LEAF and LEAVES :P Created 15 years ago2008-07-23 00:19:43 UTC by BlueDragon

Here's the thing... I'm creating a map which is a real world place (and, please, don't start the story that "I should do that" or "Make it look different than the real place" because that's only my concern and responsibility, not yours).

Well, I'm doing well on creating it... it looks pretty much like the real place, but the problem is, as obviously, as the map grows, the closer it reaches to the limits. So, right now, I'm having a really boring thing... LEAFs (or leaves or however it says LEAF in plural ).

Well... I've been doing lot's of thing... since simplifying geometries and objects to reduce the map to the minimum and still look the same, which is something that should always be done to increase performance, and that I correctly done in my map... after that, the next step was making some objects into entities (like func_wall and func_ilusionary, depending on the situation), and, with that, I've been able to create even more and more stuff in my map... but... it reaches a point where it seems like there's no way out of this situation and I reach the limits without having any tip of how to improve the map in order to not reach them.

I have the -chart option in all the compiles and I can check that all the limits are under 50% (most of them, well below that value, rounding the 10% or a little bit more) but... there's this value who is the reason I'm writing here... the Leaves... always near (and now above... or else... crashing on) the 100%.

So, what I came here to, is not for you to tell me "reduce your map" or "it's impossible to create such a big map" (It isn't impossible, the whole building is complete and the most complex stuff that has to be in there is also complete and simplified) but, for the most expert of you could tell me what can be the best tips to reduce the LEAF amount in my map.

I tried to understand the concept of a LEAF... but it still is something very strange to me. For what I understand, one leaf is the definition of one map area that is tested to check which other LEAFs (map areas) are visible, and so with that, process the VIS compiler.

By the way... I never run the VIS process... it takes too much time that I can't waste on a test compile. Probably I'll run it on the final compile, but not now, and, also, I played the map on old computers and it it is fast and doesn't lag, even with 10 players (didn't made more spawn points yet).

So, what I want is some tips or trick that I may try to do in my map, in order to reduce the LEAFs number, so that I can compile it again, without having to hide some stairs or something else.

I know, one possible solution is to split the map into levels, but I really want to avoid that... I mean... at the end, I'll probably have to do that, because there's one part which I believe it will never fit inside this BSP as this will always be close to the LEAFs limit, even if you tell me some nice tips. But, I want to create the most possible in one BSP file, so that it doesn't take too much time to change levels and make my map boring.

Relevant info:

Mapping for: CS 1.6 (so, GldSrc engine :P)
Map type (not that this really matters): de_ (detonation/defusing)
Using: Valve Hammer Editor 3.5 BETA, ZHLT (the latest, 3.4 I guess), Wally for the WADs and other external apps to create the textures...
RMF size: 10MB
BSP size: 4MB
CSG + BSP process time: 10s
VIS process time: too long for me to check it (except when -fast, which doesn't take that much)
RAD process time: 150s (2m30s)

(all rounded numbers, it varies... sometimes it's less... this is worse case cenario :P)

So, please, MTV, pimp my ride... err... not!
Please, help me on this

Thanks in advance!

First of all, Fast VIS is way les accurate then full vis, it skips a few steps and is completely unreliable to check any data. all you can use it for is a quik light check in your map. So your best of doing a full VIS compile.

LEAF is the visual connections between the rooms, and if this exceeds 256 them you get this error. So wide open area's that have a lot of connections probably have this.

I think this explains it well: http://zhlt.info/common-mapping-problems.html#max_portals_on_leaf

Hey... I'm not having "max portals on leaf"... no... that part is OK... my problem is the total LEAF number... which is supposed to always be under 8192... my map now exceeds it... and, so it crashes.

About VIS, what I said is that I don't run it. It takes really much time, so I don't even try to run it. What I said about the -fast option is that, I tried that way, and I could run VIS in a acceptable time. Otherwise, it takes too much time for me to wait (I guess I tried and waited 20 min and still it didn't ended).

Also... you called LEAF to what a portal is... LEAF, is the room... portal is the connection.

Another completely diferent question:

Is it possible to make some players start inverted (feet on the ceiling of a floor). I wanted to have players starting on the ground and the others starting on the ceiling... of course this is not for this map of the "real place" as it doesn't happen in real life... it's for another map

I tried with Roll and with Pitch... but none of them works for that.

Roll only rolls about 45 degrees, not 180 as I wanted.

If at least it was 90?, It would be enough... but only 45, is not enough?

Any ideas (or a solution :P)?

Please tell'em