Why do people get jealous of good maps? Created 18 years ago2006-02-11 18:26:39 UTC by Xyos212

What I mean is giving a great map here like 2 stars when it deserves 5. Ive seen this on some of peoples maps that are excellent, but somehow dont get 5 stars. Most people on this site are talented mappers, but its the people who make maps like cs_assault old (crappy source map) that ridicule good maps. It makes me sick to see untalented people post negative things about good mappers.
All I have to say to them is

End Rant communication...................

....

Lets make everyone think the same way! With no room for free thinking, there won't be personal preferences and we don't ever need to critize anything !!111onewoot

The approach I often take is: if I admire someone's mapping abilities, I value their comments much more. If someone says negative things about my maps while his own maps are, in my eyes, of far less quality, then I usually don't care much about those comments.

Besides that, this community isn't the most mature one around, neither the most skilled. But it's one of the few quite active HL mapping communities these days, so yeah.

It was worse before imo.

To judge something that is very good bad is wrong. People are entitled to free thought, but Im talking about ignorance, and under indulgence, and using common sense to see something is good, not putting down positive criticism.........You should read my post more carefully next time Zombieloffe and stop looking for instances to make yourself look just......

People can think and post whatever they want about maps. There are two types of criticism in maps. One is done from a technical point of view, such as comments on brushwork, performance, texture alignment, layout flow etc. The other type has a more personal nature, such as "I dont like the colour scheme of the map", "the map is too big to be playable", "this or that weapon is missing" etc. Both categories of comments are useful, although only the first is really objective. To put it simple, a map can be correct (few technical flaws) but is always improveable in other aspects (aesthetics, originality and innovation, intelligent use of the game engine features, etc)

The only thing anyone can add is their own personal opinion. Xyos: I read your post all the way through, believe me. Who are you to judge what is "good" and what is "bad"? I can think something you think is a masterpiece is a crappy bag of shit, it's just about personal preference.

WHat I meant in my post was people who are new to mapping judging someone elses map and giving it negative scores based on faulty beliefs. I dont judge people. I mean if people truely use common sense without their personal view and bias in the way that they can give an accurate score. (Assuming they are proficient in mapping) ZombieLoffe, you need to see through text and see the meaning behind the words I chose. Everything I retorted here against your post is said but in a different way. You are seeing things in words that are not there. A common misconception. You (like most people) cannot accept other opionions in a logical way. Either that, or your immature. One or the other, its the same none the less.........

What you said was "What I mean is giving a great map here like 2 stars when it deserves 5".
What does it matter who rates the map? Even if the person who commented on it has never touched hammer, that doesn't affect his ability to test a map and judge it based on his standards. There's no such thing as "common sense" when talking about what people think. Sure, a map might be technically perfect, but someone may still think it sucks.

About this;

ZombieLoffe, you need to see through text and see the meaning behind the words I chose. Everything I retorted here against your post is said but in a different way. You are seeing things in words that are not there. A common misconception. You (like most people) cannot accept other opionions in a logical way. Either that, or your immature.

Xyos212, you're the one posting lots of bullshit about stuff you think you know all about. You need to get the fuck off your high horse. You're either immature or stupid.

Its called philosophy......Wait im sorry, you probably dont know what that is..........It applies to everything, go learn something, cuz your boring me.......nice little sentence at the end too, real intuitive of you

Sure, a map might be technically perfect, but someone may still think it sucks.

Giving one's opinions some sort of foundation is a good thing to do. Saying a map sucks and offering no reason whatsoever always seems to sound ignorant. I think map comments should be there to: 1) motivate the mapper by knowing other people appreciate the maps or 2)give constructive criticism on how to fix technical aspects (usually for future maps)
Other type of comments should be irrelevant to the mapper.
For example: "I didnt like the map because I hate floating castles" gives no useful feedback to the author.
"The floating castle's walls need more structural detail" would be a better comment.

No argument there Kasperg, I wholeheartedly agree.

Xyos212: Nice comeback. You made a few spelling mistakes, might want to look into that.

None of this was about positive helping on maps. I just said that wrongful opinions on maps based on information that is false is wrong. ZombieLoffe, why do you pay close attention to spelling mistakes in a forum online? Research papers, job reports, etc you pay attention to spelling, not when you are arguing with some igonrant fool about a forum post. Well, this the last time I look at this thread. All I wanted was to post something of my opinion, not to be taken seriously, but seems that you took it in that direction. Unfortunate, but thats ok. Peoples opinions (no matter what) should be read carefully and considered. Reading it once and assuming I meant something that I didnt is foolish. Blocking peoples opinions and words leads to worse things...................Weel, if you want to annoy me more, then PM me :)_

Expect a PM anytime soon.

WHat I meant in my post was people who are new to mapping judging someone elses map and giving it negative scores based on faulty beliefs. I dont judge people.

Saying someones beliefs are faulty IS judging them.

JudgeDredd just rated one of my old maps 1 star because it was 'pointless and violent' HL is violent, and since when is entertainment pointless?. I dont know if JudgeDredd is a talented mapper or not but that seemed like a bit of a dumb thing to do due to his excuse :

HL is violent

But it's not about being violent. And it's not about mindless carnage.
"Omg look! in my map you can slice scientists! this rox0rs!"

since when is entertainment pointless?

What kind of enternainment? Maybe you are enternained by gibbing people, not me. Heck, I could as well make a large, empty box with only a button that lowers a platform and crushes a scientist. Then I would describe it this way:

SUPERFREAKY
omg this 1s tha coolest map evar made....... check it 0ut.........

And then I would rate it 5 stars right away.

Seriously Strider, I just expressed my opinion. I have the right for that.

And there was no point in commenting "fuck you" when yousaw my rating. It only proves that you are childish.

Now You have gone and fucked up its nice rating for no reason at all. Fuck you again.

"No reason"? It was bad map (I perceived it this way) and that's why I "fucked up" the "nice rating".

And I'm not JudgeDredd. I'm JudgeDeadd. Stop calling me that way.

Your a fucking dumbass, its a fun-styled map made soley for entertainment, i you can handle computer polygons dying in comical manners then simply fuck off. Many cartoons are funny for the same reasons - have you ever seen Ren and Stimpy or Itchy and Scratchy (Simpsons). Dont drag this shit down anymore you overserious twat, if saying fuck you to an idiot is childish then i can live with that, fuck you. Dont comment back, im ending this now.

Yes, yes. You're just proving your idiocy and primitivism. Shit fuck fuck shit, I'm Strider, fuck shit shit fuck.

Childish styled comebacks from some who obviously skipped his childhood, fuck you again, and once your done with that fuck a dog and fuck off. Im off to play with my toys, you know.. childish stuff.

No wonder

fuck you again, and once your done with that fuck a dog and fuck off.

My class is a gang of primitive animals

Among others, you.

All right, I can't take you guys anymore, this thread descended to hell mainly thanks to you. Bye now.

questioning my personal hygiene

I take it he doesnt shower?

Thanks to me or the obviously overdeveloped, sophisticated, bastard that is JudgeDreadd.

Simple solution: Post your own map and let the rest of us judge it as you would...

I think hes some nerdy social reject who thinks hes better than everyone else.

The whole CS players community got an incredible problem with critique and demanding, just take a look on the ratings from this page to get it :

http://www.cstrike-planet.com/maps/cstrike

and I am not talking about fpsbanana.com maps : the more they are pure crap and the more they are downloaded...

Fuck the CS community, they are all retards...

But I think the very first problem with CS is all those irresponsible admins : web admins who accept any maps on their database, just to grow up their stats and make "look at my site, it got the most maps!", and game server admins, who upload hundreds of maps, just to act like "look at my server, it got the most maps, lot of fun here!!". Fuck'en all come on...

just an example of this shit, take a look at this team forum topic:

http://www.team-arsenal.com/index.php?file=Forum&page=viewtopic&forum_id=4&thread_id=223

it's in french, then I translate for you:

"1877 MAPS PACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes you are not dreaming !!!!! 1877 maps have been joined together into this pack !!!!!

Amongst them :

[endless list of shitty maps (36 times the word "dust" inside)]

The pack is 2,2 Gb !!!!! And once unzipped, it takes 5,59 Gb !!!!!!!!!!!!

Crazy stuff, the biggest ever on internet !!!!

All hop on the ftp, it's ultra fast in addition !!!!!!!!"

6 posts later, the same guy:

"Guys that piss me off, I post links and nobody download! Even the teammates....

It's useless, I add more maps that way we only play dust2....."

Hold on, the worst didn't come yet:

I join the conversation, and just reply:

"what the point into downloading 5 Gb of maps if at least three quarters of them are crappy?

I spent six monthes on de_raid, and you removed it from your server, while it had much better stats than shits like "scoutzknivez" and "iceworld" so..."

his reply:

"the problem with new maps is that everybody leave the server when it runs" ...

Strider: If you can't take negative comments about your maps, get off the Mapvault, cause you are going to get them. Seriously.
Whining about someone "fucking up your score" is like saying "your personal opinion is wrong, I'm right". Just give up.
I'm behind JudgeDeadd on this.

Who cares? Leave the CS community to rot for itself, it'll get whiped out by german cheaters sooner or later anyway.

Besides, the CS players are fully entitled to their opinion. There are no "right" and "wrong" maps.

Strider, come on, if you can't take a bad comment on one of your maps I wonder how much of a social life you got.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 'nuff said.

About CS maps, that's what the players like to play so give it them. Otherwise, don't map for them but for another public - or purpose. Basically you want a map to be found good by others (and granted, that's what we all like, right?) who just don't like your kind of maps. Are we pushing it into their face, are we going to whine about their 'wrong mindset' or are we going to take it to heart and either pick another market or change according to their demands?

// Not that I like those kind of maps, so I'd pick another market. My mapping purpose basically is to create something that's fun to play for a select group of friends/community people, so I don't care about those CS players with their different point of view on maps.

Oh, and we're all way too much upset about numbers and soulless ratings. They don't say nothing, just for that single reason called opinion.

My 2 cents.

I think Xyos is talking about people giving negative subjective opinions on maps that are objectively good, or at least correct. A map can be well made, yet you might not like it for many reasons. There?s a difference between saying you dont like something and saying that something is crap just because you dont like it. People who do the second are the ones whose opinions are usually ignored in life. You can say whatever you want. If it makes sense, so much the better.

Fuck the CS community, they are all retards...

But I think the very first problem with CS is all those irresponsible admins : web admins who accept any maps on their database, just to grow up their stats and make "look at my site, it got the most maps!", and game server admins, who upload hundreds of maps, just to act like "look at my server, it got the most maps, lot of fun here!!". Fuck'en all come on...

J.C; I am in the CS community, are you calling me a retard? Seems to me to be a very generalised and un informed statement. A lot of the sensible CS players dont post or simply avoid those types of forums all together because they are, granted, full of "noobs" or "tards" or in experianced players who just want to shout their opinion and dont care what anyone else thinks.

Whats more, of course admins are going to add maps to their vault. If I were running the site I would add every map that came knocking, even if it was a kill box with no point or nice mapping, SOMONE will want to play that type of map so you have to account for every taste (or try to at least). Notice in the second map ZL posted, 5 stars and 4500 downloads, its a kill box, yes. But clearly a lot of people WANTED to play that map. If we were to rate that map (or at least I were to) I would be rather criteque about the size, detail, longjevity (sp?) of the game play. But clearly, a lot of people DID like the map, even if it wasnt all pretty and flashing.

Captain P: My opinion nearly exactly.

Why are the rest of you arguing? Flaming each other for no reason. Seems stupid to me and on any other day I would simply close this thread and leave it to be locked. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, if they are young and foolish and possibly angry they of course they are going to say stuff like "omg this map suxz0rs, u suxz0rs, go die wit u map noob!". You cant complain because people are saying stuff like this, even if its barley ledgable for all you know it might well be their honest opinion. As CP said, you take the good (Well constructed, pointful and objective) critisism, bask in the compliments, and ignore the rest.

People are always going to be called each other names and getting at each other by assaulting their work or saying "its shit" and rating it. I remember the first map I ever posted in the vault, some guy voted 0 stars 50 times for no reason. What did I do? Did I go up in arms and start flaming (exactly what they are looking for)? No. I deleted the entry, and re submitted it. If he / she had done it again, I would of just left it.

If I were a Mod or admin I might give some of you a slap on the wrist for flaming each other needlessly, or on the other hand I could leave this as it is (unless it got into even bigger flaming) and then just lock the topic. "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has them and they all stink". That saying is for the larger part very true, there will always be somone who doesnt like you or your style or the way you map and will tell you that, be it constructivly or just by insulting you. Live with it.

Its no so much about my bad score, its beacuse Dreadd gave shit reasons to give it 1 star, which is perfect for this thread, i dont expect you to back me ZL only a madman would.

Even worse was the fact he started calling me childish and primitive (?!?) because i told him to fuck off because his reasons were not valid. All this talk about how mapping experience gives comments more credibility when he himself has not released a single map - he's an arsehole, he should fuck off with that attitude. As some of you have said, that type of behaviour is wrong.

Maybe so, thats your opinion. But calling names will only fuel the fire.

As I said earlier, if you think somones comments are unfounded, ignore them.

J.C; I am in the CS community, are you calling me a retard? Seems to me to be a very generalised

Sure it is lol

and un informed statement.

Not it isn't : I am studying this community for one year now (playing CS for three ones), and I exactly know what I am talking about.

Notice in the second map ZL posted, 5 stars and 4500 downloads, its a kill box, yes. But clearly a lot of people WANTED to play that map. If we were to rate that map (or at least I were to) I would be rather criteque about the size, detail, longjevity (sp?) of the game play. But clearly, a lot of people DID like the map, even if it wasnt all pretty and flashing.

That is where you are totally wrong, and the typical kind of reasoning that makes this community going bad, and people on forums endlessly discuss about killboxes vs "true maps".

CS has been created by people who are sick of Quake (then quakers), then there isn't anything worse they want that (mindless) Quakers to infest their games, and such "maps" are the most efficient way to attract all (nubs) quakers around : If (websites and game servers) admins were a bit more responsible, CS would still be a nice community, where only the teamplay and competition matters, and not to endlessly have to deal with endless waves of nubs who are ruining ==> EVERYTHING <== around them.

If you support killbox, yes I definitely consider you as a retard : it's not because some stupid, talentless and lazy kids consider such "maps" worthy playing they worth exist : nubs don't have to rule CS, they just have to stfu and learn ...

About CS maps, that's what the players like to play so give it them. Otherwise, don't map for them but for another public

I disagree :

_mapping for anything else that players is pointless to me.
_mapping for people who are only requesting shit is pointless to me.

Again J.C this is all your opinion. Yes I agree, CS is to stop "quakers" who just mindlessly kill in level and no I dont support Kill Boxes. None the less a lot of people downloaded this map, its good to play non quake games like CSS but somtimes you need a break, levels like this are a perfect way to "blow steam" if you have been playing serious CSS clan matches for 3 hours in a row a little "lol killbox" is appreciated. There is no one perfect form of gaming, you have to vary your experiance to really 'enjoy' yourself.

Or at least, I do. I cant play clan matches all the time I play CSS, some times I join a server on CSS purley to try and run around knifing people or to try and make them waste all their ammo shooting at me as I run around. It rarely ever works but its a good break from buying an M4 / Sig commando and pwning them.

Not it isn't : I am studying this community for one year now (playing CS for three ones), and I exactly know what I am talking about.

• I rest my case. And no I am not talking about your spelling or grammer.

I am sorry about my english, I know I still need to learn and improve it, but just notice me that won't help me that much you know ...

I agree with you about have a break etc, I agree that such maps can exist, but the point is that actually they are infesting CS, they lead it, and I consider the balance between "reality" and "anything" broken...

If players got enough stress with matches, playing on real maps, playing with strategy, teamplay etc, and they need a break, why don't they "simply" switch on another game, like, simply, on HLDM, or Quake 3, or shut down their comps and have a walk in the park? Or go to work or whatever? It's amazing how people actually look like to not be able anymore to unstick from their comps, and, more scaring, cannot unstick from CS...

I consider CS as a game, with given game rules, gameplay etc, and "maps" like fy/aim/etc are just fakes, and off-topic maps, that should just be removed from the game. Mappers have to follow these rules or look for another game that fit better with what they would like to map...

What if for example I suggest that your favorite TV sport team plays now with tomatoes instead of normal sport balls, just because I consider this is fun? That would ruin the whole sport experience right? This is the same case with CS : non-CS maps are killing it...

I hope everyone can take a step back and look at the whole thing in proper perspective.

CS and HL are just games. The objective of these games is to have fun.

If some players find some extremely simple and visually lacking maps fun to play, then more power to them.

If someone finds drinking horse urine fun, so be it. Let them do it, as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

True, I don't like these "n00b" maps, but that's just me. If someone else finds them to be a great source of entertainment, what's wrong with that?

But it doesn't stop me from laughing at them though. I have a right to express how I feel too.

CS and HL are just games. The objective of these games is to have fun.

If some players find some extremely simple and visually lacking maps fun to play, then more power to them.

If someone finds drinking horse urine fun, so be it. Let them do it, as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

True, I don't like these "n00b" maps, but that's just me. If someone else finds them to be a great source of entertainment, what's wrong with that?

Couldnt of put it better myself.

J.C I WASNT reffering to your english. I was pointing out that you had only been in the community for 1 year and only been playing CS for 3.

Noob maps dont LEAD CS, the Authentic CS maps lead it. When a new CSS map gets released through Steam, every other server is playing it 24/7 for at least a week. Though I agree the "noob" maps spoil the whole game, isnt that kinda the point of playing them? And even if you removed all noob maps from CSS and erased them from existence, within a week somone else would have relesed a new one because thats what a lot of people want. As Satchmo said, if they want to play the noob maps, let them. Its not our right nor privilage to judge them for what they do with their time.

Believe me or not, sometimes, when I want to have a break, play CS for half an hour, I got a server list like this one :

coolguys [megaroxors.com]....12/24...de_dust2
daultimatekillers -=[pwn]=-....08/16.....de_dust
anotherteamserver [yeah].....15/18.....de_dust2
fun maps only !!!..................9/16.....fy_poolday
ohyeahbabyletsdoitcomeon..28/32...de_dust
dust only server 24/7...........18/18.....de_dust2
true soldiers of bloody war.....3/12.....awp_map
pwn pwn pwn!!!................13/16.....de_dust2
unknown server................24/32.....de_dust2
CS 1.6 game server............1/24......de_storm
fun a cool server fun............7/18.....as_oilrig
dust only server..............19/24...de_westwood
letshavefuntogether.......9/10....de_dust
house of fraggers..........13/18....fy_iceworld

man, where are the true players?? They all look like bots!!

A year ago, I didn't care that much about crappy maps, they were already way overrated, but there were still some good servers to join, so that was ok, but nowadays my whole server list is totally infested of "dust only" and "fun maps" servers!!

please, plzzzzz, I want real maps, real players, please give me back CS, I don't want to turn into a mindless braindead bot! I already had my Quake time, now it's ok, I don't want to play it again, plzzzz gimme back CS!!

... Dude, the filter button is there for a reason.

You do bring up one point though. I FUCKING HATE BOTS. WHY do people add them? There so easy to kill! Sometimes you'll join a server, and all 8 of the slots that are full other than yours are bots. These peolpe just leave bots to play on their server! WTF! Having 1 bot per side is barley acceptable in my book. If a server is filled with bots its not worth playing, bots are just fodder for the better players. Its funny when you see noobs talking in a server and there saying "Omg these new bots are really hard!" I laugh my ass off. Bots are the most annoying thing in CSS IMO allong with the auto noobs and the AWM. Infact I think I might send a mail to the Steam Center and ask if they can put a "number of bots on server" list in the server directory. I get really hacked off when I spend time looking for a good server only to find 3 servers in a row with purley bots playing. [/rant]

Anyway... use the filter button J.C

You didn't get it: what I mean is sometimes there aren't anymore any good servers to join.

And:
_I am talking about CS 1.6,
_I am talking about players who act like bots, not AI players, I am talking about guys who:

_never talk, and type any message, or just sometimes, in the best cases, "fun", "/stats", "/rank", "vote d2 all" etc...
_endlessly buy the same weapon, rush the same path, throw the same grenade to the same point, kill the same guy and especially be killed the same way (by me, waiting for them somewhere), I am talking about guys who obviously cannot learn, have no imagination, no life, nothing but to buy ak and to do 1-3 frags before to die...

Man, that's scaring, what I mean is some people looks like to be more stupid, more cold, more... dead than the computers they're using...

Readed the last few post and J.C., you seem to have a problem.

First off, shut up, if poeple enjoy maps like iceworld then let them! Yes, it's pure deathmatch, but do you see hldm with ak's? No!
They like the weapons and the fact you have to kill a lot to get a lot of money.

These kind of fy/aim/kz (or whatever) maps are all about gameplay.
Seriously, the standerd cs player doesn't give a fuck about visuall(spelling?) effects, they care about the god damn action.
If they did care, they would have been playing better games then ugly old cs.

Now you say cs shouldn't be brainless entertaining?
OW CMON! Don't talk pish, all you gotta do is walking to the bombspot the same road every time, even with tactics, you keep repeating the same thing. Besides, cs is still a game. Games are brainless entertaining.

About the fact players buy the same gun over and over again (ak/colt/awp) is because these weapons are the strongest, they wanna win. Why do you think poeple camp... to get the best score of course!
They typ stats, ranks etc to see if they are on top.
The @ noob mode things behind there names are excuses for being a bad player.
Poeple that aren't talking either didn't found the 'talk' button or they just have there focus on the game on the get the best score.

About constant dust/dust2/aztec.. these maps have a easy lay-out and you're in combat in no time. The players just wanna shoot to survive.

ok,in conclusion thanks muzz for not having a ** server,like every CS server is.

J.C: Ahhhh though you ment CSS.

Easy way to fix the problem: Buy HL2 and / or play CSS.