Let's talk about policy, baby! Created 20 years ago2004-05-04 07:03:38 UTC by hazardous!

...your an idiot. soon as i saw that paraniod post i reembered this tv show i saw about the top 10 conspiricies. there were people saying the goverment targeted microwave mind control weapons on them that made them hear voices in thier head. do you hear them now? whispers? its impossible to make them out, but they are there. remember, did we really make all these great inventions, or did the aliens give them to us? colour tv is way beyond us.

jahzel stop quating those idiots who have no life.
and indeed. if i adjust my camera right i can create the same effect wiht some photshoping

The original picture was a polaroid blahblah

Oh, that must be so hard to fake.
First, you get some photoprint paper, then you print the photo

Dunno how it is in your homecountry, yesterday there was a radio show title "The power of pictures.". Very interresting. It had all those torture and decapitation things as central theme.
I also learn new things about Iraq and the American soldiers. If one GI accidentally kills an iraqi civilist, there is no punishment for him. All he has to do, is paying a laughable $2500 compensation. "Whoops, there goes another pair. Hm, $5000 I can afford it." There is absolutely no punishment. I think, that if a soldier kills a civilian, for which reason ever, must be banned from the army FOREVER!
That's one of those things which really really annoy me.

How can you discerd if it was self-defence to kill that civilian, or did it just happen in the heat of battle, or was the civilian shot in cold blood?

Don't be so easy on it. People die in wars, it's a hostile environment, it just happens. No, I don't like it either, but what can you do?

A while ago a Dutch marine shot a man. A large group of raiders threatend our marines and warning shots didn't drove them away. So the marine shot, and if it was accidentally or not, a man got killed by it. Immediatly this marine was arrested and brought back to the Netherlands. He was accused for murder.
I was shocked. A man, doing his work, doing the dirty work that many law-enforcers wouldn't want or dare to do, was accused for murder. How did these policemen knew he shot the man in cold blood? How did they know he aimed for him? They didn't know, they hadn't even investigated the happening.

Now I ask you, is THAT righteous? Arresting a man and accusing him for murder without any form of investigation? This man did his job. He drove away the raiders. How can people that know nothing, nothing of what war really is, judge the event so quickly?

War is harsh, cruel and most of all unfair. It's a shocking experience. Think about it. We are all placed on this earth to live of its resources and prosper joyously. Yet, look at all the acts of hurt and pain committed to the human race everyday. Attacking another person, killing another person its beyond comprehension.

Life is a precious gift, a rare property that we all possess, yet it takes a simple action for it to be taken away again, most of the time in a rather gruesome fashion.

Where will the world go from here? Are we destined to take each other out forever? Or is there a shred of sanity left among us?

(Please excuse me for being poetic and single minded, but I felt like saying it)

Don't be so easy on it. People die in wars, it's a hostile environment, it just happens. No, I don't like it either, but what can you do?

:
That's the problem. War mustn't be an excuse for anything. There are strict rules and laws which explicitly define whether a murder happened in self-defense or not. The case of the Dutch marine is quite clear. The marine shot because the people didn't do what he said. This sounds like "Do what I order, or you will die!". He could have shot into the air, he could have used non lethal weapons, something like that. If someone uses a weapon, he must be fully capable of controlling it, if he's not, he mustn't use one. Of course there must be a fair trial which gives one a chance to proof one'S unguilt or to lessen the heaviness of the deed. If a marine kills people without an urgent reason, he must be punished and banned from the military. That is the only just thing.

...your an idiot. Soon as I saw that paranoid post I remembered this TV show I saw about the top 10 conspiracies. There were people saying the government targeted microwave mind control weapons on them that made them hear voices in their head. Do you hear them now? Whispers? Its impossible to make them out, but they are there. Remember, did we really make all these great inventions, or did the aliens give them to us? Colour TV is way beyond us.

'Crazy', 'Paranoid', and 'Insane' are words used throughout history to describe people and ideas that are simply different. And different does not mean wrong. So many condemned and ridiculed ideas in the past have later become conventional wisdom. - First they ridicule you; then they condemn you; then they say they knew you were right all along.

What you are also getting rather incorrect is that the Government do not always use Microwave Technology to transmit voices in our heads, but to influence the way we act and behave as the people. Mind control isn't always the popular 'Microwave' (etc) method of control. Mind control can be a number of things. Perhaps the most used technique is Religion in general, followed by the media, trauma-based mind control, and problem-reaction-solution (they create a major problem such as terrorism, we inevitably panic and are left with only one choice, rely on good ol' them to help us out - thus co-operate with them.)

jahzel stop quating those idiots who have no life.
and indeed. if i adjust my camera right i can create the same effect wiht some photshoping

These idiots to whom you claim 'have no life', have no life simply because you strongly, and ignorantly, feel that anyone who infuriates your glamorous perception of reality must therefore be subject to ridicule. As for your Photoshop boasts, I'm sure you could produce some image, but in my opinion, the image is much too ?original? for the mind of a hoaxer. In other words, it is unlikely that a hoaxer could create an image as spontaneous as this without there being noticeable mistakes. You CAN tell a Photoshop faked image from something like this. I suggest you visit the site to see the full picture. As it was on Polaroid film, a hoaxer could not make a 3D statue that is clearly self-luminescent. You say this is not sufficient evidence, but all I say is there is also no sufficient evidence to prove otherwise. Let's leave it at that shall we...

P.s. I'm really sorry pepper. I'll in future stop quoting these idiots who have no life.

Here, hope this works...

He could have shot into the air, he could have used non lethal weapons, something like that.

He did. But Iraqi's aren't afraid of that. They shoot in the air for every reason (or no reason at all).

War mustn't be an excuse for anything.

To some extend. You want to put war into rules, but you'll see it's impossible. No side will totally obey these rules. It would be nice if they did, but it's not gonna happen. That's reality. It's unfair sometimes, yes.

There are strict rules and laws which explicitly define whether a murder happened in self-defense or not.

How can you oversee events in the heat of battle? That's difficult. Sure, when one murders trough brutality, I'd say punish him. But if it was self-defence or accident? The question here is: how do you know exactly what and why it happened? The rules are clear. The situation is not.

This sounds like "Do what I order, or you will die!".

More like: "don't steal, or face the consequences" to me.

If a marine kills people without an urgent reason, he must be punished and banned from the military. That is the only just thing.

I agree with that one.

The question here is: how do you know exactly what and why it happened? The rules are clear. The situation is not.

For those situations there is an general rule, dunno know it in latin, that says that if your guilt can't be proven, you won't be convicted.

More like: "don't steal, or face the consequences" to me.

But the consequences must be equivalent to the deed. The people didn't do what the marines ordered, and died. That is not equal at all.

This was no punishment, but prevention. And it was not just the marine's order, it was the law that these people were disobedient to.

Maybe I had to explain the situation better. About a 100 people drove and walked up to the marines, most of them armed. The marines were far outnumbered. They tried to prevent the looting by getting their guns. One marine shot in the air, but the raiders continued. Then the marine shot on the ground, and a man felt dead. You may see it as punishment, I see it as prevention.
The consequence not equal to the deed? In the perfect situation, you could punish equal to the deed. But remember, it's war, and not all options are available. From my point of view, the marine choose the best. I don't believe he wanted to kill that man. I believe he wanted to stop them from stealing. I see it as more likely an accident that the man died. Not punishment.

I didn't use the word "punishment" anywhere in my post.
Anyway they could've use gas grenades or something. If the soldier didn't kill the man on purpose, the punishment should be lowered.
But let's get away from this ceratin case, and get back to the more general things.
The killed and was punished. I can't tell whether it was just or not, cause I didn't see it.
But I will again try defend my point of view. You crossed a road though the traffic lights were red. A police man orders you to stay where you are, but you run away. After a while he catches you and beats you with his baton to keep you from running away again. Quite similar example, though less extreme. Would that be just.

If he had his baton at ready, a quite similar situation. But what's the injustice here? YOU offended the law. If the law says such punishment is allowed, then that's justice. You should know your law, and act accordingly. You know the consequences so it's your fault when you receive punishment. Those raiders could have stopped raiding. You could have stopped for the traffic light.

I know, you want punishment equal to the deed, but what is equal at first? Secondly, is it always so easy to punish equally? CAN you do so at that moment? Can you say one made the wrong decision when the better decisions were impossible?

Well, as we can see there's no point in continuing this debate. You cannot be convinced be and I won't be convinced by you. :
Next topic!

Reminds me of most debated BTW...

Debates, I mean...

ZZzzzzz.

But... One thing. Why is it that The Sun seem to have on their front page: THEY COULD ALL BE DEAD, and SCANDAL OF POWDER ATTACK MI5 PREDICTED. I mean, its not like we really give a flying f- about Tony Blair getting flour bombed. God, what is this nation coming too...?

Balderdash. Only people with long beards and thick accents donning turbans dislike the running of this country.

...Nevermind this country, what about disliking the running of the world?!

The golfball seems to have landed in a bunker. Can someone play the bunker shot?

WWIII is hl2

Well, you seem to have a life. really.

Hrmpf. Tih sthread went good a while but now it's stuck. Ok, there isn't much going on the world, but there is always something to talk about, bushs iraq policy, elections in america are comming, blahblupblah. Don't you want to proof that you are well educated and that your skills to run discussion go beyond "what nationality are you". I don't intend to criticise this thread, but isn't it alarming that it has more replies than this thread?
I bet you can bring this thread up again.

I want to give this thread one more chance. It even dropped below this qwerty 'hello peeps' spam shit thread.
I made little teaser, you might have an oppinion on.Hope this image upload thingy works ^.

This pic might seem a bit radical, but there's thruth in it.
And I do not respect Adolf or what he has done in any way.

ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY, THEY ALL WANT ME DEAD. AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

eh'em anyways... lol.

I couldnt agree more hazardous!.

You Americans out there can stop this. As far as I know there'll be elections soon. If you want to hinder Bush choose the lesser evil.
Hm, do I sound like a politinally radical, or something?