Virginia Tech Shootings Created 17 years ago2007-04-16 22:30:22 UTC by BrattyLord

As all of the American members are aware, a person at Virginia Tech has just gunned down 32 students, making it the worst shooting rampage in United States history.

I just want to send my condolences to those who were affected by this tragedy. I have a friend who goes there, and studies engineering, and I just recently found out by e-mail that she is OK, thank God...

This incident absolutely sickens me... the extent to which a person can be driven to evil stuns me.

I just want to point out that this will probably spark, from some very sick people, debates about gun control, and how pop culture, including video games and music, would drive someone to do this. This is not the case, and I seriously hope people aren't mislead into treating this event as a political ploy. Please, be wary of what you hear, and don't give into such inappropriate discussions. Believe me when I say this: This man planned this act, and was driven to an extent of evil unknown to my mind, and no gun control, music, video-games and the such either prevented or encouraged him to do the things he did. Pray, Meditate, or even just think about the victims and their families, don't condemn or blame.

This tragedy has brought a great evil upon the world that has nothing to do with meaningless politics, it is a horrible incident done by a mislead and wrongful man, who acted alone out of reasons unknown.

33 people were shot. I don't really think any of the 20 regulars here at twhl were affected but heres a shout-out to everyone affected anyways.

Yeah, as of this mornings news report I beleive the number of deaths is now 33. The news also tells me this man was looking for his girlfriend at the school and it's unsure whether or not she was one of the casualties.

It's a disturbing and event.

Heard about it earlier tonight, 'tis sad and rather disturbing.

and the most hilarious thing about it was that even tho CNN and such were advertising the schools message boards for this issue the 2 threads on the-site-that-seems-to-be-hated-for-no-reason got more traffic.

America = screwed.

ZOMG TEH BRITISH R COMINGZ GET TEH GUNZ

Sad? yes.

Sick? yes.

America? yes.

I was wondering how long it would be until that idiot got involved. :/

Sad, yes.

Is it just me, or do school shootings only ever happen in America?

Well, there was one in Germany (not 100% sure though, might've been Holland) a few years ago. But other than that, I don't think I've heard of any outside the States.

Edit: Man, Thompson is a real prick.

America = screwed.

TRU DAT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings#List_of_school_massacres

They are mostly in America, yes.

Fucking Thompson again!

i was told he is in jail for chucking a psycho in court after losing yet again. is this true?

If it is, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

The issue is not gun control, the issue is Prozac.

Stop handing out prozac to teenagers and you'll prevent incidents like this happening.

Prozac was subscribed to the Collumbine killers. Psychotropic drugs should not be trusted - if a doctor recommends them please SAY NO. If you know anyone using them, inform them of the risks.

BUT ITS PRO

Some are saying that if people were allowed to carry concealed weapons, the death toll would have been lower. I kinda agree.

That motherfucker could've been taken down a lot quicker, though more guns could've created more chaos.

Hm.

Yes. The answer, clearly, is for everyone to carry a concealed weapon. That's why gun crime is so much lower in the US than in civilised Western countries.

Gun Control = More Gun Violence

Fucked up.

Jahzel, not true @ Columbine shooters, only one of them was on any sort of medication, and that wasn't actually Prozac, but Luvox which is essentially the same thing, but yeah you are right. I bet the guy who did this was on an SSRI too, there are literally 100's of murders related to SSRI's. I've taken SSRI's myself (took Zoloft for 4-5 months) and they made me feel suicidal, dissociated (unable to percieve pain, or not feel attached to it), and violent, so think what someone with less control experiencing these feelings could be capable of? SSRI's (especially Paxil) are horrid things and don't deserve to be on the market.

m0p, the shooter actually WAS on depression medication, and that is a fact... He had lots of.. help after he wrote this play:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html?link=rssfeed

For those curious...

The killer had the words "ismail ax" written in red ink on his arm, and his suicide note was signed the same way.

I'm a bit curious about what exactly that means... It could be anything from this disturbed child's alter ego, to a reference to the Koran...

Anyone have any ideas?

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/cmt-40/Nice/Dutch-MT/tools/EnglishTags

In that list, do ctrl f then type in ismail ax, and you'll find it. Means nothing, coincidence.

AX might have to do with Alpha Chi?

This was so sickening. People are fucking sick, that's all I can say about this. That and my brother goes to VT. He was walking to his dorm when one of the shootings happened. He's ok, though.

Is it just me, or do school shootings only ever happen in America?

Apparently there was one in Germany a few months back. But it was nothing serious...

Seriously though, when is America gunna change its gun laws? I haven't seen a single gun shop in my entire life in Britain, and we have no such school shootings. Something tells me a change in the availability of weapons would really tone done the loss from these incidents.

Anyway, a shout out too all those affected. Even one life lost is one too many.

America should not and never will change its gun laws. PERIOD.
Not only has it been proven throughout history, time and time again, that freedoms like this greatly reduce tyranical rule, or the chances thereof, but also it wouldn't make a difference.
If the public is revoked of the right to own guns, criminals will still get their hands on guns. All you'll be doing is taking away law-abiding citizens' ability to defend themselves.
It might reduce school shootings, but it won't change the overall gun-homicide rate. America is a very different country, everybody knows that.
And for the record, concealed weapons are illegal in the US unless you have a permt for it, which comes in few numbers.

Plus, there's the impending zombie invasion. We've got to gear up, people.

The only thing that's been proven is that you guys have more school shootings than the rest of the world combined.

If the public is revoked of the right to own guns, criminals will still get their hands on guns. All you'll be doing is taking away law-abiding citizens' ability to defend themselves.

No... The right to own guns turns much of the public into potential criminals and greatly increases the probability of so called 'accidents', thus increasing the gun-homicide rate. This korean guy wasn't part of a big mafia. He was just a 23 year-old student, who thanks to 'freedom' got hold of real weapons. At least that's the way I see it.
Maybe the right thing to do would be to allow people to wear kevlar vests or something...

You are allowed to wear Kevlar vests, but that would be pretty impractical.

I do believe if someone else in that school had a concealed weapon, that bastard shooter probably wouldn't have had the pleasure to shoot himself.

Plus, just because you outlaw guns doesn't mean they don't exist anymore...

I do understand what you are saying about America, and that there is less crimes to this magnitude in some of the European countries. You have to understand that America is a young country, and a vast one at that. America is the third largest country in the world, the average of our 50 states being larger than the UK. Our borders are VAST, and our resources in defending them are limited. Guns would still be smuggled in, and it is extremely difficult to enforce such an area, especially when our citizens are taught not to respect authority. We've only been around for a small fraction of the time your countries have, and honestly, I think we're doing pretty good for only being around for about 200 years. Banning guns might help in other countries, but based on the people, and the experience of this country, it would only be bad for America to do so.

our 18th Amendment, for example, banned all alcohol (drinkable). This only resulted in the mass organization of crime, and the emergence of gangsters and mob bosses such as the notorious Al Capone. In the south, people still created the alcohol, "white lighting" "Moonshine", and added insane adjustments to their automobiles to escape Cops. Eventually, for the mere fact that every basically just ignored the law, and because of the mass corruption it caused, another amendment was passed nullifying it.

If someone has set out and planned to do something evil, something as demented and disgusting as these shootings in Virginia, they will take it upon themselves to obtain the materials necessary, being a firearm.

I am still reminded of the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people".
or the satire "guns don't kill people, the government does".

Forgive me for the rant, but I am disgusted with this man's killing spree becoming a pro-GunControl and anti-videogame/music political ploy. Don't blame society, it was this man who did the act, this deranged sick young man.

Edit: Nice point of the 18th amendment, Bratty.
Do you guys hoestly think that if someone who is determined to kill someone will just turn around and go "oh well" if they aren't allowed to own a gun by law? There are so many ways to get a gun reguardless of whether its legal or not. And its easy too, its damn easy.
Also, fun facts of the United States:
-If someone purchases a gun there is a 7 day waiting period for the gun, assuming the gun was bought legally.
-Any kind of firearm is prohibited on any school or college property, with the exception of the police.
-Gun ownership laws vary from state to state. Many states don't allow you to own a gun if you are a convicted felon.

You don't seem to understand that if guns are taken away people won't stop being killed. Take away the right, people will get them illegally. Take away the guns and criminals will kill people with knives. Take away blades and criminals will stangle people to death. "But, oh, guns kill so much faster and efficiently than a knife or bare hands! Your arguement is stupid! Blah blah blah I'm going to whine and bitch about the United States because it sucks!" The United States is, and has been, the most powerful country in the world for over 200 years. We've been the turning tide in both world wars. We have the world's most powerful military. We have the world's most powerful, and stable, government system. We are the world's most important economic resource. And we are also one of the few countries that allows its citizens to bear firearms legally. The founding fathers knew what they were doing. The 2nd amendment, if it hasn't helped us, certainly has not hurt us as a country.
And its sad, it really is, when people abuse this right. Its especially disturbing when something like this happens and several people are killed(This was the worst killing rampage in out history by the way). But do you see the typical American running around in the streets or in a school shooting the place up? No. Most of you don't understand the importance of our 2nd amendment because you don't have it, so you have no first hand experience with it.
I also want to bring up the middle east. You think American school shootings are bad? Fuck, do I even need to go into the details of how violent the middle east is? A school schooting in the US is nothing compared to some of the things people have endured over there. And, yes, thanks to us at least Iraq is currently seeing a little stabilization.
I'll sum this up in 2 words: shit happens.
GG no re.

Yeah, you're right, you all need guns to protect yourselves from the British, your government, and Americans with guns.

Iraq is seeing a load of poorly-trained psychopaths under US pay murdering civillians. Lucky them. I have no respect for the US army, I must say.

guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Actually, guns in the hands of people kill people.
If those hands are irresponsible hands, you get killings. You can get weapons illegaly in Europe too, but a student would have very hard time getting one, I assure you.
A killer with a knife would have some difficulty killing 32 people on a university campus, I have no doubt of that either!
I think that law was made before proper security forces (police, FBI, army) were established as we know them today. In the civilized world, trained people are in charge of law enforcement through the use of firearms. Citizens are much more unpredictable in comparison, and you just shouldn't allow crazy Bob to own a rifle so easily because anything could happen.

I won't discuss the economic and military achievements of the US in the past century, because it has little to do with the topic.
However:

And, yes, thanks to us at least Iraq is currently seeing a little stabilization.

I'm sorry WCD, but that is so far from the truth! Saddam, as evil as he was, was acting as a knot, sort of speaking, which held together a number of different groups (mainly Sunni, Shiite and Kurds) which really hated each other long before. When the US took away Saddam, they broke the knot and unleashed a civil war. It's as simple as that. Iraqi people now live with more fear than they did with a dictator. So much for freedom.

delete - i obviously didnt read the whole article

ok the last posts were tl;dr.

but think of this.

you don't have a gun and a guy with a gun mugs/burglarizes you. You cooperate and you lose your cash but thats it. he'll leave you alone and run away.

now lets say you have a gun and a guy with a gun tries to mug/burglarize you. You try and blast him (at least 90% of people probably wouldn't even be able to pull the trigger due to mental blocks) but he shoots you first since hes got the gun out first.

so much for fucking up a situation and defending (aka injuring) yourself.

as to Jack Thompson.

I do believe if someone else in that school had a concealed weapon, that bastard shooter probably wouldn't have had the pleasure to shoot himself.

Most people don't have the guts to pull the trigger. But if they did, I think the damage qould have been much greater. Instead of a single bullet you'll have numerous one flying and whizzing simultaniously, many might not hit the criminal but others. Then with all the chaos people might mistake the criminal for another guy. Could easily happen.

You don't seem to understand that if guns are taken away people won't stop being killed.

Well I can't argue with that. Considering something like that already happened in the US. In the late 20th alcohole was banned. Soon organizations were borned and started smuggling it till it was relegalized.
Infact it gave birth to the mafia.

Though it's hard to say that you should ignore it. Not all the gunshot casualties are because of lunatics or criminals, some are accidents.
A few years ago a 4 years old shot his brother by mistake while playing with his father's gun.

So much for freedom.

I agree. This 'freedom' can bring much pain and harm if it's not wanted. Lets go back to germany, to the year 1919. The axis nations just lost
(well it's difficult to say someone won) and World War I ended. The US had this crazy dream to turn all the dictatorships to republics. Nations like Czech that was turned to Czechosolovakia, and most of you know that didn't last long till it turned to a dictatorship of the people.
The case was quite similar in germany. Not only that it lost it was also blamed for starting the whole war. Furthermore French sought everyway to weaken and humiliate Germany. This country was forced to be a republic against it's citizen's will so they apposed it and abhored the all idea.
The humiliation made them seek after revenge, and the Americans weakend the govorment by turning it to republic, that can be very unstable.
That was one of the reasons that caused World War II, and the death of 40 million earopeans. Though I don't blame them for that terrible war, I think the Americans should finally learn not to meddle in such affairs and understand that not everybody wants democracy, nor is it always the best solution, it can sometimes cause disasters.

Arcan, don't start with the pics, remember what happened in the last thread.

Haha..

..it begins!

You know, i didn't say we should outlaw them, just change them. Why did everyone think i meant outlaw? I do realise that having guns can have some usefulness you know.

Cho paid $571 for a 9 mm Glock 19 pistol just over a month ago, the owner of Roanoke Firearms told CNN Tuesday. He also used a .22-caliber Walther pistol in the attack, police said.

John Markell said Cho was very low-key when he purchased the Glock and 50 rounds of ammunition with a credit card in an "unremarkable" purchase.

Cho presented three forms of identification and did not say why he wanted the gun, Markell said.

Quoted from CNN.

I'm disgusted by how easy it is to just go and buy a gun in America. How can you defend those gun laws when it's obvious that anyone can get their hands on a firearm, no questions asked.

Incidents like this will continue to happen, and I guess it will only get worse.

Most Americans seem to care about their rights to kill each other more than their rights to fair and speedy trials and free speech.

A lot of people here in the UK don't understand the US Constitution and its Amendments; they seem to think that banning firearms helps stop the bad guys... Well you're wrong idiots. Since Guns have been banned here in the UK violent gun crime has gone up ten fold. I've actually been unfortunate to see a gang member get his head blown off right outside my front door - did gun control prevent this? - No.

Violent criminals and gang members will ALWAYS have access to firearms no matter how restricted their availability is. In fact, gun control actually helps violent criminals because it allows an entirely new underground black-market for sale of illegal firearms. (...And now 'illegal knives', according to the Government.) The same can be said for the so-called War on Drugs, and War on Terrorism etc.

How on earth can we, the law abiding citizens, protect ourselves if dangerous individuals pose a threat to our safety and the safety of others if we are unarmed yet the attackers are armed? How can we expect the police to turn up on time before all horror breaks lose? It's ridiculous. At Virginia Tech, the police were hardly going out of their way to take the gunman down - they were busy hiding behind trees while college students took it upon themselves to jump out windows.
As we know now, a brave Professor did actually take immediate action to subdue the gunman and protect everyone, but sadly his life was taken away.

There are indeed other recommended measures and precautions that may have helped subdue the killer, such as clouding the building with Fire Extinguisher dust so that the killer loses sight of persons around the area. 50 years ago, a crazed gunman like this would have been dealt with almost immediately by brave-enough individuals. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case as everyone is taught to back off, thus putting everyone's life in danger.

I've taken SSRI's myself (took Zoloft for 4-5 months) and they made me feel suicidal, dissociated (unable to percieve pain, or not feel attached to it), and violent, so think what someone with less control experiencing these feelings could be capable of? SSRI's (especially Paxil) are horrid things and don't deserve to be on the market.

I was given a similar (if not the same) medication myself, and found it to worsen my state. You are absolutely right about the dissociation, I found myself to drift along oblivious to my surroundings and other people, almost in a zombie like state. And yes, all the research now links these dreadful things with suicide. Doctors prescribe youngsters with these things like they are sweets these days, simply because of the obvious hormonal difficulties one faces at a young age. And surprise surprise, the killer may have took such forms of medication - the same M.O. over and over again.

they seem to think that banning firearms helps stop the bad guys

For the nth time, NO. Banning the purchase of firearms helps to stop normal people with serious problems from becoming bad guys, as well as stopping unfortunate accidents.

. 50 years ago, a crazed gunman like this would have been dealt with almost immediately by brave-enough individuals. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case as everyone is taught to back off, thus putting everyone's life in danger.

That makes no sense at all. Brave enough individuals shooting at the crazed gunman can cause other casualties because of crossfire. And just one question. IF you are allowed to have weapons in the US, how come none of those 32 people had a gun and shot back? Where was the effective right to protection you are all claiming?
The current laws prevent law-abiding citizens from taking their weapons into places like the university campus, while killers can still do so!
In short, the right to purchase a weapon only helped Cho Seung-Hui in this case. The unfolding of events prove all of you pro-gun people wrong! :

Edit: Let me extrapolate the case to another uni in another country. The victims would have been unarmed just as well, but Cho would not have been able to get spend his +500$ in a gunshop. That's the point I'm trying to make.

No, banning firearms will open up a new undeground black market where guns are easily sold to those with intent to cause harm - all without licence and regulation.

I'm afraid gun crime will never end - and being disarmed wont put these crazies off.

In that sense, you are right. They should have been banned many many years ago, just the way it happened in other countries.
Now that one out of three households in the U.S has a gun, it would be quite impossible to do.

You stupid fucking pro-gun toting Americans. How fucking retarded are you? Never mind the fact that your death toll as a result of a firearm is absolutely, mind-blowingly high. Never mind the fact that every other country who has outlawed the right to own and bear arms has considerably lower gun-related deaths than you.

You took too long to change your archaic ways, and now you're stuck. Retarded Government, retarded people. Here's to many more shootings, because you've all gotta be ready when the Queen of England marches in.

My apologies to those Americans who aren't asswipes.

You stupid fucking pro-gun toting Americans. How fucking retarded are you? Never mind the fact that your death toll as a result of a firearm is absolutely, mind-blowingly high. Never mind the fact that every other country who has outlawed the right to own and bear arms has considerably lower gun-related deaths than you.

You took too long to change your archaic, and now you're stuck. Retarded Government, retarded people. Here's to many more shootings, because you've all gotta be ready when the Queen of England marches in.

My apologies to those Americans who aren't asswipes.

Q.F.T.

It could be anything from this disturbed child's alter ego, to a reference to the Koran...

What the hell, the guy was Korean, why would he be referencing the Koran? Maybe it was a starcraft quote (oh lawd).

Do you guys hoestly think that if someone who is determined to kill someone will just turn around and go "oh well" if they aren't allowed to own a gun by law?

Ok, I think a lot of people are missing the entire point of gun control. It isn't to stop every criminal in the country from obtaining guns - as you said, anyone can get a gun if they're dedicated enough - it's about getting less guns on the street and in the hands of potentially dangerous people. No, gun control laws will not stop every murder in the country. But it will stop SOME. And that's enough of a reason to have them.

I know the right to bear arms was made so that the people could revolt against a tyrannical government - but face it, sooner or later the people will just have to trust their politicians - putting a gun in everyone's hand might help in stopping a dictator from taking over, but at what price? Homicide rates through the roof? No other country in the western world has these sort of freedoms, and believe it or not, democracy works anyway.

I also want to bring up the middle east. You think American school shootings are bad? Fuck, do I even need to go into the details of how violent the middle east is?

Well, first of all, the middle-east is basically one big shit-hole of dictatorships and fundamentalists... there's no point in comparing first-world countries to the countries in the ME. Much less trying to excuse the violence in the US by saying "the middle-east is worse".

And, yes, thanks to us at least Iraq is currently seeing a little stabilization.

Yeah, civil wars all over the place and terrorism through the roof. You guys rock. Maybe it's time to realize invading Iraq wasn't the right thing to do?