?HL2 Model Question? Created 13 years ago2010-11-26 19:37:49 UTC by kdunivan

I have been experimenting with propper and models and am a little confused with a few things. I do not wish to learn another program so don't suggest a real model program cause it ain't going to happen right now. Propper is nice for my needs but I think I am probably missing a few things.

Is it a good idea to make large complicated models with complicated collision models, i.e. large columns of stairs. And is it really good to make surface that you have to walk on into a model?

I have done a few models with propper and haven't had any problems. However, everytime I make something complicated it doesn't want to take it or I get engine errors when I go to compile, i.e. triangle errors. I never get this error and I assume it is model related cause the map works fine after I delete the prop.

I made a smaller section of the stair column to stack and it works just fine, with no compile problems. I don't mind stacking four models on top of one another but the whole point was to model the whole column to help the map compile better. Am I just wasting my time?

Should I just func_detail it and get over it?

It's really dependent upon how much detail you need. If constructing the column from brushes provides the detailing you need (especially considering the wonders a good texture can do for adding detail), then make it a func_detail and don't bother wasting time to create a model. If, however, the column needs detail that exceeds the services of CSG (IE, if it needs good rounding or detail that is smaller than 1 Hammer Unit by 1 Hammer Unit), the model would be the best route.

It's certainly worth pointing out that model geometry is cheaper to render than world geometry, and you'll suffer less of a performance overhead from turning world geometry into models. It's also worth pointing out that models take several times longer to produce than brushed shapes, and also don't illuminate as cleanly as world geometry does.

It would be worth it to look at how Valve deals with this issue. Just noclip around some of their maps and look at how some details are modeled and some are brushed. Just remember that turning geometry into func_details is your best friend when it comes to wrestling with compile times.

I hope this helps ya!

The func_detail really doesn't hurt the map....I was just trying to help the map out a little bit by modeling the somewhat complicated stairs. And no, the stairs aren't that complicated--no rounds. Most of my textures are set to .25 anyways and I always budget for this. I don't do the floors or ceiling this way most of the time but I really try to use the .25 detail.

Like I said, I made a short stack and it works fine. Just wanted to know if it was really worth all the trouble that I am putting into it. Guess not.

I was poking around the model viewer last night and noticed alot of complex models that render just fine.

Maybe I do need to learn a new program...lol

You are getting that problem with propper because it is using default settings on studiomdl. For stairs you will need to edit the .qc.

Check out the tutorial I made for detailing maps with XSI. I actually did the tutorial using steps as my example.

I did look at the tutorial before I posted. That is what prompted me to ask because your stairs seemed to work just fine. I really don't have that many more faces in my models but I didn't know about the default render. I have the .qc file itself but do not really understand it, mostly numbers and what looks like triangle counts.

Is there any way I can can fix this without XSI? I am using the func_detail and providing collision with a duplicate model with clip brushes that lays on top. The func_detail takes the collision out basically and the clips just add it back in. Should I just omit the collision and the func_detail and just leave the thing solid and let propper make the collisions without clip brushes? I think I got that all right.

I think I am going to stay with the func_detail in-game. I don't have any rounded surfaces so there is no real need to model it.

Thanks for the responses.

EDIT: my bad on the QC file. I was looking at something else. the actual is below or what is now the .qc file for the short stack. I don't think it's much different on the whole stack. what's wrong with the .qc?

$staticprop
$modelname "kdmodels/stair_column/stair_column"
$scale "1.000000"
$body "Body" "stair_column_ref"
$cdmaterials "models/kdmodels/stair_column"
$sequence idle "stair_column_ref"
$surfaceprop "concrete"
$autocenter
$collisionmodel "stair_column_phys" {

$concave
$automass

}

change to $collisionmodel "stair_column_phys" { $concave $maxconvexpieces 50 }

if 50 isnt enough use 100. it only uses how ever many there are, it just sets the max.

Do I need to replace this whole piece?

$collisionmodel "stair_column_phys" {
$concave
$automass
}

with

$collisionmodel "stair_column_phys" { $concave $maxconvexpieces 50 }

then what? lol. drag it from the source folder onto studio.mdl to re-compile? I used to do a few half life 1 models but it's been a minute.

yes and yes

I tried that and it compiled fine but still the same problem and it pretty much deleted the collision map. Maybe I am retarded but these are the errors. And these are from hammer not studio.mdl.

2.463800 -2.286000 0.000000
-3.225800 -4.318000 0.000000
2.463800 -9.804400 0.000000
2.463800 6.197600 0.000000
make_triangles:calc_triangle_representation: Cannot convert
-3.225800 -4.267200 0.000000
2.463800 -9.753600 0.000000
2.463800 6.197600 0.000000
2.463800 -6.299200 0.000000
make_triangles:calc_triangle_representation: Cannot convert
-3.225800 -4.267200 0.000000
2.463800 -9.753600 0.000000
2.463800 6.197600 0.000000
2.463800 -6.299200 0.000000
make_triangles:calc_triangle_representation: Cannot convert

I am not sure how proper works on the technical side. I have used it for a handful of simple props, but when I started having collision mesh problems, was when I moved onto a legit modeling program.

If you can use hammer, you can use a modeling program.

The difference is, do you have the marbles to learn a new program, or will you give up on it.

I gave up a couple times over the years, then finally learned XSI about 2 years ago. Its worth it. I can now make all the detail props, and repeating items I need with ease.

I do still use propper for things I need that dont need detail too.

Ultimately, I have to agree with you. It's a collision problem and it's what I suspected the whole time.

I have XSI and have used it a few times. I guess I will stick to the simple stuff for now until I get some real time to sit down with XSI and actually learn it. I will use your tutorial as a guide.

I do appreciate your help though.