America the Armed Created 18 years ago2006-04-19 12:15:46 UTC by satchmo satchmo

Created 18 years ago2006-04-19 12:15:46 UTC by satchmo satchmo

Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 12:15:46 UTC Post #175175
LA Times again...
User posted image


Upland Home Hid Cache of Guns
Nearly 900 weapons are discovered when police, seeking firearms used in shootings, raid home of a retired Army officer.
By Lance Pugmire
Times Staff Writer

April 19, 2006

Authorities announced Tuesday that they discovered nearly 900 firearms hidden in secret panels, under floors and behind walls in an upscale home in the foothills of Upland.

A team of federal, state and local police raided the house Friday as part of an investigation into a man accused of wounding his wife and a Glendora police officer during shooting incidents in February and last month.

Inside the home, authorities found assault weapons, submachine guns, automatic rifles, explosive devices and other weapons, said Shirley Lesslak, a Department of Justice special agent supervisor.

A wine cellar had been converted into a makeshift weapons storage area and shooting range, Lesslak said.

Authorities arrested the homeowner, Robert Ferro, 61, a retired Army Special Forces officer, accusing him of running a huge black-market gun business out of the home at the end of cul-de-sac.

The San Bernardino County district attorney filed eight felony counts against Ferro on Monday, including possession of a firearm by a felon, possession of a destructive device, possession of a silencer and possession of a deadly weapon.

In the early 1990s, Ferro made headlines after he was accused of running a paramilitary camp on a Pomona chicken ranch that was dedicated to the overthrow of Cuban leader Fidel Castro. At the ranch, authorities found 5 pounds of C-4, a putty-like explosive. He was convicted of possession of illegal explosives in 1992 and sentenced to two years in prison.

Detectives said they were stunned when they entered Ferro's house and came across the wide array of guns.

"We went there looking for two guns," said Det. Joe Rodriguez of the Glendora Police Department. "We didn't expect to find more than 800. It was quite out of anyone's grasp. We are still trying to comprehend it."

Rodriguez said he and his colleagues uncovered weapons wherever they looked ? behind framed paintings, thermometers and mirrors, inside hollowed-out walls of closets and under the staircase.

Detectives gave two taps to a bookcase and it opened up to reveal more weapons, Rodriguez said.

They said they found some of the most powerful firearms ? Uzis and AK-47s ? in the master bathroom and bedroom, behind clothing and plywood.

"The majority of the guns had fully loaded magazines," Rodriguez said, adding that the makeshift shooting range in the basement appeared to have been used recently.

Authorities believe those who used the range attached silencers to their weapons to avoid tipping off neighbors.

Residents on Tapia Way described Ferro as a friendly neighbor who had several children and who had lived on the street at least 16 years. They said they had no idea that hundreds of guns were hidden throughout his house.

"He seemed to be a normal family man," said Douglas Null, a neighbor about four houses away. "Nothing ever goes on around here. It's very surprising."

Neighbor Bill Applebee, 69, said Ferro helped him fix a plumbing problem at his home and that Ferro's wife routinely drives their son and Applebee's granddaughter to Upland High School.

Ferro's large white stucco home has a U.S. flag hanging from its eaves and seven cars, including a Rolls-Royce, parked outside, one with an Army Special Forces license plate frame. Applebee said Ferro told him he had served in Vietnam.

In the early 1990s, Ferro, a Cuban immigrant, became something of a cause c?l?bre after his arrest. Prosecutors accused him of using the explosives to train Mexicans to overthrow Castro. His attorney denied that Ferro did anything wrong and said his client was a patriot with a distinguished military career, including volunteering for Operation Skyhook, a private effort to rescue missing servicemen believed held in Vietnam.

Neither Ferro, who was being held at San Bernardino County Jail on $5-million bail, nor his attorney could be reached for comment Tuesday.

Will Telish, an assistant special agent with the Department of Justice's Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement, said authorities believed Ferro sold the guns, other weapons and equipment at local swap meets and at an "appointment-only" antiques shop he owns in Upland.

"Lots of these [purchases] were done by word of mouth on the street, like how narcotics are trafficked," Telish said.

"You sell them on the black market ? like selling purses out a trunk," Rodriguez said.

Authorities began investigating Ferro because of his association with Frank Fidel Beltran, who was arrested on suspicion of shooting a police officer who was responding to a domestic disturbance at Beltran's Glendora home Feb. 10. The officer suffered a wound to the hand.

Beltran, who evaded capture for nearly a month, also is accused of shooting his wife eight times a few weeks later. That shooting occurred on a San Dimas street, where he apparently had been following her car.

"She noticed him and tried to get away," Los Angeles County sheriff's spokesman Sgt. David Vega said. "He chased her down after she crashed into a curb and started blasting her."

Beltran fired 20 shots and fled, police say. His wife remains hospitalized.

Beltran, 36, was arrested a few days later at a home in Rancho Cucamonga owned by Ferro. It is unclear why Beltran was at the home. Authorities believe Ferro provided Beltran with his weapons, Telish said.

Telish said authorities were conducting tests to establish whether any of the guns at the Ferro home matched those used in the shootings Beltran is accused of.
satchmo satchmo“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett”
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 13:32:19 UTC Post #175200
The important thing is that his right to carry around a lethal weapon to threaten people MUST NOT BE INFRINGED UPON. As long as it's suitably taxed and whatnot.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 13:54:39 UTC Post #175208
In another thread, someone said that criminals would be able to get a gun even if they were forbidden, so it was better if everyone had a firearm to defend themselves from these criminals.
This isn't entirely true. Criminals carry more guns with them if they know the place they will be attacking is also full of firearms. To give you an example, someone in a country where weapons are restricted could rob a shop just by threatening with a pocket knife.
If the issue was really "the right to defend myself", then we would be talking about taser guns, stun guns or pepper spray instead of bullets, right?
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 13:55:13 UTC Post #175209
reminds me of bowling for columbine...open a bank acount and you get a free rifle! But wow 800-900 guns in ONE home? that is insane!
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 14:00:23 UTC Post #175212
BUT IM ONLY EXERCISING MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 14:56:05 UTC Post #175229
I dont think anything with a higher caliber then .45 belongs to that.

Atleast he had a hobby :) .
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:02:25 UTC Post #175236
But he uses the AK for hunting. And if those damn deer wear body kevlar, he still has the armour-piercing bullets for them.
satchmo satchmo“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett”
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:04:01 UTC Post #175238
Geez. Maybe the holodeck accidentally replicated the guns too much, and somehow the particles went past the holo-deck and came into real life. It was all because Jordi asked for a program capable of defeating Data!
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:05:45 UTC Post #175240
those kind of firearms are illegal. the 2nd amendment really just says that if you go thought a shit load of paper work you can own a hand gun.

criminals just get them from the black market without the paper work and background checks and for a lot less money.

and it was me who said that. its a good bumpersticket.

"if guns are outlawd only outlaws will have guns."

and its true
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:07:51 UTC Post #175242
That's why it's so much healthier to play Counter-Strike than buying those real guns.

This way, we can all legally shoot guns and collect guns without worrying about accidentally shooting our loved ones or ourselves.
satchmo satchmo“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett”
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:15:21 UTC Post #175250
The ak aint body piercing with kevlar. kevlar will just stop the bullet nicely.

Only the .50 cal weapons and the FN P-90 have body piercing bullets that actualy go through Kevlar. I geuss the Five-seveN doesnt have the same effect, though it does share bullets with the p-90
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:24:55 UTC Post #175262
I never though I'd say this, but I agree with Gargie. :P I mean the article says that he's running a black-market business, which would imply that it's illegal/not constitutional.

Kasperg, I don't understand how a country where you can be reasonably threatened by a pocketknife is a better country to live in. Either way it'd lead to weapon escalation, people would carry bigger weapons than the last guy as to not be threatened by them.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:26:25 UTC Post #175265
Hey, as soon as people can legaly hold a weapon here then i geuss its time to start up the pocket-size WMD's production line :) .
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:50:36 UTC Post #175285
Kasperg, I don't understand how a country where you can be reasonably threatened by a pocketknife is a better country to live in. Either way it'd lead to weapon escalation, people would carry bigger weapons than the last guy as to not be threatened by them.
Yeah... unlike... having everyone carry a gun? :|
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:51:58 UTC Post #175287
You need a permit to carry a gun around in public, oh so surprisingly. My brother wasn't carrying around any weapon last night and he still got beaten and robbed. :
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 15:55:59 UTC Post #175290
Nasty.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 16:15:19 UTC Post #175306
In a country where guns are outlawed, there is no weapon escalation, that was my point. I think a place where you can be threatened with a pocket knife is better than a place where you can be threatened by a firearm, no doubt about it.
I'm sure a dying person with a bullet in his chest doesn't really care if his attacker has a permit or not.
If owning a firearm isn't that hard and most people can have one, it is no longer a means of dissuasion. It's like thinking that someone won't punch you because you also have fists.
My main concern reading all these comments is that people have actually come to think that having a gun is as natural as having a car. It's scary knowing there are places where you need a weapon to "feel safe"
Next thing will be tripmines in our front yards and ground to air missiles in our backyards, just so we can "defend ourselves" from intruders.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 16:18:12 UTC Post #175307
"if guns are outlawd only outlaws will have guns."
"Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat"
"God, Guns and Guts set America Free; For God's sake lets keep all three."
"My Family Was Not Murdered Because I Was Armed"
"12 Million Women Own Guns - They Protect Their Kids"
"Rapists Love Women Who Hate Guns"
"Self-Control Not Gun Control"
"I Support A Woman's Right To Choose 911 Or 9 mm"

and my personal favourite
"Guns Save Lives"
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 18:19:49 UTC Post #175348
Heh, it may be illegal to carry around a gun in public without a permit, but you can carry a bow anywhere. I intend to do that for a week or two someday.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 18:23:04 UTC Post #175352
its illegal to carry a bow here. crossbows especially.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 18:29:40 UTC Post #175354
Most gun owners' victim end up being themselves or their family members.

A cop shot himself last month in LA accidentally. He died of his wound.
satchmo satchmo“Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett”
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 20:49:07 UTC Post #175384
Just to clarify, for all of you who aren't American. High calibur and fully automatic weapons aren't part of our right to carry a gun, they are still illegal.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-19 23:57:40 UTC Post #175407
pft, high cal is fine.

but everything else is a real pain to get through normal channels.

automatic weapons
silencers
high capacity mags
assault rifles
those awesome teflon holowpoints that were designed to be used on planes

all of it requires a huge amount of papper work or is just out right illegal. which garentee's that if you get it properly and do anything wrong with it you'll have a swat team at your house within a half-hour.

every big shooting in the usa is generally done with guns obtained completely illegaly. these are unregistered guns going to anyone who has the connections/money, no background checks or permits required.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:02:45 UTC Post #175411
Actually, Satchmo, the AK is about the most popular for hunting deer in missouri. These just aren't automatische.

It's easy for brits to criticise us for allowing citizens to have guns, but it's because of them that we needed the 2nd amendment to begin with. Plus, you'll notice that we won.

I love target practice.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:06:40 UTC Post #175414
The Vice President of America shot a man in the face, is that not proof enough that American's don't deserve to carry weapons! :quizzical: :lol:
Strider StriderTuned to a dead channel.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:16:22 UTC Post #175416
Cheny is just a fucking dumbass.

and the guys he shot is even stupider.

when your duck hunting, you generally don't stand in the area there about to flush for birds.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:22:21 UTC Post #175417
:D I think we all know that by now. But accidents DO happen, and accidents DO tend to be a little more dangerous when weapon's are involved. Moral? Don't carry weapons. Simple. :glad:
Strider StriderTuned to a dead channel.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:22:55 UTC Post #175418
true that Garg. Those two are pretty stupid. Our vice president does not represent us in THAT way...
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:31:23 UTC Post #175420
our current administation shouldn't represent us at all, albiet its puppet representation.

It just makes the US look worse.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:39:06 UTC Post #175423
Yeah, I think either of the candidates this last time would've screwed everything up anyway... meh.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 00:44:34 UTC Post #175425
their have been no good canidates over the last 6 years.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 01:48:09 UTC Post #175435
Hes my new role model. :heart:
Luke LukeLuke
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 02:42:27 UTC Post #175440
It's easy for brits to criticise us for allowing citizens to have guns, but it's because of them that we needed the 2nd amendment to begin with. Plus, you'll notice that we won.

its also because of us brits that iraq exists, you should really blame us for that too
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 03:08:41 UTC Post #175448
I geuss the Five-seveN doesnt have the same effect, though it does share bullets with the p-90
:
The Five-seveN can penetrate a standard PAGST vest at 300m and standart CRISAT (kevlar + titanium) vest at 100 m.
But the 5-7 is only avelible for military or the cops...

And its not just britts that complains over USAs 2nd amendment...
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 03:14:53 UTC Post #175451
it's because of them that we needed the 2nd amendment to begin with. Plus, you'll notice that we won.
Wow, take that, Britain of three hundred years ago!

Grow up.
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 04:43:16 UTC Post #175462
Haha, he zinged you so good and you're just not able to take it, Seventh! Take the heat or get out of the kitchen! You're not a woman anyway, the kitchen's not where you belong. ;)
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 12:00:29 UTC Post #175553
Seventh-Monkey: YOU need to grow up and stop looking down your nose at people. I was not insulting BRITAIN. I was pointing out that our gun policy was obviously superior to yours, of 200 years ago. Notice the "200" and not a 300 like you said. If you were as learned as you claim, you'd know a bit of history.

Jobabob: I know Iraq exists coz of Britain. And it's damned well Britain's fault. If they'd split the land up according to tribes instead of land area, we wouldn't have all this sectarian violence these days. But then, british judgement has always been a bit cloudy. stil is as far as you've shown.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 13:20:05 UTC Post #175563
More gun rights =
Higher armed crime rate.

Atleast, uh, that's what I believe. Compare statistics, anyone?
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 13:41:43 UTC Post #175569
I bet gangs in gun-controlled countries are really intimidating. What do they use to fight with? swords? lol. No, they still have guns even though they are illegal.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 15:17:55 UTC Post #175601
Yup, but not everyone will be carrying one with them.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 15:20:29 UTC Post #175604
But the law-abiding citizens aren't going to be doing anything wrong with the guns, just hunting and responsible stuff.

It's only taking guns away from the good people when they're banned.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 15:20:32 UTC Post #175605
There aren't as many gangs in gun-controlled countries as in the USA. Only groups of "organized crime" and mafias have firearms. Some ex-security guards or ex-cop/army etc. own guns. Common criminals don't have easy access to those weapons. As you can guess, that's a huge difference.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 15:22:48 UTC Post #175608
Indeed. And most people that walk around in this world are far from resposible. There are more nutters walking out there then locked away. Take that from me.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 15:31:10 UTC Post #175613
but you either have to limit EVERYONE'S freedoms or NOBODY'S. and i don't want to lose any of my rights because some crazy guy that hasn't commited a crime yet MIGHT get a gun and MIGHT do something bad.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 15:40:39 UTC Post #175617
Even though Joba was being sarcastic "Self-Control, not Gun Control" is a good thought. If there was a way to rule out the dumb people from getting guns, it would fix some accidents like the Cheney incident. But then againas stated earlier.. crimes aren't usually committed with legally owned guns.. almsost always by those obtained through alternative methods.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 16:01:19 UTC Post #175624
Your rights to own a gun? You need to own a fire arm to feel free? Now there's something wrong with the US. You don't need bloody guns to exert political freedom. Is it worth 16,000 murders per year for the right to own a gun? Gun nuts scare me.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 16:08:17 UTC Post #175626
I love the way these suppos?d freedom nuts are so vociferous on the topic of gun rights and little else. Yeah, great, you're free to kill and intimidate people. Got your priorities right, eh?
Seventh-Monkey Seventh-MonkeyPretty nifty
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 16:10:11 UTC Post #175627
Then again, i wouldnt really call America a democracy.
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 16:13:10 UTC Post #175631
America's not really a democracy, you're right. :) The Founders wanted to prevent a "tyranny of the majority."
Posted 18 years ago2006-04-20 16:16:22 UTC Post #175633
Hahaa. That isnt quite how i look at it, but you got a point there.

you know whats crazyness? majority rules!

-army of the twelve monkeys
You must be logged in to post a response.