Help with making buildings! Created 19 years ago2005-03-28 04:13:40 UTC by Rusted

Hey guys, this is my first post here. I'm new to mapping, so bear with me I'm trying to make a map with an urban setting set somewhere in the middle east. As you all know, an urban setting requires many buildings, and I dont really know a good way of making a building =

The main problem that I'm stuck on is making external windows and doors (not usable). I dont really know a good way of "adding" windows and doors to the buildings. So far, this is what I've been doing: I make a big cube (representing a building), then I make a little cube of a window's dimensions, then carve it in the big cube (one unit deep). Then I make the little cube half a unit and make it sit inside the carve and finally, I slap the window texture on it. But I realized this is not going to work, firstly because I'm gonna have 10+ buildings. Carving out all the sides of all these buildings is gonna be a load both on the processor as well as my brain. Besides, I dont wanna spend that much time working on buildings outside the map boundary which are just for decoration and immersion. Secondly, I tried it with one building and it didnt work! I'm getting crazy colored textures on top of the door/window textures when I run the game.

http://img34.exs.cx/img34/8361/2story33300019xl.jpg
(My map is set to fullbright, so dont worry about black hands )

Someone told me that I'm using the 'model' textures for my windows/doors, and thats the reason for the funky colors. Someone else suggested that I make models of windows/doors using SoftImage. But I have absolutely no knowledge about modelling, let alone making a window with SoftImage. Can someone guide me through this problem? The reason I said guide is because I'm relatively a noob when it comes to mapping, and this is my first map. I'd really really appreciate it

Ok, first things first:

1. Don't carve! The method that you're using (going only 1 unit in) splits the original brush up more, putting more strain on the engine. I'd either construct the hole manually, or create a brush for the window and place it one unit away from the building.

2. Unfortunately, there isn't any "easy" way to make loads of unique buildings. You can always just copy and paste buildings and change the textures a little, but it'd still look repetitive. I suppose you'll just have to construct them all individually.

3. The person that told you is correct: You've used a texture for a model in your map. You can usually tell them apart from the rest because they have the words "prop" or "model" in the names.

First step, don't carve ;<

Second, the easiest way to make buildings is going to be to make each brush individually, or with the clip tool, or to use textures with windows on them already. Carving will ruin your brushwork so it's advisable to not use it.

The color problem is indeed the 'model' textures. Models are cheap to render in Source because they use a cheap lighting method. (Vertex Lit, as opposed to Lightmapped.) The model textures are defined as VertexLitGeneric in their nfo files (vmts) and they won't be useable on something that's to be lightmapped (ie a brush.)

You can indeed make models for windows in Softimage (which is really crappy imo :p) or another Source-supported modelling program. (3DS max, my personal preference) or Maya, for example. I'd advise against learning modelling in the beginning, though, unless you're really interested in it, though, and save it for later on in your mapping.

If you have any more questions, catch me in IRC or on MSN.

I'd say modelling the windows would be a good idea, too. I'm a pretty experienced HL mapper who has never modelled, but I'm learning now for HL?. It's kinda a requirement really; you can't have proper physics objects, for example, which aren't models.

Oh, btw, Ant, there is a directory called 'props' with some textures in it that were leftover from the earlier days of HL2 that can be used on brushes. The real distinction is their base dir in the Material System is props/ and not models/props

Thanks for the advice. Since I want middle eastern flavor in my map, I thought of using the window/door textures from de_dust, and they really do fit the bill.

http://img228.exs.cx/img228/7626/winds2ad.jpg

I want those in my map! But they all get discolored if I use them on brushes Are there de_dust window/door textures in there that I can use on brushes?

I do want to use models because I hear they're not so hard on the processor, but I have no clue on how to make window/door models. Man, I'm so lost
P.S: Also how do people make those extremely tall skyscrapers?

Those 'model' textures are part of the de_dust prop set, which you can use on a prop_static entity. Images of them are here for reference out of the editor as they don't include thumbnail images:

http://rabidmonkey777.bluewolf72.com/imagery/prop_images

The tall skyscrapers are part of a 3D skybox, which uses a sky_camera entity to project an image of a 1/16th scale 'skyscraper' at the world's origin (0,0,0). The Source SDK docs have some more nfo on this, and I have an example map on one.

Ah. I'm guessing that these isn't a great deal of these?

Only a few. Perform a filter for 'props/' and you'll see what I mean.

So do you guys suggest that I make my windows and doors out of brushes (make a brush, turn it into a prop_static entity and slap the window/door texture on it), or learn how to model the windows/doors using SoftImage ? Take into consideration that my map is relatively huge (its 3890 x 4570), it will (hopefully) have 10-15 buildings with each side requiring 4-6 windows. Also I'm trying to make roads, pavements and streetlamps out of brushes (all resting on top of a ground brush)...this is all going to chug on my processor >.<

btw this is how my map looks so far..I'd say its about 20% complete, still a lot of buildings left to make, props etc.

http://img129.exs.cx/img129/8746/ip7qr.jpg

Can't really comment on it since it's heavily WIP

I suggest you use the prebuilt models for the time being.

Streetlamps should be models, too, use a prop_static and check the props_c17 folder. Anything relatively complex like that should be in model format, most things are already built.

Thanks for the heads up. Do you think I can bother you in AIM and assault you with my nooblar questions as I come across them ? I dont have msnmenssenger or IRC

Go ahead - I've got a bot mesh to compile for a while so I'll be hanging around with nothing to do.

Your very lucky Rusted, his a smart guy!

I'm gonna rule with this map, now that rabidmonkey777 is helping me!

Hey guys. I scratched my whole map and started from beginning
Now I made my building using brushes only (no carving) and fitted it with prop windows. All in all the building took 30 brushes to build, and its the simplest of buildings. I think it will take a little under 100 brushes to make more complicated ones (adding stairs is only gonna increase the brush count). I'm gonna have 10-15 of these buildings..Is my brush count high for such buildings?

A little, if they're simply decorative and don't serve any purpose other than being there. (ie if they're not within the playable area.)

oh they're in the playable area..I'm not sure about the buildings that are going to be in the non-playable area. Tried looking for building models from office, couldnt find none. BTW, I tried adding you in AIM but it says you're offline =
Thanks for helpin. Could'nt have gone this far w/o your help!

Oh, I'm online, I probably wasn't then though - I'll leave AIM on.

Office doesn't have any building models, most of the skybox stuff was done with brushes. There are some skybox models in props_buildings though.

Hey rabidmonkey777, can you get on AIM ? I got a few questions

Here's my question: I made a building out of brushes with its interior exposed (player can get in, climb to the roof etc), but it took many brushes to make and once I run it, the fps drops from 60 to 30 just by looking at it..the sound is delayed as well
The thing is, when I made this building out of carving (interior out of carving as well), there was absolutely no fps drop. In fact, I had 5 carved buildings (including the one with the exposed interior) and it worked fine..Now I got only one building and theres a fps drop...Any clues?

Run with +showbudget in the console and screenshot the graph, then post it here.

I took several pics where it was 60 fps then dropped to 30 fps. Here they are

http://img235.exs.cx/img235/6532/dejedwip00002iv.jpg
http://img53.exs.cx/img53/5641/dejedwip00038bi.jpg
http://img53.exs.cx/img53/3509/dejedwip00019hz.jpg
http://img53.exs.cx/img53/9207/dejedwip00044et.jpg
http://img53.exs.cx/img53/2459/dejedwip00028vr.jpg

Your swap buffers seem extremely high. Anything like the following?

Swap Buffers: This is typically caused by transparent textures/effects such as glass, env_steam, env_smoke, and of course, func_water. As long as it doesn't do it for a large section of your map, you will probably be ok. So if the swap buffers only go crazy when you stare RIGHT into an expensive water texture or some heatwave style env_steam, you probably don't have a problem... that's just what they do.

I dont have anything like that. The only thing thats sort of transparent is the func_illusionary that I used for balcony railings..Even then this was happening before I put the balcony railings in there places..I havent used anything env_xxxx so far

This can help give your desert town a more realistic skyline. Think of the buildings way in the back in canals in Halflife2... http://www.hl2world.com/wiki/index.php/3D_Skyboxes

This will give a decent explanation of the prop types, which are models.
http://www.valve-erc.com/srcsdk/Levels/prop_types.html

Thanks Rad. In the first link that you gave, the building models that he used, where are they in Hammer? Also, I'm trying to find the door models from Office, I cant find 'em =
Thanks for helpin'

http://www.hl2world.com/wiki/index.php/HL2-HL2DM_Model_List

This is a list of the models and their folder locations.

You might browse through that entire website. It has been no end of help for me and I know others on this site use it extensively.