TWHL Mix 2? Created 17 years ago2007-02-17 21:35:50 UTC by monster_urby

I haven't mentioned "success" or "author" anywhere but that might have been the impression I gave.
We were talking about how challenging it is to map for one or the other. What you really meant is how challenging it is to make a successful map.

About effort and success, I'm one who believes that you don't need the biggest effort to make a successful map. As a matter of fact, you will find most of my HL1 maps undetailed (and within engine limitations), and some of them will still play and look better than maps with more brush detail and redundant trusses/other structures around the whole map. Effort doesn't mean filling the map with useless detail. Spending some time planning the layout and theme does wonders.

Of course, knowing how certain things work in real life prevents me from making structural nonsense that would look OK to most players. In that sense the architect inside me is winning the battle against the gamer
I hate that little architect...

Edit:we are officially NOT hijacking the thread. TWHL Mix 2 should run on what TWHL decides

Orpheus

Ok-Ok-Ok kthx bye

TWHL Mix 2

I'm in!

Goldsource

Yes!

Anyone can run Half-Life 1 lol, even if they don't own the game. You can download that Uplink demo and run any single player level from the console (that's why you can't use the console in the HL2 demo).

TWHL Mix 2?
I would say this is a bad idea.

Different mappers, different styles, different quality ranges.
I would personally be dissapointed if I would walk in this greatly done area by some mapper and then walk in a badly made area by a other mapper. I would like to see the quality be the same troughout the whole map.

If you guys do carry on with this project, I would stick to a solid theme. I would find it strange to first be in a Egyptian like area and then walk in a nuclear facility, to take a extreme example.

You need a leader for organisation, some people to take care of the textures for everyone and obviously mappers.

..

About the small discussion Orpheus and Kasperg had:

I got HL1 and HL2, trust me, HL2 works just fine for me.
Yet, I prefer HL1 above HL2. HL1 is just more fun.
I like HL1's cartoony look and unrealisticness.
Shooting someone to gibs always makes me smile.

Also, I think 90% of the HL2 maps look alike.
I like some diversity in the maps i'm playing.

But heh, I prefer HL2 mapping above HL1 mapping.
Simply because you have more possebilities. (Spelling!?)
..and the I/O system is fantastic.

I don't care much about succes.
Aslong as I'm proud on my maps, i'm happy.

Cease all Source v. Goldsource discussion after this point, nobody gives a shit right now since we decided on Goldsource for this project. Im sure all the senior mappers reading this will agree with me

Now to determine a leader,
so far we have participating:
Jahzel, Muzz, im assuming urb, strider, ZL, PB, espen180, hunter, Kinrah, sajo, and me. ant, kasperg, and tawnos prime haven't said anything definitly as to if they are going to participate or not.

from those people and anyone else who would like to assist we should pick a capable leader. preferably the BEST leader and not not the best mapper.

i dunno if i'm in or not.

that's not a yes or a no. I wanna see which way this will go first.

meh I think it should be Urbanebula since he isnt working on other projects and if he has some extra time. He will accept it. (also he started the thread)

or Kasperg

As a starter, I vote for Muzz and Hunter.

No.

No.

Don't like working with Hunter?

I dont think they have that time since they have their own projects.

Garg: im assuming urb

You assume correctly

sajo: I dont think they have that time since they have their own projects.

We all have our own projects.

sajo:;it should be Urbanebula since he isnt working on other projects

Ummm...The words "HL:Event Horizon Lead Texture Artist currently working his arse off." come to mind.

Don't like working with Hunter? grin -

"No" as in: No, i don't want to be a leader.

Thats not an argument inducing reply, just accept that if I wanna discuss something, there isn't anyone here with enough clout to stop it.

thats rediculous! Thats almost as idiotic as a 4 year old trying to get the last word in an argument.
-
I would like to make a minor contribution to this project, if anyone will allow me to ride their coat-tails. I don't have nearly enough time (or dedication) to make a large contribution, but it would be nice to say that I was part of a TWHL group effort.

I'm way to swamped to consider this.

Exams
Hostage Situation (Which is a bloody full-time job)
dm_freelancer (:O SEKRET OF NEW DM MAP REVEALED)
de_microplay
Gyradell Invasion
Random Horror map with Livewire

That's them in order of priority.

However, my offer to voice act and make textures is still valid.

yeah, i got a lot on my plate with 6D and school.

I'm out.

[humortag]
HL released in 1998 + your last HL map released in 2002 (excluding SPCbeta) = 4 years of HL mapping experience, right? Unless you are comparing actual mapping with reviewing and testing... I just feel they are different.
I started playing soccer at school when I was 6. I quit at the age of 10, but since then I have played occassionally and watched a lot of matches on TV. Hey that makes have about 17 years of soccer experience!! Does that make me a senior soccer player?
[/humortag]
Seriously, the concept of senior mappers is overrated. Some people reach in a year of mapping a level that might take other mappers three years. It's about how much time you actually spend mapping, and how much you learn and improve. And of course, your imagination plays a big part.

I can't be the project leader. I have no previous experience in sharing projects and I'm working on my minimod as well as university stuff. I nominate Urbanebula for starting the thread!

SPIRIT! And name the mod "Spirit of TWHL" with random maps from pretty much everybody who wants to join up? And have a group of members who judge the maps so that no crap can come in?

I want in on this!

Heh, kas has a good point. Seniority is overrated.

I couldn't do anything when I got here, now i do a lot and a map to me invloves more than just hammer.

I nom Urb. But if this isn't a crap load of work, i might be in, yet i can't make up my mind. Also, i dont want to be leader. I'm already leader in the 6D effort.

good question, Orpheus.

what are you doing here?

My my, it is like a battle of, well...god knows what in the forums.

As for TWHL Mix 2, I'm fairly interested in joining. It'll give me a chance to pull HL1 out of retirement.

me too!
i vote for a disjointed story - just make it some guy (NOT related to gordon freeman in any way at all) randomly going through teleports to random places.

pull HL1 out of retirement

OMG... I haven?t moved on from HL1, I?m stuck in the past.
I don?t get much time to play with mapping/testing limits/skills, but when I do, I still enjoy it.

I?m not ready for HL2....I still noob.



/me gets back in the closet with the moth-balls


I would still like to help, include me in as the noobiest member, give me a task (easy/medium) and see how I do.

Map a replica of Grand Central Station

Ok, let me see.....

Take map DE_Tent (no one using that old thing) from map vault put train tracks through middle and there you have it.



/me starts to undo the Durex pack and looks at espen180.....(see Avatar)

New owner of former map DE_Tent now DE_Tent Grand central Station

LeFtY ?

Copy write law:

Copyright occurs automatically when both of two conditions are satisfied:

1. the creation of an original work and

2. "fixation of that work in any tangible medium of expression."

17 USC ?? 101, 102(a), 302(a).

Loading copyrighted material into a computer's semiconductor memory does create a fixation that satisfies the legal test for copying.
MAI Systems Corp. v. Peak Computer, Inc., 26 U.S.P.Q.2d 1458, 1464 (1993), 991 F.2d 511, cert. dismissed, 510 U.S. 1033, 114 S.Ct. 671 (1994).

The current law in the USA requires neither a notice of copyright (e.g., "Copyright 1997 Ronald B. Standler") nor registration of the work with the U.S. Copyright Office. 17 USC ?? 401(a), 407(a), 408(a). However, if a work does have a notice, then an infringer can not claim a "defense based on innocent infringement in mitigation of actual or statutory damages". 17 USC ?401(d). And if a work is registered, then:

1. the registration is prima facie evidence of the validity of the copyright in litigation for copyright infringement. 17 USC ?410(c).

2. the author may file suit for infringement of the copyright. 17 USC ?411(a).

3. the author may seek an award of statutory damages between US$ 750 and US$ 30 000 (i.e., the author is entitled to money from the infringer, without the author needing to show financial loss from the infringement). If the infringement was "willful", the statutory damages can go as high as US$ 150 000. 17 USC ??412, 504(c).

4. a court may require the infringer to pay all of the attorney's fees of the author. 17 USC ??412, 505.

An author of a copyrighted work has the following exclusive rights conferred by 17 USC ?106:

1. to reproduce the work (e.g., to make copies)

2. to prepare derivative works (e.g., translation, abridgment, condensation, adaptation)

3. to distribute copies to the public (e.g., publish, sell, rental, lease, or lending)

4. to perform the work publicly

5. to display the work publicly

Note~ the infringer (LeFtY) cannot be touched if the work has been in TWHL Map Vault and if the work was uploaded on the 18 Dec 06 at 16:47

The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, Article 6bis(1), states:

Independently of the author's economic rights, and even after the transfer of the said rights, the author shall have the right to claim authorship of the work and to object to any distortion, mutilation or other modification of, or other derogatory action in relation to, the said work, which would be prejudicial to his honor or reputation.

Unfortunately, the U.S. national law does not recognize such "moral rights" of authors (except for the special case of authors of visual art, such as paintings, 17 USC ? 106A), although such rights for all authors are clearly specified in The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works quoted above, and despite the claim of the U.S.A. that, since 1 March 1988, the national law in the U.S.A. complies with the Berne Convention. 17 USC ?104(c).

Works of the U.S. Government (e.g., statutes, opinions of federal courts) are not protected by copyright inside the U.S.A. 17 USC ?105.

LeFtY ?

...I was in TWHL Mix 1, IIRC, and whoever was running it totally screwed up the lighting in my area and made it look butt ugly.

Therefore, I'm warning people: DO NOT TRUST SOMEONE ELSE WITH YOUR WORK unless you are 100% sure they won't screw it up.

Doing so could screw up your section and make you look like a shittier mapper than you really are.

k, good luck to those involved with this project. You'll need it.

Make a storyline in the same way you play the game of "consequences" - then it can be edited at the end in order to make some kind of sense. The more random it is the better.

On another note, if it's gonna be source - I'm out. Not only do I have trouble playing HL2, I have trouble mapping for it - the hammer keeps crashing, it's full of bugs and it's a waste of time until I can get myself a decent machine.

Spirit of Half-life would be cool, as there are plenty of things tat can be done.

Fuck all the HL2 yuppies!

As far as i know it is for HL, Spirit would be good too. Oh and randomness = win.

I've already started a little map for this.

I can't be waiting for youz peepulz to decide cos I'm impatient and I was bored.

I want to start, but I dont know what the S.P. is with custom textures. Can we just use any wad we want right now and include it in the final project? Or do we need a special TWHLMix Wad?

If we create this as a mini mod rather than a map pack we can include custom wads for each mapper. I think making a map with a custom wad and then adding the textures to one big wad would sechs the whole thing up the bottom.

Why don't we use a Hub setting? A central map that connects all the levels using fancy gates/portals/whatever. Kinda like what Reissues uses.

Cool idea Muzzleflash

I was, a while ago, thinking of mapping an 'alien abduction' themed map based on people's experiences etc...

It could be done easily

Dont know whether it's for this though

Heh, trust you to think of an alien theme, i think it'd rock if you went ahead with it. I'm looking forward to mapping a fun little set of maps, probably with a few TWHL-specific jokes and whatnot... maybe even some 'guest appearances'.

EDIT:

Why don't we use a Hub setting? A central map that connects all the levels using fancy gates/portals/whatever. Kinda like what Reissues uses.

Nice idea indeed, i think it'd be great if we each mapped our own little hub section (of course they'd have a pre-determined size and shape so putting it together is easy). Mmm.

This could be a good thing - if every mapper is given the chance to map multiple exit/entry routes which give the player a unique experience, shifting into other worlds/plots - all connected.

For example, in Hunters map, an exit route can leed to Muzz's map etc...

This method could even allow us to make secret areas which can only be accessed by following a certain route...

A lot of work, but worth it in the long-run

meh, I'm off too.

Reason: None

Nah, i would prefer a central hub map that connect to all other maps, and when a map is complete, the player returns to the hub map allowing him to play the next one, in no particular order. We can also add somekind of puzzle-ish gameplay to the hub map like:

To enter The Hunters map, you must get the security card from Habbois map, but the security card in Habbois map is locked behind doors and requires another card which is available in espens map. Eventually the player got access to Hunters map and at the end of his map, the player gets another security card. This card is required to enter the rocket in Jahzels map which will bring the player to Black Mesa Space Station. Or whatever. But the rocket needs to be fueled with liquid oxygen and hydrogen by turning the oxygen valve in my map, and turning the hydrogen valve in Urb's map. Only then the player can take the rocket to the BMSS. Are you following me?

I know it reguires a lot of planning but at least we intoduce something new...

Yeah, that works. Let's see if we can't confuse the players in the process.

Muzz, that is an awesome idea! But it would be kind of hard to keep track of all that. If you don't add a text on each map door/portal in the hub explaining what you need to do in order to get that map working?

It should be self explanatory. I dare say our wads will include signs, and we will have new voice sounds etc, informing the player.

The central Hub idea is brilliant. And in the same process Muzz described, secret areas can be unlocked etc.

Wouldn't it be cool if we made the mod with new weapons and monsters...

...More work I guess. (But shuts the HL2 whingers up )

I already have a texture theme for my map - it's very dark and urban (But not your average urban stuff, the city I am making is totally unconventional - like something from another dimension. Weird buildings with bizarre lab areas, winding alleyways and tunnels etc. It's called "Rabbithole" - a city in a parallel universe)

Yeah stuff like that is what i meant.

...awsome!

I like it.

We should definately go for Mini-Mod though. Custom textures and editing the title.txt in the ValvE folder can mess HL up.

I started on a map regardless.

This Afternoon I had this much...

BEWARE: THE FOLLOWING PNGS ARE HUGE ON HOSTED ON FREEWEBS. I PHAIL AT INTERNET

http://www.freewebs.com/demonicpuppy/twhlm10000.png

Pretty bland huh? So I sexeded it up. See Here...

http://www.freewebs.com/demonicpuppy/twhlm10001.png

Why, Urbanebula, why

I sorry.