How to push them r_speeds to the limit.. Created 19 years ago2004-12-14 00:34:53 UTC by SnArFbLaT

...just get me to map for you. In minutes, you'll have a map that's unquestionably too complex to compile! Want an even greater effect? Give me a realistic image to map by. I'll swear never to leave even the smallest detail unmapped. Once I'm finally done, you can sit back and enjoy the 1 trillion year compile process! Sounds fun, eh?

Well, I started mapping a replica of the globe theatre yesterday, expecting to finish with the complete deal... not a seating segment missed. Well, I've merely mapped the stage thus far, and the above stated has already taken place. I waited a good 15 minutes to see if the compile process would ever get past a certain point, no luck. I'm not surprised at all, I went into overwhelming detail mapping the stage, so much so that I'm actually proud of what I've done and wish to keep this map more than any I've actually successfully compiled. Here's an idea: Is the HL2 engine more tolerant to high detail? I can't imagine it not being. Mabey I should convert this into an HL2 map. Of course, that mean buying HL2, which I didn't plan on doing. Mabey I should reconsider for mapping purposes.

I'll have this map up for a gander in the problem maps section shortly. It's open to suggestions of any sort. The map is cs_globetheatre.

well, it has nice detail, but hardly enough to be non-compilable. let me guess, you're not using zoners to compile?

a few other things i noticed are that the only entities you have are some func_walls. you have no lights or player spawns. not that the lights would matter because the entire map is exposed to the void and would be fullbright anyway. but that wouldn't matter either cause, like i said, no player could spawn in it to see.

so let me ask you this... why are you trying to compile a map that you have no way of looking at? on top of all that i saw that you used the aaa texture on several world brushes.

fix all the stuff i mentioned, and try it again. if it doesn't work this time (using zoners), post your compile log.

well, it has nice detail

after taking a closer look at it, let me say it has very nice detail. i only took a quick look for obvious problems the first time. also, i bet it looks even better with something other than blank white textures on everything (the way it showed up in my hammer). id like to see it when its finished

Ok, first of all, I AM using ZHLT. That must not be the problem. Second of all (and I should have mentioned this in the map description), I had the lights, player spawn, and sky box all in there before I deleted them to make the screenshot. I should have specified that the person downloading the map needs to put those back in, and I will go back and change that. Uh, yeah, and I forgot to include a wad file. Kind of a premature posting, sorry bout that.

If your mapping abilities were as good as your boasting is totally blown over proportions, you'd know that the compile time hardly depends on how 'detailed' your map is.
When you make use of brush-entities, place hint brushes well, keep your map clean and know how to control the compile tools, your compiles usually run very quickly.
Your map may have some detail here and there (I haven't seen it with textures either), but they all are completely misplaced. No-one will walk through your map, 'Wow nice detail on that ceiling.' as this is a waste of r_speeds.
It is no problem to kill Half-Life with super highly detailed maps, but, as you probably found out yourself, it is totally stupid. Half-Life is several years old and the map format is not built to display thousands of polygons.
If you want detail, place it thoughtfully and use models rather than worldbrushes.

I didn't mean to sound like I was boasting. I seriously thought the map was too complex to compile, I wasn't just pointing out what fine detail it had. Of course, I've been proven wrong by Anonymous, who surely knows more about mapping than me. I don't know about the compile process, or much about r_speeds, I just map. That probably the source of my problem. On the other hand, I'm not going to listen to you tell me how to map. I like detail. I have admitted myself that this causes many r_speed problems, so you don't have to tell me. I'd like to point out that saying "No-one will walk through your map, 'Wow nice detail on that ceiling.' as this is a waste of r_speeds" is just flat out false. People who like good maps point out detail positively. They don't see it as a negative simply because it wastes r_speed. If they did, maps with all square rooms and rectangular halls would be getting 5 star ratings. These seem to be the ones getting crappy ratings. I've seen maps with beautiful detail, and they run very smoothly. I'm only trying to reach this level, or at least strive for it for god's sake. About using models, that's a worthy suggestion. If I could get myself around to learning to make models, I'd take this path, but mapping seems so much more practical.

Just remember that r_speeds represent what the engine is rendering, not just what you see while playing... Layout and VIS blocks take care of these problems, but of course there's nothing we can do about it in big rooms or open spaces. The HL engine just wasnt designed to handle that type of scenarios, unfortunately for all of us. So the best way to control r_speeds begins with being less ambitious in what we try to map... HL2 seems to handle much more detail and open areas, but loading times are horrible...

loading times are not a prob if in cs ;), and in half life you can tweak your system and hl into fixing the loading problem. also, textures are a big problem with loads. put it at medium if your at high and have bad loads, put it at low if your at medium... etc, etc...
Finally, and i'll put this to the point. detail makes the best mods, layout makes the best cs maps/dm maps (detail sold seperately)

Heh. Well, this map is designed specifically for show, not for gameplay. I just decided to use CS as a medium. Why I didn't choose HL, who knows...

I don't really understand what you mean by putting textures at medium/low or whatever. Besides that, I've been trying some stuff people have said, hasn't really worked yet, but I don't regret doing it.

It's a replica of the globe theatre. I'm trying to make it semi-accurate to the real globe, and I can't change where the details are placed in the real building. Call the details in the actual globe theatre misplaced, or say the globe isn't fit for mapping in the first place, say what you want, I know you'll find some arguement to resort to. But I'm done listening to it, because I disagree with hazardous's base opinion, and those little branches aren't doing anything. I overread nothing, hazardous just neglected to write the sentence in a way that would assure no misinterpretations. And Anonymous, if you don't want to look like one of those stupid noobs yourself, register.

I completely understand what you are trying to accomplish, Snarfblat. I myself have tried multiple attempts at replicating such horrible failures as:

1. Helm's deep, complete with the castle and 10000 itcthyosaurs.
2. The Dairy Queen where I used to work, down to the last condiment container.
3. My old high school, including openable lockers.
4. My house (which is possible in HL2)
5. Sea World...don't ask.
6. My hometown...fastest. crushed. dream. ever.
7. The U.S.S. Enterprise, with slight design deviations.
8. The tower of London (the entire thing).
9. The Cathedral of Chartres (my most recent flop) which takes about 35 minutes just to load the outer walls with no details added to them.

Notice a recurring trend? Big = disaster. Now, don't go getting discouraged (I'll leave that to Hammer). My suggestion is to make skillful use of custom textures (i.e, have a photograph of the area you can't afford to model on a brush JUST beyond a door at the edge of your level) and clever level changes so that you switch between levels in a way that seems natural. I call it Potemkin modelling (you'll have to research that if you want to truly understand its significance): you're making an area that looks out at another area that looks like its there except it's a "painting" (a texture), but you actually can walk there by going to the level change that takes you to your real version of it. Once there, you look back at where you came and see a "painting" version of it, again using textures. It's tricky, but you can break the Theatre into sections that way.

Got all that? I know it seems confusing, but in practice it works (although it does take a while). Happy mapping!

Keep on trying. I managed to map the Sydney Harbour Bridge and get it working (although I use the term 'working' rather loosely). You just need to incorporate as many shortcuts as humanly possible! Good luck!

Well, I don't want to continue this useless agruement as I have been, and take blame for, because the topic is now irrelavent. This map is going down to the recycle bin. Don't worry, it had nothing to do with anything that happened on the forums, I've just gotten so tired of this map that continuing it feels like torture. I swear, it had nothing to do with what anyone said. I just want to set straight that this topic is now dead.