Episode Two - Insert Coin to Continue Created 18 years ago2006-08-27 18:05:46 UTC by Jobabob

"You'll be able to buy Half-Life 2 plus Episodes 1 and 2 for the price of a full retail game, or you can buy the package with Episode 2 that includes Team Fortress 2 and Portal for a price that's between 'Episode 1 and full price.'"

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2006/8/25/5110

It seems ever more unlikely Valve will be offering TF2/Portal as seperate downloads. I can hardly blame them on a business front, with the rabid fanbase they've got they could charge what they liked. Still bloody annoying though.

I don't understand why they would do that. It seems like they're stabbing them selves in the gut after all the feed-back saying Episode 1 didnt have enough content. :

I hope the Ep 2 package with TF2 and Portal costs 20 dollars >.<

I hope it costs 30 so I can feed valve money for adding portal and TF2

I hope it costs -20 dollars so i get some more money :).

If Ep1 costed 19$ - Ep2 + TF2 should cost over 30..

well VAVLe got me me addicted to the half-life series...so it doesnt really matter what the price is I MUST HAVE IT!

if anyone posts here that they are in any way grateful for the price hike, they should perhaps consider only posting on the steampowered forums

I like feeding gabe money

Neat pic, Joba..

Olde.

I think the ruling statement for this clearly important issue is "who gives a crap".

"Gee wilikers Batman! Who would've thunk that a company actually wants to make money?"

"Definately not me Robin! These are disturbing times..."

I did already state I couldnt blame them on business grounds, but if you honestly believe your trite statement then where do you draw the line, if ever. Would you accept an involutanry expansion pack that gave advantages to its users over those of the regular game (coughbf2)?

I'm only mildly annoyed, just don't accept everything from Valve so fucking blindly, like they're the gods of gaming or something.

(admittedly I should stop disagreeing with them so much)

Who cares. Valve releases some of the greatest games on earth. If Episode 2 ships with TFC2 and Portal, I say it should be 40 to 50 dollars! Valve delivers everytime with great games and innovative gameplay. The cost of the game should reflect the time and work that went into the game.

I'd rather wait and spend my money on Spore then.

I'm going to have to get Portal no matter what. If that means I'm going to have to buy Episode 2 as well then so be it. I'll try my best to wait untill Episode 3 to play it, blargh.

All games should be priced according to how good they are, it would make choosing which ones to buy so much simplerer!

Point is Jobabob, they could do a lot worse (the pricing system for WoW for example is fucking insane). The pricing, imo, justifies the content we are receiving, so I have no problem in forking over the money.

It does justify the content but I thought they loved doing 3 million pricing models, so people could dispense with stuff they didnt want. I suppose if they bundle 1 and 2 in a pack wit the rest i'll have to go with that, 8 hours is about as long as Prey anyway.

Some games have a horrible issue with length. Given the normal production times, it now takes much longer to create content than before (yes, even with terrain and sprite generating techniques).
As an example, I always refer to the Tomb Raider saga. The first game (1996) had textures of 64x64, huge levels and a lot of backtracking. About 15 hours long on a first try.
Making a game like that today would be unacceptable, and the example is what came out of "Tomb Raider: Legend". Pretty graphics and models, and about 4 or 5 hours of play in your first run. Meh...

As for the HL2 episodes... There aren't many (if any) games that would deserve the price of purchase more than them.
I do agree that a whole single HL2:Aftermath game would have been a bit more exciting and satisfying.

I'm only mildly annoyed, just don't accept everything from Valve so fucking blindly, like they're the gods of gaming or something.

Jeez, you make it sound like a conspiracy theory or something ;P - EP1 was abit of a rip, I agree. If they bundle TF2 with EP2 I'll buy it for a little more, mostly because its multiplayer and that equals a bunch of playtime. I can't think, as Kasperg said, of any other games I would want to really buy anyway.

Ep 1 came with hldm: source and allows you to play hl: source as well if you know how Steam works.

Thats some great logic there kasperg, I couldn't help but think of it as I hit the 200hour mark in Oblivion.

What you actually mean is it tends to COST more, tomb raider still took a couple years to make, especially given the antiquated hardware. Anyway, episode1/2 are expansions and not seperate games. HL2 is nearly 2 years old now, its hardly 'next gen' and they already have a great deal of the content (esp the engine) made.

200 hours of unique gameplay? I'd have to see it to believe it. I mean, my 100 hours of Final Fantasy VIII had a lot of random combats and backtracking... Please keep sandbox style games out of the discussion as they are a whole different matter. Sonic & Knuckles takes less than an hour to complete and it was (is) a superb game. It has nothing to do with that.

About HL2 not being next gen... what exactly is 'next gen' in your opinion? Since you seem worried about all the pricing and stuff, I'd hardly think you'd prefer a game like Crysis (etc) over a HL2 expansion since if forces you to spend a lot on new Dx10 hardware...

the pricing system for WoW for example is fucking insane

gtfo. I can afford WoW with my pocket money, not to mention if I had a job. Consider the amount of content it's all well spend.

The Elder Scrolls : Oblivion has no end.
There's just too much to do there.. I'd like to see someone, who had the patience to actually complete everything in that game..

The Elder Scrolls : Oblivion has no end.
There's just too much to do there.. I'd like to see someone, who had the patience to actually complete everything in that game..

..?!

What the christ does unique gameplay mean? I'd say my 30 hour romp through Dungeon Siege with a friend was pretty unique! Even if you literally mean 'you are not grinding' or 'visting the same place' Oblivion has at least 40 hours of gameplay in it, I just wanted to do every major questline.

(I use the term 'next gen' to mean the future direction of gaming, whatever it may be, hl2 is not really graphically comparable to more recent games)

.. and you still haven't finished it all.
That's my point. I never said anything bad about the gameplay.

Please keep sandbox style games out of the discussion as they are a whole different matter.

o rly.

(2700 hours of /played on my main warrior, propably over 3000 in total (WoW))

Well the one thing we have to agree with is: if Valve prices their games unfairly, 90% of game companies do so even more.

Exactly, now lets create a riot and burn EA and DICE.

Why? I just browsed through the maps of the new BF 2142. Looks like they converted the most hated map : Zatar Wetlands to 2142 and Sharqi peninsula. And most of the other maps show a hughe resemblance to the maps from the expansion packs. How low can you go?

To make it even worse, there are fourty unlocks in weapons availible and they downed the amount of classes from 7 to 4.

BF2 stays fun because of:
1. A few maps that has a semi-different gameplay each time you play them.

2. The weapons are 'balanced'(up to the release of SF)

3. the different classes require different techniques on different servers.

Heck, the only good thing i can think about is the Titan gameplay mode. But that isnt quite new, anybody remember coral sea?

You're forgetting the new vehicles. I'm not certain, of course, but I think they'll add lots of different gameplay. Same goes for the new weapons. In any case, blame it on EA. Everything bad in the gaming world is caused by them. Always.

As for HL2's Episodes, I can completely understand valve's pricing. Yes, it's pretty expensive in relativity to the amount of new content, but people're paying for it, right? I thought marketing and, um, selling stuff was about making money. I guess I must be wrong.

EA/DICE have been given my seal of 'perma boycott' after BF2, its not like its hard to avoid their games, I know I'll be dissapointed and frustrated playing them anyway.

My main argument (again) was that they arent producing more pricing models, the result being a single increase price. It would be nice for these addons, especially given the popularity of TFC, to be sold seperately like everything else on steam.

(after typeing this and looking back I realize its extreamly tangent prone, like all of my rants, reports, papers, etc

I got prey for $50, got 4 hours of gameplay out of it
I got Oblivion for $50 and got 2 hours of gameplay out of it before it got dull
I got BF2 for $30 and spent a day playing it and haven't touched it since
I got FEAR for 50 and got 5 hours of gameplay out of it

lemme back track for a second now, back to, say, 1997, when I got doom, I've gotten about 50 hours from it and the mods me (in anchinet times) and others made for it and some random hours spent playing MP

Got Populous the begginning for $30 at a toy's R us back in 98, got at least 30 hours out of that

Got Half-life for $35 (I think, whatever it was when it was released) and have so far pulled at least 200 hours out of it, apx. 70 from the SP and the rest from mods, not to mention probably 1000's of hours in the Half-life comunities. then you have the expansions and such, not to mention all the maps and mods i've made and played starting in 2001.
(valve has already got the best money I ever spent)

fast forward again to around the present.

I got HL2 for 50 and HL ep 1 for 20, that $70 has given me 40 hours of SP gameplay and alot of MP.

but, remember how I got fear and prey for 50 and only got about 10 hours combined from them?

I think valve has quite a few things going for them that those guys didn't.

now, in line with that, let me tell you the cause of all this declineing play quality, and time. it is because of

Piss
Poor
Level Design

not mapping mind you, those two words have evolved into two different things.

and if no one understands what I mean by that, let me explain.

art creation takes time, yes. but so many levels have all these custom art requirements. each individual map requireing the time of an art team.

now look back at HL and doom and such, there was a baseline of art created over the cycle, custom things were made when you couldn't creativly use what you already had.

and not only have level designers lost the imagination to play around with some rotations and resizing and light to make something new out of something old, they have lost creative design entirely. none of the maps are designed around gameplay anymore. there all based around a gimmic, or a half-assed plot. its like they are trying to shift games to being movies with the plot lines. you can't build a game around a plot line alone, the level designers have to use what everyone else gives them to make a fun game.

more later if I feel like it

Well, i played a good 423 hour of battlefield 2. 10 cents a hour calculated from 50 dollars. Not bad i geuss.

Spend some more time on karkand and wake Garg .

I spend 103 hours on strike at karkand.
and 98 hours on wake island 2007.

It's not just the level design - it's the overall design.
Woo! New FPS from EA/Dice/Whatthefuckever!

You play as John Smithstish, an I'm-really-pissed-cause-my-nemesis-slaughtered-my-family-and-chopped elite swat/special forces guy and fights for all, that's good (that usually involves killing thousands of 'bad guys, who probably have families too)..
So you go on, through like 15-20 seamless missions, that might involve some thinking, before you shoot, die and quickload for the 100th time. And then you finally get your revenge on the guy, who killed your family.

Of course, the game will have amazing new weapons, that somehow might remind you of the ones you saw @ Splinter Cell and other FPS games..

And let's not forget about the retail package, that's gonna have "Amazing new gameplay", "50+ Newly designed weapons" and crap like that all over it..
:

thats the EA approch

and level design is what ties the entire game together.

even horrible overall design can be fixed if the team is a bunch of skilled LD's who can make fun gameplay

You're all hopeless nostalgics. Level design has, if anything, improved since the doom days (where get-the-blue-key-for-the-blue-door was as advanced as it got) - you just remember those games better because you liked them. I agree about the length and intuition of games though - FPSes are practically carbon copies of eachother (Prey, Q4, D3 and all of those piles of crap people tend to call games), not only copying style and gameplay but plots and content aswell. It buggers the hell out of me.
Valve did an amazing job with HL2, looking back. It kept me interested and satisfied for 2 play-throughs, and I've played through it twice since the first 2.

Anyway, M_, comparing your "1000s of hours of gameplay" from half-life and games like BF2 is just nonsense. If you'd LIKED BF2 you'd play it more, and get mods for it, and get involved in fan-sites. The actual content of the game plays small parts in your arguement, whereas personal taste doesn't.

If only more developers would allow themselves to be more creative, and spend time making truely entertaining gameplay instead of making new monsters and weapons and whatnot.

Hm, this was a quite random and badly written rant, but meh, can't be arsed to rephrase.

I think we're digressing from the fact that Steam is awful and Valve are awful for creating it, theyve taken more money in terms of time getting things to work, than they did when I bought HL2.

This was a badly written and nonsensical rant to fit in with the above 5 replies.

How can you say that? I feel filthy whenever I go out to the store now and actually buy a DVD, or CD-ROM of a game in a case. Its so easy to just punch in my debit/credit card number (WHich I just got a week ago, WOOT to that) wait a few seconds, then have the game downloading and ready to go in a short amount of time.

Getting up and actually going to "the local piggly wiggly of video and computer accessories" is unheard of to me, now that Steam is here to save me the time and effort

All I say is woot. woot to valve, woot to steam, and woot to episode 1, 2, and TFC2! (and woot to Xyos!)

I prefer to actually go out and buy my games retail for the purpose of feeling like I actually "own" a copy of the product. I also like having the box that comes with the game so I can add it to my collection. I have only downloaded a few things that I have paid for through steam. I think the system is good thought.

have you ever used an online store xyos?

i wish every games company had its own online store, so I had 30 icons on my desktop

That same thought came to me recently. Steam is fine, and maybe I'd be fine with one other download service, but if every game company starts picking up on this trend, it's just going to be painful (especially if they all hog as many resources and are as intrusive as Steam). Worried I am of the future.

woah.

I just found an old memory card for my PS1 and found that i played Final Fantasy Seven for 400 hours..............not bad for ?12

The only reason I buy games for any reason is so that I can feel that I own a hard-copy of the game - legally. Buying files on a server seems like idiocy to me.

I have played Guild Wars for 1500+ hours over 16 months. Not bad for a $50 game eh?

yes but you are sad and have no life

Pwned.