Bad light faces with columns Created 9 years ago2015-01-15 12:14:56 UTC by Kaner

Info nodes does exist as entitys. How would the Engine otherwise be able to build nodegraphs at runtime?
Unnamed lights are also entitys, the actual world light information isn't stored in them in compiled maps tough. Rad processes the light values, but keep the entity.

Nodes are stripped out of the map when the nodegraph is built.
And unnamed lights are removed when they're baked into the lightmaps, because they don't need any logic in the engine to have them switch lightmap pages.

Just because something is internal to the compile tools doesn't mean it's not an entity. If Hammer treats it as one, and it affects the finished map in some way, it is one.

An entity is an entity that exists in-game.
Also, I think the light-entities are used for model lighting, for items, monsters and other stuff that uses models.

This isn't Goldsource, but Unreal does this;Lightmap samples are made on a grid for dynamic things such as models. I imagine Goldsource does something similar, since lightmapping isn't exactly a new thing, the only thing that's getting more advanced with it is the quality of the samples.

And here's how I think it all works. Made by freehand in GIMP like a pro.

This is the most pedantic non-conversation we've had in a while. Continue.

orange, is that a baby-suffocator in your avatar?

Orange's avatar reminds me of a brain-sucking amobea

I believe models are lit by the lighting of the brush directly beneath them. So no, nowt to do with the light entities.

Not sure what "how I think it all works" has to do with anything anyway, compared to how it actually works. That's, like, the anti-vaccination mindset, isn't it?

Well, the light entity still exist as an entity in-game, even if doesn't do a thing.
Also, my avatar is supposed to be a low resolution version of the official Portal 2 P-Body avatar.

Yeah its a game, but that is a tiny chance someone might take it seriously somewhere.

Like people freaking out over some children walking alone a mile to their school?

I think it's what people say: "shit happens".

This thread is

I think the thread author should use models for those columns.

Props and models are used in Source (and some Counter-Strike game, I think), this is about a GoldSrc error.

You can use models in GoldSrc as well.

Well, they aren't vertex lit in GoldSrc, becuase they only sample one ligt entry from the nearest light entity.

Do you have a point you'd like to add to that?

Not really. I'm only trying to say that model entities only recieve one light value from the nearest, existing light entity. That makes them have the same light value in the entire rendered model.

You can still use models in GoldSrc.

So, I notice you're bold-ing that part as though it's true. Or that I didn't already explain how models are lit. Y'know, when I said

I believe models are lit by the lighting of the brush directly beneath them. So no, nowt to do with the light entities.

or some shit exactly like that.

Since you, for whatever reason you may have, seem to have completely ignored that, I went out of my way by, in less than 5 minutes, creating a map to demonstrate.

Long story short, two levels, lights on the bottom one, player on the top. When standing up top:As soon as you step over the edge enough that your center is above the bottom level:And just to reinforce, I spaced it a tad and dropped similarly positioned scientists.The lights are in the center of the bottom level and therefore all objects shown are in direct line of sight of the lights. There is also a very low intensity light on the top level just in case the bollocks you're pushing about "nearest" was even slightly relevant.

tl;dr: The model lighting comes from the brushes, not the entities. Is that clear enough yet?

Of course, I'm not arguing against the fact that they've one lighting level across the whole model. I don't know why you even brought it up, anyone who has any experience with goldsource has seen that. Though I will say that that won't necessarily make it, if whoever the OP was did replace the brush columns with models, look bad, if they're made right. Certainly not worse than the brush ones seem to.

Allright, can somebody just please e-mail Valve themselves and aske them about the lighting model used in GoldSrc so we can get this over with?

Uh... somebody like yourself? Because Jessie just explained and proved it.

no we will never get over this! we are doomed for eternity!!!!!

can somebody just please e-mail Valve themselves and aske them about the lighting model used in GoldSrc so we can get this over with?

It's cute that people think Valve still care about GoldSource...

Could someone explain why he's in denial about this? It's a very simple concept. Was my explanation flawed in some way?

valve doesn't even really admit they made a game called half-life, though you sometimes hear about cs and team fortress, which they didn't make well nevemrind

If you create a huge room made by null textures, and put one single light somewhere in the middle, make it dim enough to NEVER be able to reach the walls, then no-clip to where the light is, you will still see the light on your viewmodel, and since there is no light in the brushes below... Go figure it out.

Exactly how I feel.

Despite that being one of the most situational examples I've ever heard, so much that it couldn't be relevant to anything, I humoured you and tried it.

And you're wrong.

I have nothing else to say about it, because there's nowt else to say.

Though I'll add that I also tried it with a very strong light. As the nature of null is that faces don't get rendered at all, and therefore there's no face to be lit, the viewmodel remains as dark as ever.

EDIT: Here's a holiday snap of me in a very well lit room with a null'd floor. Note the pitch black viewmodel.

then no-clip to where the light is, you will still see the light on your viewmodel

GoldSrc's lighting is all pre-baked onto faces, so doesn't that make this basically impossible right off the bat? I mean I already know it's wrong, that goes without saying ('specially after Jess' demonstration above), but isn't that just impossible because the entity isn't really just emitting light during runtime?

That is what the RAD portion of the compile process is for, after all.
If Goldsource actually did radiosity lighting real time, I would be really impressed, seeing as that would mean Valve had figured out a way to efficiently do in 1998 what we can't properly do at anywhere near an interactive frame rate today. Even the modern AAA engines that advertise radiosity aren't doing a true ray-traced lighting sim with multiple bounces (never mind that beautiful light bleed that VHLT added)

Enough is enough.
Dr. Orange, Jessie's explanation is not a guess or a theory. It is factual; that is how Goldsource handles model lighting. It is interpreted from the brushwork below the model. This is widely known, documented, understood and even now demonstrated.

I can't decide if you're trolling so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but this thread is definitely done.