HL2 RPG (cont) Created 14 years ago2010-02-07 19:38:17 UTC by Notewell

http://www.twhl.co.za/forums.php?thread=16362
I don't suppose anyone is still working on this, are they?
It's something I'd like to do someday, after I get a new computer and episode 2.
While I have no idea how to do it in the code, I have ideas on what some systems could resemble for the mapper and ingame.
EDIT: Okay, then is anyone interested in getting this going again? Or am I the only one who would still like to do this?

If we can get some kind of coherent plan, instead of a mess of ideas, I'll still pitch in.

Well funny you say that... I was starting work on a quest light night for it.
I figure, if we just make a good amount of separate quests that span across a few maps, the 'world' will come together quite nicely.

For example; say we have a town called "Breenia".
In the beginning, that town has a few entrances/exits, a shop, and a hospital. Quest #1 would require you to, idk, get supplies from the hospital and deliver it to little johnny who is sick and his mother can't leave his side.. Johnny and his mother would live in a house, and they'd certainly have neighbors. Essentially what i'm saying is, so long as there's a purpose for 'most everything' the towns and cities should come together quite nicely, because we would build what we need as we go.

But i agree we should start brainstorming and get a bare-bones pre-alpha working map(s)

Strider and myself have already shown proof of concept in 2 stages
-Random spawning monsters based on area: Think the pokemon RPG system, only real-time
-hammer-coded experience system; modifying weapon damage based on experience gained.

I'm going to work on this map a little longer, polish it up, and see if i can include 3 things within it:
1- Multiple objective quest that when completed, 'levels up' the character, and allows for the use of a new weapon
2- random spawning monsters with some sort of alert / effect on spawn
3- see if i can get some NPC scripts working the way i want them to.

Seeing as how i've never done ANY of those before, this is going to be a challenge, but i'll work on it anyhow.

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I'm starting a mod folder now, and upon reading the old thread, i'll see if i can do SOMETHING with an inventory system. Not quite sure how i'm going to pull it off, but i'll try.

Thinking maybe like the ouija one. Hit the "I" button and it goes to a camera showing your current items / weapons.

You need a master plan for the main character. It won't be worth playing if you're just thrown at random missions that don't contribute to a defined plan. You may want to overthrow the government, fight off a Spanish invasion (ok, depending on the period) or whatever. If you got no real purpose, there's no motivation to collect random stuff for trading with random peasants.

If I were able to map for Source, I'd totally volunteer for it.

you can still contribute! And i'd say you're right. We need an objective, a main storyline, a backbone, if you will... My original concept was this:

My basic idea for the RPG (Title unkown so far) is that this story takes place in an alternate universe. A universe when the combine came and helped us, not faught us. They advanced our technology parallel to their own, and the world is now a utopia.
Citizens of city 17 (a beach-side utopian-paradise) willingly and prodly stand up to join the metropolice and combine militia. And live comfortably knowing that they will stop any crimes that go on.

This is where gordon comes in...

In a teleporting accident gone wrong, a dimensional rift opens up and a clone of gordon appears in the alternate-reality paradise of city 17... Something's wrong though. When gordon appears, a stir is created within the socioty.
Who is this gordon character? Why doesnt he say anything? Why does he make me uneasy?...

That comes straight from the old thread. So i guess we now need to vote on a storyline? or collectively come up with one?

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We're going to need an Experience / Level-up HUD
I'm looking into that now.

How about voting for a collective storyline, and forming the main story by combining the best ideas that come up?

I was thinking that the player could be a citizen who was just transfered to City 15, a european city just a few hundred kilometers away from City 17.
You get assigned a predinct, and explore the city. If it's on the OB engine, it could span to the countryside and some towns outside the city limits. It could also be up to the player whether they want to become a CP, with the ultimate goal of becoming a combine soldier, (at which point the game ends, as you are no longer the person you once were) or becoming a notorious rebel.

This would obviously happen sometime before the events of HL2, and I was thinking we could explain away the lack of different breencasts by saying the link to the citadel was severed by the rebels, and it hasn't been repaired yet.

Glad to see that people just hadn't seen the thread, will post concepts later.
EDIT: I'm also working on an area that could fit into most town/city areas, and the dam I'm working on for Rooms:S could be fit into a city area as well.
DamnthisisalongpostEDIT: I think the biggest problem would be getting an experienced coder who can get all the VGUI stuff working, including a conversation system and an inventory system. While I/O is fine for tech demos, it would be a pain to have to add to every map.
Anyway, anyone else interested?

There's already coding examples of experience systems on the valve wiki.
And there's a bunch of info on HUD extras too.
I didnt even think about the conversation system, that's a good point to bring up.
I've dabbled in C but i'm nowhere near good enough to write code on my own, just modify what's already there.

I dont even have a compiler.

I have a basic idea of what it could operate like, and how the mapper could implement it, but it needs code first.
It's almost supper, but I'll post my concept pics afterwards.

I like the idea of a beach-side utopian-paradise City 17. Perhaps you could throw a little Beyond Good & Evil in there, have a group of underground "spies" who believe something just isn't right, and start investigating the Combine.

I'll dig my old concepts out for this.

Basic Idea of what the conversation system would look like:VGUI Inventory system (With steam skins like the loading bars) Note: "wear" is the condition it is in, not the amount of wear. That part of the concept could also be removed.I also suggest a vote for having this be "Open source" if we ever get code, ie, others could use the DLLs, and we could post tuts for creating the systems.
There's a bit of text for these systems I've written (in a computer form of shorthand) that I can post if you want.
I also did the prices on the item GUI assuming that it would be the normal HL2 universe, obviously prices in the paradise city, if we go for that, would be jacked up more, as money would be easier to come by, and quarters wouldn't be taking the place of dollars.

Jeffmod, i love it.
I think the 'wear' percentage is a bit out of our league at the moment. I think we should focus on getting the basic groundwork laid out.
So we're gonna need code, that's just a fact. The random monster spawning is map based, so no code is needed for that.
But we're gonna need the following code:

Experience / level system
Custom HUD displaying experience and level/ objective GPS system
Choice-based conversation system
Inventory system

Once all that is laid out, we can start work... I need to look into nabbing a free C++ dev kit and compiler, until then.... well any volunteers?

Those conversation options reminded me of Mount & Blade.

I'm not sure the random spawn system would work in all areas, but it could work in some. In others it would be useful to use monstermakers with a max child value of 1 and set to spawn on map load, so every time you enter the area, there are new cops at their posts, zombies shuffling around, ect.
I think we should use a mix of that for spawning enemies.
I thought the wear might be a bit too hard atm, but I wanted to include it anyway.

Helmets and different clothing should give benefits- ie. Metrocop uniform and helmet lets you disguise yourself as a CP when you equip them and no enemies are around, as well as giving a total of a +2 armour modifier, a combine uniform could give you +2, and the helmet could only boost by 1, but gives you a blue-tinted nightvision to replace your flashlight.

Lastly, item_sodacans should give more than 1 health (about 10, maybe) weapon_citizenpackages should be able to heal the player (10HP a use, for 5 uses) and vending machines that give you items (except the combine ration dispensers) should subtract money ie. You buy a soda from an old vending machine for 50 cents. Breen's private reserve would remain free, as they only dispense prop_physics water cans.

We could also comprimise story-line wise by either having a town outside of the city where everyone loves the combine, or a slum district of the paradise City-17 where people know the truth.
I dunno, it seems like it would be more interesting to write for oppressed citizens than happy people
Happy:
Player: What's going on here?
Man: Nothing's going on, just happy people! Long live the combine!
Oppressed:
Player: What's going on here?
Man: Civil protection just raided that apartement. Bastards are getting more extreme each time. I can't live like this much longer.

Just IMO

You're throwing around +2's and +1's...
I'm not leaning towards a DnD RPG style; i was thinking to make it simpler than that.

Although i do like the money system. Using vending machines and all that good stuff.
Should go up in the HUD with the Experience display...

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Well i'm going to look into a free C++ program and compiler.

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Currently installing Visual Studio C++ trial edition. Sweet. It's 100% free.

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Okay i have the source files all setup, i'm looking into the adding experience tutorial in the valve wiki.
lol. wtf. the source code straight from valve doesnt even compile. 55 errors found. wonderful. i'll look at this tomorrow, got class.

@Jeff: Maybe there could be a different reason for oppresion instead. I liked the alternate universe idea, maybe it could be an alternate universe where something else is making the populace miserable. A rogue sect of Cthulhu followers, a mythical creature rampaging the streets every night, a die-hard Star Trek Potter fan-fiction writer. I've only played HL2 once and I'd already prefer to see something different new - I've already had enough of combine, manhacks, electro-sticky-magneto-amnesiac rolling balls, headcrabs...

You're throwing around +2's and +1's...
I'm not leaning towards a DnD RPG style; i was thinking to make it simpler than that.

Maybe I'm not explaining it well enough; The armour would give you more protection, depending on how good it is- A CP helmet would add to your protection, and CP armour would also add to it, for instance.
If could replace HEV power, with the CP stuff each adding 25, and the Overwatch stuff adding 50.

EDIT: Whoops. Can someone merge these, please?

I've only played HL2 once and I'd already prefer to see something different new - I've already had enough of combine, manhacks, electro-sticky-magneto-amnesiac rolling balls, headcrabs...

There would be a lot more new stuff in, either way. City 17 with a more lighthearted twist, or a new city, with new areas, and both would have new features, weapons, ect.
Personally, I don't want to do City 17 again. Redoing the landmarks, and having the citadel looming over me would be dry. Hence why I wanted to do another city.
I dunno.

Of course. Being an alternate reality, the Combine could have hired a different architect (picture a new citadel looking like the White House or the Tower of London), or straight out chosen a different city to base their operations - Hong Kong, Baghdad, Moscow, Buenos Aires... but then again, the story doesn't need to be located in the capital. Unless it involves overthrowing the government or something like that, in that case you're stuck having to do the capital at some point (whichever it is).

Yeah. The biggest thing for me, I think, is that I want to expand on the HL2 storyline, show what it was like before Freeman arrived.
As another compromise: Perhaps we could have a village full of people like Frohman fron Concerned, where they all worship the combine? There could always be a shining utopia of a city reserved for earth's richest, with Elite guards courtesy of Breen. Being a meglomaniac, he would insist that they track down all his old buddies and put them someplace nice.

Ibiza?

Not sure I follow.

There could always be a shining utopia of a city reserved for earth's richest, with Elite guards courtesy of Breen. Being a meglomaniac, he would insist that they track down all his old buddies and put them someplace nice.

Ibiza?

Better?

Not really. Is it a noun?

Ah. Thanks.
But how would you get there from eastern europe? Combine Teleporter's wouldn't work. Hmm...

A futurama-like tube-network

Why? It's not that far

As an alternative: how about some gorgeous villa in Italy?

what's wrong with teleporters? They'll work, no?

Combine teleporters can't bring you from place to place within one universe. Only from one universe to another, and that requires massive amounts of energy.

There could always be a shining utopia of a city reserved for earth's richest, with Elite guards courtesy of Breen. Being a meglomaniac, he would insist that they track down all his old buddies and put them someplace nice.

That's similar to the idea I had for my Sourcey rooms map; the idea that informants get to live in houses that belonged to the rich before the war, and they don't get beaten up for no reason by Civil Protection.

As an alternative: how about some gorgeous villa in Italy?

Proabably not in italy, but somewhere close to/in City 15 (assuming this is the path we take) As we don't know where the cities are, we can't really say where places near them are.
EDIT: My notes on the conversation system:

Conversation system- When triggered, player enters a conversation with an NPC, with VGUI based system for player sentence options- NPC will play a VCD defined by an external txt file, then the player will have options (also defined in the file) for what to say.
In the file, it will list the number of each phrase the player can say (up to 9), what it says, and what portion of the file to link to for the next NPC vcd and/or set of options.

Basically, think chero scenes stringed together with links, defined in an external file for every conversation.

Yes, but how exactly would you link the results of those conversations to in-game events? You'd have to, say, at least trigger a set of entities for each different outcome.

They way it would work would be the logic_conversation (or whatever) entity gets triggered, (usually through the player using the NPC) then it checks if any NPCs in the area are in combat. If not, it then disables the ability for combat, reads the file, which tells it to play a VCD, then gives the player a selection of options of what to say, each linked to another VCD, and optionally, another set of options. When there is no link after a VCD, it will end the conversation- the last VCD will be either a "Goodbye" sentence, or a "this coversation is over!" sentence.
As with all VCDs, they could trigger stuff ingame, so if you piss off an NPC, he/she could refuse to talk to you afterwards, through a trigger in the VCD and the I/O system.

What exactly is a VCD? Besides Video CD of course.

Most of the scripts from HL2. Basically when you see people talking, facial expressions, moving, gestureing, that's all one or more VCDs. Usually one at a time.

Thanks. I suspect I'd have to know more of Source mapping to understand any more detail.

Yeah stu, most of this stuff is going to be implemented with code. We're going to have to make our own entities.

From what i hear it's not hard. the entities just modify variables in the code that's already running. So essentially we'd just need an entity, like jeffmod said;

logic_conversation
-Name
-Message
-Response 1
-Response 2
|
|
|
-Response 9

We can have a 'repeatable' flag as well, as to not make everything redundant.

That seems like it would require a lot of ents to do it that way, though, which is why I thought an external file handling all the branches would work better.
So, more like this:
logic_conversation
-Name [paul_dam_talk]
-Conversation [scripts/conversations/paul_dam.txt]
-Combat Override [scenes/paul/incombat.vcd]
-Target 1 [paul]
-Target (2-8) []

(Combat Override is for a generic "Can't talk now" sentence/phrase, as you don't want to be stuck in the conversation if you're being shot at- If there is combat within the PVS and a radius of X units, it will make the NPC say that instead of entering the conversation system. The conversation system would disable combat when it's entered, to ensure battles don't break out while it is in progress.

How about a master instead? (or its source equivalent) That way you could also need to fulfill a requirement for the conversation to begin.

Or if you're told to "go do X then come back and I'll tell you more". If you don't do X, the master is off and the NPC won't talk to you until you do.

Well, they could be triggered by anything the mapper wants, so that could happen, yeah. But there should be the code, to ensure the player is never injured while stuck in the conversation system (you can't move or shoot under these systems, usually, and definetly not change weapons)

Indeed. Maybe also the weapon should be holstered while in a conversation. But we're going too far astray from the original topic.

What has to be done:

1. Define a storyline (including geographical settings) and general gameplay.

2. After the storyline, determine what will be the code-related needs.
3. Concept mapping.

It seems so easy when put like this...

I've got a "slum" area being worked on, with a shop, house w secret "underground railroad" room, and a bunch of buildings. (that's just so far, I will add a lot more sections to it) I also have my Rooms:S dam, which I wanted to use for something like this. (Which reminds me, I have to submit that.) I also have a few ideas for plot details, like the beginning, but we need to decide on an overall plot first.
Should we get all of TWHL to vote on storyline? Strider does have acess to the poll, after all.

Well it's coded into half life where you lower your weapon when you have a friendly unit targeted. We dont need to modify that at all.
We could do the conversation LOZ style (legend of zelda.) Imagine ocarina of time. Like you start a conversation, and everything freezes outside of the conversation....
although that may be harder than just having the

If combat,
Then
Don't talk
end

It is? I don't remember seeing that.

And it's End If

half life 2, anyway.
And you know what i mean, stu
I REALLY have to find the time to sit down and study this code.
We need to take this one step at a time, i think we can do this. I'm excited.

If combat,
Then
Don't converse
Play VCD [variable]
end

And
If no combat
then
disable combat
converse
enable combat
end
But anyway, we need story/quest ideas that could work with either storyline.

That'll come, Alpha coding needs to come first.

Anyone know how to code? I'm having trouble with compiling the base code.. there's like 53 errors.

Have you followed the instructions?
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Compiling_under_VS2008

Yeah. I think its because i'm not running the SDK base. So that's installing right now, and i'm taking a second crack at running the initial debug.

Hey, if only base source assets are used, would I still need the OB SDK base to run this if it's based off of the OB engine?