Kasperg Projects! Created 18 years ago2006-04-25 18:24:30 UTC by Kasperg

Jeez, when did people "attack you"? The only one's that been very ad hominem in this thread in Trapt, and you should know better than to pay attention to his insults (no offence, trapt).

Initially, people were trying to give you helpful comments, nothing else.

Your map and you, i meant both, you didn't even consider peoples advice, hence the go at you (not really an attack, more so reasoning). Don't start anything else needlessly.

I' m out of this.

You know I've been following this thread and yet I haven't really commented on your current work...

Alright my big concern so far is that sand...It's strange...In a way that puts me off but I just can't put my finger on it...I think the normal map / bump map is a strange combination...Perhaps you should replace it with this:

Ah shoot...The texture isn't on Google anymore but you can sort of see it here:

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://xoomer.virgilio.it/uoshare/sabrine-resources/textures/texture-sand001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sabrine-resources.splinder.com/&h=1300&w=1300&sz=561&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=X4kIZ-32Ro__lM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsand%2Btexture%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

Anyway this picture: http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5661/pic3lk5.jpg

Is very nice, the colours mix quite well at 'this' angle but the other shots don't blend so good...

To be honest the architecture doesn't feel up to your standards...Especially since the last map I played was the architectural arch one.

My suggestions really are change the sand texture...Perhaps that will make the map theme more attracting.

Yay. Back on track!

I have considered peoples advice and I have given my sensible reasons of why I don't agree with the proposed changes.
Pushing your personal view of a map into the author once he has already discarded those particular changes is not really as helpful as you might think. That's why my next replies had sarcasm. Because my normal answers weren't enough to make my ideas understood and defend them.
When the map is being called "random" "bland" and "empty" after so many hours of work (and you know it in your heart to be wrong statements), you don't usually answer: "Geez, how did I overlook that? Thanks for your fantastic input. I will destroy all the lightmap grids I have so carefully tweaked, redo all those custom materials and maybe even put your name in the map"!
You guys have known me for quite a long time. My objective is not making a map "as good as it can possibly be". I just want to make it as good as I can without having to suffer or spend more time than I feel the map deserves.

@Habboi: I'm going to compile a version with a different sand and see if it helps or hurts the map.

If you know in your heart that your map is the most fantastic piece of artwork ever made, then don't ask for comments on it.

Alright, i don't want to start anything further, and i was going to stay out of this but i wanted to reply.

When the map is being called "random" "bland" and "empty" after so many hours of work (and you know it in your heart to be wrong statements), you don't usually answer: "Geez, how did I overlook that? Thanks for your fantastic input. I will destroy all the lightmap grids I have so carefully tweaked, redo all those custom materials and maybe even put your name in the map"!

If you don't want to change it, that's fine. But all i am really asking is that you try some subtle changes. Save a copy of this map, tweak the lighting a little bit, add a few props, rethink a few texture choices. No one wants you to completely scrap or redesign the map. I've said it before, i like the architecture, i just don't think some of the textures compliment it very well.

Try this or don't. If you do decide to, please post some comparison shots and see if people like it, if they do (which i honestly think they will) you won't regret having made those minor changes.

We never intended to offend you.

i think it looks nice with or without that big yellow block

Updates: In this version, I have changed the blueish concrete for a white HL2 texture. The orange sand is now one of those yellow grass textures.
Even if it doesn't look better now, it's kind of fun to see how much the map changes with only 2 texture replacements. I could try 100 different colour schemes and there wouldn't really be much of a difference.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3127/xpic1ul2.jpg

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4540/xpic3ba5.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3773/xpic4dp8.jpg

Right now I'm compiling a version with different env lighting.

I like what i see more, it's got very interesting architecture, and the textures seem to work with each other more. At the risk of sounding extremely naggy, i'm going to recommend 2 more changes.

1) That blue texture used on the short walls in the second screen could be replaced with a more natural looking texture (you could re-colour a plaster/concrete wall material from HL2, to stay with the blue look, it seems to work well).

2) A little more colourful lighting (not the env_light) but the small light's you've got located around the map, i think slightly deeper greens/teals/blues would look very nice when contrasted with an orangey sky.

Again, this is just an opinion, try it or don't.

Ok, I also agree the blue texture needs to be redone. It's the only 256x256 texture of the lot, and I was going to change it soon. I thought you guys meant the problem was the colour, not the texture itself.

About the lights, I don't know how to change the colour of the model, and that's why most of the lights are yellow. There are other red lights and the combine spotlights have a blue-purple hue.
The problem is, while you think different light colours would work well, someone will come around saying that they will feel forced and random. The same happens in university when you have 2 different teachers for the same subject. They sometimes contradict themselves.
At the end of the day, you need to stick with one of the contrary opinions.

Ok, but judging from those screens there seems to be a slight overabundance of yellow lights, i can imagine it'd get a little dull to look at for too long.

As for changing the colour of the light models, i don't think it'd be necessary, the light may shade the model in the right colour, or you could possibly change it to one of those small metal spotlight models (with the grey base, and plain white light).

I thought you guys meant the problem was the colour, not the texture itself.

The original custom textures you used had a particularly stylistic almost toony feel about them. They would be fine if every other texture had the same style, or if you do it the way you're doing now, with all HL2 styled materials. Up to you though really.

Keep it up.

A dm_suspended_vanilla version
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9654/vainilla1bl5.jpg

The toony feeling was part of the map. As Habboi said some weeks ago, it has a playground feel.
HL2DM is, after all, just a game. I didn't have to be ultra realistic when mapping for DM, so I think HL2DM doesn't need a Counter-Strike look either. What's the point of making a map if it's going to look like the rest?

Well then if you really liked the toony feel, i'd recommend using entirely toony materials. Though it'd probably extend the production time out quite a bit making/replacing all the textures, but you'd need some models and details to suit the theme, hard to make i can imagine.

The deep lighting in that screenshot looks pretty cool btw.

I don't mean toony in a literal way. Even in a real-life playground, textures would still be grainy and have noise.
As for models for the theme, they are not necessary if the theme is abstract. That was the whole point of the original HLDM version. This one has better lightmaps, decals and an industrial skybox, but I still wanted it to be undefined. In a singleplayer map, you need a story. In a CS map you also need some sort of story. In HL2DM, you need a good layout, good looks and lots of fun.

The first modified version with the whitish walls looked so much better than the original. They're not even comparable.

You could also say that it looks much more plain and empty, and wouldn't really be wrong either.
As you can seem almost everything is valid with such a map...

man, Lots of interesting things going on in this thread

I do agree with Exos though. In almost everything he said.

I have to say that Kasperg earned his right to be respected as an excellent mapper. I would be so bold as to say he might be the best one here.

Jealousy is so horrible. I hate to see good mappers get treated like crap from other jealous plain boring mappers.

A common buzzword people love to say is "lighting is crap". They never give suggestions on how to fix it, or if they do they are not very good....

Map:
Very unique feel. I love the way you actually did a good job with custom materials.

Lighting is also great. Higher lightmaps make the shadows really come out. Light placement behind brushes give cool shadow effects.

bevelled corners, edges, walls, cylinders, etc make it look clean and smooth.

Looks very fun for gameplay. Cant wait to play it on my brothers server!

I would say its a 5 star map. It looks good. Nothing really to say to fix.

when will it be available?

I'm not sure, I have some university work due for this week, so I think next Saturday might be good for playtesting. If the gameflow is anything like the HLDM version, I think it will be fun. I'm not really a good HL2DM player to be honest. I've played online like two times (once in dm_lockdown and and another time in dm_overwatch. Maybe I tried dm_underpass, I'm not sure)

Edit: yet another colour scheme:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8981/red1zk4.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8356/red2cc1.jpg

Nah...the white HL2 text was the best, imo.

Icky red. Fuck the red! (Even though I am... "fond" of the colour red). I agree with Caboose!

shut the fuck up. please

I gave up reading half-way down this page, so i dont honestly know if it's been settled, but after quickly glancing over it, i'm gonna stab at 'no, it hasn't.'

Trapt, Kasperg is a fantastic architectural level designer. You can see it in all his maps. He clearly thinks up logical, realistic locations and builds them just like that which is a rather neat skill, to say the least. Half the community 'suck his dick' because they respect him and his work. He posts screenshots, not to make sure people are always looking up to him, but simply to show people what he's recently made, like any mapper would.

Kasperg, I don't know what set you off, but your response to Ant's beginning posts was silly and hot-headed. I suggest you try some of their suggestions. Don't like 'em? Change them back. I agree with you about the lighting of Avalon. That is incredibly dull, and your map does look better with the contrast that the brightness creates. Maybe you could change the colour and/or the ambience. It could perhaps go for a dusk/dawn look... Something that goes nicely with the sand, and'll make the concrete match the coloured plaster supports a bit more. Orangey light does that

Strider, OMFG teh sex now k?

Edit:

woah, where'd all the posts go?

hmm. i appear to have missed the last page... Consider my post a reply that would be at the end of page 6.

Thx.
Sadly I can't change the lighting because:
1)I went through a lot of trouble to create my 2D skybox, Although the cloud tone is magenta-purple, the light in the 2D images matches the sun angles I chose for the light_enviroment.
2)The lightmap grid adjustments were also done according to the sun angle.

The problem with the argument was that a mapping discussion deviated to personal accusations. My intention was to prove my view of those mapping aspects vs. some of the observations I did not agree with. I did that in a questionable sarcastic matter, yes. But not in a silly or hot-headed way. If you read the first posts again, it won't be hard to spot what set me off.
The intention was always to defend my point of view. The first "suggestions" given to me weren't exactly polite tbh.

Looking good kasperg, i like the architecture, though somehow the textures dont quite match, maby it has to do something with the bright lightning(could also be my screen, high gamma by default).

I'll make more experiments with lighting.
I have one question though. When people say 'textures don't match' or 'textures clash', what does that exactly mean?

There seems to be an preconceived idea in the level design world that says a map should stick to a certain palette (yellowish de_dust, greenish de_aztec, blueish datacore etc). I'm not sure I think it should really be such a closed issue
In my opinion, it gives maps a very forced look. For example. My maps Guardian, Sandscroll, Tinnos etc. have the same palette throughout the map, because they are temples built with the same materials, same style etc. Places where the "virtual architect" of that world had the time to think about it.
In an abstract generic-industrial area like dm_suspended, I don't think matching textures is a need. I see the place more like an arena designed to combine a set of structures that were close together. What do you think?

I think there is a limit, you can change textures completely over an extended area, or a few rooms... but constantly changing textures in the same room or in the same 'view' can make it too cluttered up..
Your peach-ish one is great imo because it almost matches up with the white by being a pale similar tone.
The basic theory is that a room with 3 colours can look good, but you wouldn't paint every single wall in your house a different colour... It's nice to have things match and stay the same the whole way through, even in an abstract environment, it's just easier on the eyes...

Well, I for one had a good time last night. Dunno about anyone else.

Now to address the complete retards who had a dig at me!

Obviously, everyone is going to have different opinions on what they like and don't like. If we have differing opinions, you can't have a go at me, and I can't have a go at you. If you DO however take a swipe, you can't expect NO retaliation.

Jealousy: oh yes indeed. I'm so jealous of Mr. Kasperg's brilliant mapping skills! THEY'RE SO MUCH BETTER THAN MINE BECAUSE I AM INFERIOR AND AM JEALOUS. I couldn't give a shit what standard a mapper has, I treat each map with indivuality and without bias. If you think I'm having a go at him because I'm 'jealous,' then you can politely gtfo. I'm inclined to my opinion on a map and nobody can stop me from putting it out there. It's not like I've been jealous in the past with his previous maps: in fact I quite enjoy them. So shut the fuck up and stop making assumptions about how and what I think about Kasperg.

Hunter: wow, you ARE a complete douchebag. I never said his architecture was bad. In fact, it's rather interesting. But you can't just slap any old random textures on decent architecture. It looks horrible. It really does. Why don't you read the whole thread next time without jumping to conclusions? I'll stop you from looking like a complete arsehat. The way Kasperg reacted to Ant was hotheaded and rather unnecessary, and even YOU acknowledged that. Perhaps that's the reason I got the impression he only posts screenshots for praise? I dunno, you decide.

For everyone else: I hope you enjoyed the show. Perhaps I should entertain more often, it seems to spark a nice bit of action and discussion, which is rather rare in a community full of spamming ball-lickers.

Jeez, when did people "attack you"? The only one's that been very ad hominem in this thread in Trapt, and you should know better than to pay attention to his insults (no offence, trapt).

No offence taken, Mr. Elof. I'm a little over the top, but drama = good. Don't pay attention to my flamish antics, everyone knows I'm only fucking around. Doesn't mean that everything I said isn't true though. Cos it all is.

Enjoy the map, all of those who... like it. D:

/me puts bumper-sticker on my back that says "pwned by Trapt" in big, friendly letters.

The basic theory is that a room with 3 colours can look good, but you wouldn't paint every single wall in your house a different colour.

The thing is, we are not talking about "a room" here The area is bigger and is a combination of different pieces. That's why they are textured differently, while still having a colour code I have already mentioned and which is similar to the original HLDM map.
There are smaller rooms in the map, and texturing is much more limited in them. A big area with strict texturing looks... bad! Unless we are talking about a unified area (a public building etc.)

edit:

I'm inclined to my opinion on a map and nobody can stop me from putting it out there.

And so can I, as far as I know. Specially if I've spent more time looking at the map in question.

Bump:
New videowalkthrough >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JbPTW3AwYs

In this version, I have tried a combination of white concrete for walls and the blueish concrete for the big ceiling structure. I think some walls need more decals now that the texture is so clean.
The brown plates seen in the ceiling are now magnetic, and you can use them as traps leaving a physics object there so that it falls some seconds latter upon a distracted player.

Seriously, what the fuck did just happen?!
A flame war, over a few screenshots?!

Jeez.. Let's host a drama queen competition.

@Kasperg: Personally - I liked the reddish theme best.. As long as you keep the red color light.
Great architecture too. Lookin' good.

I know I should've released a beta dm_suspended beta this weekend, but something has kept me away from the map.
Those who have seen Michael Bay's "The Island", might remember the facilities and the mansion seen in the film. Using the latter as an inspiration, I created a couple of concrete materials and started a Counter-strike: Source map (yes, you read it correctly! :o)

The minimalist style of the house might make it seem blocky, but I will try to compensate with lighting, some props and material effects.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2475/renovatio2lo3.jpg

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/6673/renovatio3bd6.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9655/renovatio4pq2.jpg

Its hard to see the material from the small image size Why did you re-size it?

The map really looks good. As I looked at it I was reminded of FEAR (in a good way )

Can you post some close ups?

I resized them because I initially thought of posting them as images.
Here's a full-res version, although that's how it looked yesterday.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/103/renovatio1rl9.jpg

It also reminds me of FEAR a bit.

The mapping/lighting looks nice, but its still hard to see the individual texture detail. I can see them, but not with clarity. I was hoping for a close up of them.

As far as I can tell they really look quite good. Ive never seen the movie though

My only gripe is CSS jk, CSS isnt so bad. THis type of map would not really fit the theme of HL2DM or any other mod.

It does give an uncanny reminder of FEAR. The texturing looks really bizzare. Nothing seems to match And that concrete texture doesn't look right. It looks too repetitive, or the contrast is too much or something, it just looks odd.

reminds me of splinter cell
nice

Looks fine to me. Looks like a nice matching blue/greyish whitish theme.

The texure is fine. I dont know what Worldcraft dude means when he says:

[quote]The texturing looks really bizzare. Nothing seems to match And that concrete texture doesn't look right. It looks too repetitive, or the contrast is too much or something, it just looks odd.[quote]

??

Looks like every other valve texure to me. Well done I say

Closeups of the materials.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/341/redetail1ug2.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7396/redetail2ny0.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1549/redetail3jl6.jpg

And a picture from the film, showing the color scheme I was inspired by.

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1092/redetail4ep7.jpg

I'm having problems with how water looks. My Radeon 9600 XT seems to refract the water much less than what my geforce4 Ti 4200 did before. You have to get really close to the water to notice it's actually there

I like the normal map on the concrete. Creates a cool effect with the fire in picture 1

Seems to match the theme of the actual photo well. I cant really give any crtique's on the materials in a negative way. Does not seem to have any problems.

All I can say is its looking really good.

BTW, whatever happened to the HL2DM one? Still working on it?

Oh ya, and I love my avatar!

Inspired from The Island?

I think that would make a sweet mod.

The HL2DM one is finished, but I need to include all the custom materials with pakrat in order to release it.

An "Island" themed mod would be cool. HL2 has a lot of useful things for that theme. Changing the citizen outfit from blue to white would be an easy step. And then we have the TV screens, scanners etc.
Imagine Dr. Breen announcing the "Island Lottery".

Through the whole movie, i compared it to HL2. Its do-able.

I was thinking that girl whos breen's accomplice (w/e the fuck her name was) would be a lottery girl, and breen would be the head guy of the project.

Mossman? I was more thinking a young hot blonde... I compared Half-Life 2 to The Island as I saw that movie before I ever played Half-Life.

It seems to match the movie very nicely, but the holes in the wall texture look kind of...odd. :

I made a new material to replace the combine glass. I don't know why, but the cubemap reflections are not as visible as before.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/163/renoglassou6.jpg

This might be a little off-topic.
Working on this CS:S map has made me revisit cs_fallingwater, where I have made some material and lighting updates (I'm thinking of HDR for the future, but who knows how many hours of compile time it would mean)
The thing is, I've done more research on Kaufmann House, and I found this cool website with about 40 views of the house in 360?. Some details that I didn't get from other photos have shown up. Plus, they have a very First Person look to them. Check them out if you're interested >> http://www.learn.columbia.edu/ha/html/modern.html#360panoramas

Bump
To anyone who cares, cs_fallingwater will be released around the same time as dm_suspended.

Even though the interior is now more detailed and has better lighting, the outside areas have been vastly reduced. The performance boost is very noticeable.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ag_sOnD0hsg
I've also done some HDR tests (not in this video) and it looks even better.
The only problem is the horrible time it takes to create a nav file for the bots

Edit: First combat with bots has been... very sluggish. Honestly, I think I need a new game engine and a couple of years of hardware advances to make this playable. I'm going to delete the reflective water and give it another try.
Maybe placing spawn points in different areas to make combat happen in the inside...

Bump number4 (this is almost a journal!)

-If you played the HL2 version, you might notice some of the textures (walls, floors) have been improved.
-Skybox is almost ready.
-Getting rid of the reflective water helped performance a lot.
-I moved the spawn points to postpone combat encounters until the CS team is reaching the house.
-I covered some physics props with a "block bullets" brush. I know it's not realistic, but the performance hit when they got shot was too big.
-As you can see in the screenshots, HDR is up and running.
-Now I need to think of a way to make the stream behave like water when shot. Right now, there are no splashes if you fire...

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/1530/hostiesvn0.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9141/pic4ud0.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3656/pic2ho2.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3503/dead1nx3.jpg

so, can we play it?