about it when they think up a solution.

I agree, solutions like that arn't good solutions. solutions like invadeing afganistan arn't good.

ignoring terrorism is a better solution.

How more wrong could you be?

Ignoring terrorists is NOT the answer! Terrorists dont attack just to scare people, its so that their cause can be heard. Terrorists attack the USA (and indeed now the UK) because the US has been fucking their country for years. Take Iraq for example, a much stronger country invades, knocks off their countries leader and totally fucks their political system up, institues their own way of thinking / doing things (democrcy), steals their resources and bombs and kills their people on a daily basis.

Whats worse is that the general population of the offending coutries just sit back and let it happen. That is why terrorists attack, not to scare people, to let their cries for help be heard by the rest of the world. They are fighting back against the oppressors that are quite literally enslaving them. I know for a fact that if I were born in Iraq I would be one of the first people to pick up a rifle against the troops, the same can be said for any of us if the tables were turned and it was our country that was invaded. People dont strap C4 around them and blow themselfs up because some book says so, they do it because it is their duty. They are like soldiers, but of course they have no chance of fighting against us in an actual millitary form with armies and such, so they fight the only other way they can, with gorilla warfare tactics and what we would brand as "terrorism".

Ignoring them is just going to make the situation worse, we should listen to what they are fighting for, and then try and ammend the problems. In this case, get the fuck out of Iraq and let them come around to democracy if that is the way the country is going. If not then let them evolve on their own, invading to empose democracy on them, even if its what they will end up as eventually, is only going to make things worse and lessen the rate of progression. Forced evolution only leads to chaos.

Intolerance to milk protein is one thing, but intolerance for other people's sexual preference is another. Condemnation of a group of people based on their sexual preference is an attack on basic human decency.

Some people cant help it, some people are just wired in such a way that they hate gay people. I think its just the natural order of things, gays are usually homosexual because of shit that happened in their childhood, like their dad beating them or somthing. Its a warped cry for attention. In my view, people who hate gays are just obeying their natural insticts, a gay person is 'defective' for want of a better word. If we were all living in caves I belive gay people would be killed outright because they are a threat to the well being of the pack or the whole.

In horses, if a male or female become infertile or sterile, they would wonder off and just keep going until they died. Not because they were depressed or some shit, its for the greater good of the pack. If you have a gay person in the pack, they are effectivly sterile, because they wont reproduce, and thus are an unessisary drain on resources (food, water, heat, protection etc). People who hates gays are just conforming to the natural order of things. Gays go against the natural order and thus they are weeded out, like survival of the fittest. If you are weak you die, so that the stronger specimins can go on to reproduce and make the blood line and the species stronger.

I know its an exterme / nazi like view, call me nazi or whatever you want I am not a nazi or a person who hates gays, its just the natural order of things.

Oh I didn't read that statement I made, one of my black friends told me. He was about to prove it....but I stopped him in time lol.

That's the first time I've ever heard of an argument like that. Gay haters are born with the propensity to hate gays. You can argue the same way about racist or sexist people, or even terrorists. They're just born that way. So when they murder minorities and blow up buildings, you can't really hold them responsible. They can't help it. They gotta do it. It's their natural-born instinct.

How ridiculous does that sound?

As for the genetic argument, there are plenty of genetic diseases that are prevalent despite the definite selective advantage against these condition. Why do we still have people with cystic fibrosis, when the gene is in one out of thirty Caucasian? Why do we still have diabetes, when the gene is perhaps one in five? In fact, why do we have ANY genetic disease at all, if natural selection is at work?

Obviously, there must be some advantageous trait to be homosexuals. Perhaps they are more creative. Perhaps they have a better fashion sense. Perhaps if it weren't for the gay Neanderthals, we would still be wearing animal skin skirts and picking our noses with a tree branch (argh!).

I don't know exactly. But arguing that gay people become gay because of their childhood atrocity does not hold up to close examination. I personally know quite a few highly educated and well-adjusted gay people. If anything, my childhood was a lot more tumultuous than theirs. Yet I turned out to be a horn dog with girls.

People who are insecure or brain-washed by religion hate gays, because they're insecure about their own masculinity. Bullies pick on the weak because they're afraid of being called weak themselves.

P.S. Welcome to TWHL, nickelplate. I guess if you can't chat with me at the SnarkPit, you come here instead.

Perhaps they have a better fashion sense.

Heh, I certainly hope that doesn't assist survival :D.

What's a "horn dog"? I think I've heard the term before.

Well concluded, anyway.

When someone is a horn dog, they are horny. If you don't know what that means it's like being "devil-ly" and is associated with acting sexy and trying to hump things...mostly has to do with sex.

W00t for gay rights!!

Da Dutch were the first to allow them to mary together.

Funny fact, our excellent*cough* prime minister (jan-Peter Balkenende) Went to indonesia for a week or so. When asked by indonesian students about the norms and values here and that he couldnt possible talk about it because we allowd gays, to be gays. He replyed that he voted against this law when i was passed through the second chamber.

This got him into trouble, because he was representing the whole population there, and not his individual points. Unfortunatly he came out un-hurt.

We also got ID cards now, if i dont carry it with me i need to pay 25 euro's. I mean WTF, i know who i am, im standing right in front of you telling you to fuck of, look its me!!

And what if you 'accidently' leave one at home?

Taiwan has a national ID card system since the founding of the nation. You can't get anything done without it. You can't hold a job, can't attend school, can't even start a bank account without the ID.

But just wait for a few years. Us enlightened will be the vanguard of the gay rights movement. We would be viewed as the abolishionists of our time.

As for the extreme right-wing gay-haters...well, we'll let history itself judge them.

If you died it'd be nice to know who you are. Hmm..ID cards yes! Under license age and get stopped by police? Who are you? ID cards! yay!

VOX, that wasn't entirely coherent...

Many western countries that have ID cards do not have a shared register. Mostly ID cards have been limited in use, with strong legal privacy protections.

In Germany centralisation is forbidden for historical reasons, and when cards are replaced, the records are not linked.

Belgium has made use of modern encryption methods and local storage to protect privacy and prevent data-sharing, an approach opposite to the Home Office's.

The UK scheme is closest to those of some Middle Eastern countries and of the People's Republic of China?though the latter has largely given up on biometrics.

http://www.no2id.net/IDSchemes/whyNot.php

If you died it'd be nice to know who you are. Hmm..ID cards yes! Under license age and get stopped by police? Who are you? ID cards! yay!

Driver's license, school card, etc.

Some parents are just not educable.

I told the mother that her daughter does not need antibiotics, because there is no evidence of bacterial infection. But she wouldn't listen.

She's convinced that her child needs antibiotics every time she gets sick, no matter what the cause.

After being a pediatrician for so many years, I just give her the antibiotics, even though it's clearly the wrong thing to do.

From our experience, we know that there are people in the world who are just too stupid and stubborn to be educated. For them, we should give up hope at educating them and let them die from their own stupidity.

Slap her with a shoe and say her kid will die from ODing antibiotica. That ought to shut her up.
Overprotective parents for the big lose.

Overprotective is fine, but not stubborn to the point of going against doctor's advice.

I have to give her the antibiotics because I know if I don't, she'll complain about me with my boss. And I'll get reprimanded for doing the right thing.

So fuck her. I hope her child suffers serious side effect from the medication that she doesn't need. Blame the mother, not the doctor with the good intention.

Surrogate mothers and adoption are completely against the basics of natural selection. You'll notice that when an animal happens upon a nest of another of it's species it will automatically kill all of the young in the nest. Adopting is very rare in nature and will only happen in very specific circumstances and with humans is a very complicated and psychologically effecting situation. Still adoptions and surrigacy are not "two gay men reproducing," it is more like "two unnaturals recieving the results of natural relations between two naturals." As for being a "regressive fool," I think that you may need to reconsider. I've not mentioned anything religious or conservative in nature at all. Rather, I have only mentioned progressive ideals and REAL statistics. I haven't seen you refute anything I've said, you've only shown your disaproval of my post by calling me a name. Maybe you hope that if you call me a good enough name or a sub-par name with enough conviction that others will forget that you didn't do shit to disprove what I said.

I've been a member of TWHL since mar 15th of last year, lol.

People who have sex for fun are lots more natural than two of the same sex having the same relations. Heterosexual relations have the propensity to create new life. Most times, people who "hook up" do so solely because of superior physical characteristics, which, according to natural selection is the makings of a more superior offspring. Whereas homosexual relations have no possibility of making new life at all, whether superior or inferior. There's not even a one in a quadrillion chance! There is infinitely more chance of contracting HIV than getting anything done for the human race.

Why can't "gay-haters" be born with such a propensity? You are adamantly vouching for gays' propensities, and yet, you will not allow the same possibilities for the side that is against yours. And what can things like increased fashion sense do to aid in the survival and improvement of a species? Even if it does make them more attractive to the opposite sex, what good would it do if they refuse to mate with them? As a medical doctor, you should know how genetics work lots of genes are dominant, such as the myopic gene that makes people near-sighted. Without bad vision, we would've never discovered glasses. Only there was nobody that claimed that bad vision was a perfectly normal thing as they do with homosexuality. How can you think logically and claim that homosexuality is genetic: if genes are passed on by the mating of a male and a female, or by asexual reproduction, and the definition of "homosexuality" is that two of the SAMe sex are having sex, and humans are not asexual, how can a homosexual gene POSSIBLY be passed on? You may say it's a mutation, but then you would have to treat it as any other mutation like kleinfelters or turner's disease and try to find a "cure."

you said "Bullies pick on the weak because they're afraid of being called weak themselves." That would imply that all gays are weak, and THAT is discrimination.

you said "From our experience, we know that there are people in the world who are just too stupid and stubborn to be educated. For them, we should give up hope at educating them and let them die from their own stupidity." So we should leave alone those people who think they can procreate by having sex with others of the same sex?

"overprotective parents for the big lose" indeed. That is why people are so weak these days.

So what should we do with gays then? Kill them all?

Surely not. If it turns out to be a disorder, cure them. If it's genetic, it'll phase itself out. If it's social (it IS in style to be gay these days..), then we need to rethink our position on what's acceptable for our future generations. But, it's NOT natural or normal. So why do we have to accept or tolerate it if we don't want to. Not accepting/tolerating something is not the same as hating it, and intolerance is not tantamount to nazi murderers.

In the end, it's up to science and the gay ppl what will happen. Gays certainly DO have rights, but only the same rights that everyone else has. No such thing as "Gay rights." because that implies that they have rights that "straight" people don't. They can be equal under the law, but no special treatment, yeah?

So fuck her. I hope her child suffers serious side effect from the medication that she doesn't need. Blame the mother, not the doctor with the good intention.

That's a bit harsh, taking it out on the kid :|. Seems unusual for you.