Team Mapping - GB contest #54 Created 9 years ago2015-01-20 04:48:38 UTC by team.twhl

Oh ok I thought I needed to wait for a PM here.

Thanks CapT.

@CT
I hadn't decided on joining yet as it did look like you had all of the mappers you needed, and I wasn't sure if I had the time really. When you mentioned that there hadn't been a response from Alberto yet I decided to offer my services as a modeller, but the next time I got around to checking the thread again to say that was when I posted. It doesn't matter now anyway, as obviously Alberto is part of the group now.

@Alberto
I'd say that you should probably stay on, as I also don't know how to animate models, and to be honest my texture making abilities are still fairly weak.

TJB
No worries m8! I hope you join the next one because ANY team would benefit from your mapping skills

Boys and girls, we are now very close to the fun part of the team-mapping experience:

The Mapping and the Detailing!

Having FINALLY filled in the remainder of the shell covering Zeeba's extremely fun-to-play base layout, I'd like everyone to start looking at the Dibs Sheet in the

Map/Layout

folder AND the current version of the basemap.

All current claimed areas are still up-in-the-air, and subject to change, e.g., just because my name is listed on CT spawn, doesn't mean I HAVE to do it. if someone else had their heart set on taking it

Once all the areas are claimed--and we all agree--we can proceed in a couple different ways:

Method One
Give me sketches of how you want the area to look, and Myles or myself or someone else will flesh it out for you. If you didn't have the time for example

Method Two
Once you've received a copy of the RMF, built all your brushwork and placed all your models and sprites, textures, etc., PM it to me. From here I will optimize--if necessary--, and integrate your work into the final map.

With Myles permission, I'll be doing the final compile with Sledge.

I think this will be the most efficient way to finish the map on time, and should work for everyone--whether you have a lot of time or just a little!

What do you guys think?

Sounds perfect!

I'm thinking i can export the map to blender and detail with models

That's a great idea! You could replace the giant stalagmites that captain made possibly.

Yeah that would be really awesome Tet!

I have to resign from this. I just can't do this on my time and February is always such a short month.

I'll post what I have so you guys can look at it.

Sorry to see you go Rim, I was really looking forward to working with you.
Post whatever WIPs / sketches / anything in your folder and we'll pick it up where you left off!

I got dibs on A. Sorry to see you go dude! Guys we have to pick up the pace now, 15 days left.

Now extending the layout really isn't a good idea imo.

Aw man sorry really to see you go Rimmeh, but we understand you have RL commitments.. ='(

But now we have some holes to fill, the big ones left being Long and B bombsite.

Soon as my areas are done I can take one or the other if they're still unclaimed. it would make sense for me or Myles to take Long I guess, since our areas both adjoin it

Lukas
Maybe you can take B bombsite?(Alberto is contributing models only, and afaik Strider is only helping with texture stuff)

Current Roster of Teamates
Alberto
CapT
Jessie
Luxasz
Rimrook
Strider
Tetsu0
zeeba-G (Project Leader)

I also agree expanding the layout in any major way is a bad idea now; we can always add crash edits at the very end if we discover major gameplay holes.

Excited about what the end product will look like!

Hey guys, I've been a bit messed up with times these days. I'm making the models now but I'm not a texture artist so I think I need the textures for the stalagmites and stalagtites. Should I use the one you used for the cave, or some new ones?

P.S.: Damn Rim, sorry to see you go. I hope we can work toghether on another project in the near future.

It's a good question alberto. Can you give us 2 sets, one with the cave-textured one's and one with one of Strider's limestone textures?

Again, if you can give us scales ranging from small flashlight-sized ones to big columns, with varying lengths. This should give us some nice peripheral detail without taking away from our brushes budget

I just grabbed one from CGtextures and applied it with a Cylindrical UV Unwrap.
What software are you using for modeling?

I'm using kHED because it's the only software that runs on this damn calculator... Otherwise I would've used Blender or 3DS Max (Milkshape 3D crashes).

Anyway, alright CapT, I'll try to make some different ones as you wish :3 (tho I can't sculpt with kHED :<).
Also, if you would like to make them out as brushwork, I could convert them to ".obj" and then compile them to ".mdl". Your choice.

Alberto, blender is relatively easy to run for any computer. Low-Poly modeling shouldn't give you any trouble.
plus the UV tools are great, and I have the Blender -> HalfLife process down to a Science

Also, if you would like to make them out as brushwork, I could convert them to ".obj" and then compile them to ".mdl". Your choice.

OOhhh that would be extremely useful Alberto, kinda like Propper for GS? will the textures stay put too? I think Tet was also trying to do this in Blender, but he might have had some issues getting everything to work.

I'll throw some brushwork props in your dropbox folder folder to test... =)

There are a few issues, but nothing major.
1) Each brush gets split up into their individual faces. Fixing that is a simple matter of selecting all the faces and joining the vertices.

2) Textures don't carry over, and UV maps aren't generated. So You need to manually unwrap and texture.

The benefit however is if there's an awesome detail that's brushed out you can convert it to a model relatively easily and save some wpoly.

TL:DR, brushwork your heart out with sledge and I can convert the crazy stuff into models.

TL:DR, brushwork your heart out with sledge and I can convert the crazy stuff into models.

Awesome!

That relieves some of my worry about running out of brushes. Hope to update the map tonight with t-spawn additions.

It would be better to have them compiled instead of .rmf, CapT.
If you make everything as "null" and the faces that has to be textured with the actual textures, kHED will automatically remove every face with the null texture by default.
To compile it, just hollow a null brush around the brushwork and add an info_player_start inside the hollowed brush. Then compile it using CSG and BSP only (no VIS and RAD basically). Then upload it to my Dropbox folder. :3

@Tet: I can easily join every vertex in just few minutes, as Goldsrc brushes aren't detailed like a HP model.
I'll let you make the UV map as I'm not good at it (also because kHED has a crap UV interface).

Anyway, I think that stalactites and stalagmites can't be made of that material since they're only made of limestone IRL. Are you going to change that rock texture in the map? Otherwise, stalactites and stalagmites would be wrong placed there imho.
I thought that because: do you really know how stalactites are formed?

Alberto
Tbh, I can make those MUCH more easily out of brushes, so I'd say forget the stalagtites/mites.

NONE of the textures in the map are final right now either, so it's hard to answer your question(s). You make good points doe

We have modellers already and less people to unwrap/paint them, so it's improbable you're going to get someone to unwrap/paint them for you.

If you'd like to make any original models that fit the theme and you can get them skinned somehow, go right ahead. If not, I'm afraid we might not need you on this one..

Sorry HOMIE!

i'll unwrap.
I've got a good system down

Strider
Those HOTT-new textures are game-changing, awesome work sir!!

No problem CapT. If you want other specific models feel free to make me a list here or write it down on a text file and upload it to my Dropbox folder.

@Tet: I have uploaded my current .obj and .mtl with textures (and a compiled one) in my Dropbox folder so you can take a look at them and make your own edits if you want.

I've been watching this thread for quite a while now (though couldn't say anything while the contest was on going), but hats off to you guys! Other than the little mistake that cost you a few points on the scores, this was a truly epic map!

You've only gone and won yourselves $100!!!!

You can find the judges oppionion and full ranking here http://gamebanana.com/news/21217.

Once again great work guys, we'd love to see you enter more contests in the future!

Thanks Jon!!!!

We appreciate you-all being so fair with us(considering the last-minute upload SNAFU), and what an absolute blast it was competing!

Mega congrats, guys. You all deserve it!

Woo Hoo!
Thanks all

D'aw thanks Archie!

I have a new-found respect for you having to deal with Goldsource these past years working on The Core; I forgot what a PITA it is compared to GO mapping, in terms of resource limits, random-ass errors, friggin' everything really

Having Sledge Editor and Tetsu0 to debug shit made it managable tho. I can personally only take so much from GS's quirkiness before giving up..

Neat, good work guys. Congrats!

Thanks!

After that last day making the map, I went to sleep and saw hint brushes XD

Conga rats! <8O~ <8O~

After that last day making the map, I went to sleep and saw hint brushes XD

It's a bird, it's a plane, wait, it's HINTMAN! Striving to make maps right which once went wrong, hoping each time his next compile, will be the compile home

If I learned one thing from this it would be that I NEVER want to make a 1.6 map ever again(at least not without Tetsu0 to optimize and debug).. What a royal pain in the ass!

Captain, I recommend reading up how the compile tools actually split the map, and how the engine renders it. If you understand the framework of the engine, it's easier to control.

We ran out of clipnodes - Func_illusionary all the things!
We were sky-high on wpoly - Hint all doorways, and split vertical sections. Func_illusionary-ing complex geometry and covering with basic clip brushes helps this.

But wait, Tetsu0, I thought the new func_detail is a great new addition? What about that?

I have actually found out through testing that passable func_details generate clipnodes and func_illusionaries do not. It was a lesson learned too late but I created a test map to check the differences and was amazed.... All you have to do is look at the compile log to see this. (it tells you what % of clipnodes, models, brushes, etc...)

I also increased all floor and ceiling texture scales to 1.5.
Any un-accessible areas were heavily nulled, func_illusioned and I also increased THOSE texture scales to 1.5-2.0 depending on distance to player.

Our issue stemmed from throwing in massive amounts of detail all at once and expecting the engine to take it. I'm actually impressed that the engine stood up to so much. I'm even more impressed that a handful of Hint brushes took the highest wpoly count about 65% (looking straight across the map). It only took an evening or two (probably 4-6 hours) to get the map running smooth. Sledge's auto visgroup function was ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to my progress there, so Penguinboy, you really REALLY have my love.

I have a great deal of respect for the goldsource engine after making that map - it was also a fantastic learning experience - I hope i have the time and motivation to make a tutorial or a write up on how I optimized that map. I think everyone on this site should have those skills. They also apply to source

I hope i have the time and motivation to make a tutorial or a write up on how I optimized that map. I think everyone on this site should have those skills.

^ Yeah dude that would be an incredibly-helpful tutorial! Write it while all the info is fresh in your mind!

I have actually found out through testing that passable func_details generate clipnodes and func_illusionaries do not.

Yes, but i think only if you use

clip economy

and

presice

under CSG options you made us aware of under Advanced compile? I remember changing all the crystals in the map to func_illusionary(using Normal compile), and the results were worse(either in more clipnodes or the map failing to compile)..

Does func_detail play any useful role then?

Oooh right.
Forgot about clip economy.
Im not sure about detail vs wall

Tet, would the simple action of just using Bevel textures rather than null not massively help on the clipnode side of things?

Hey guys!

Greetings for the 2nd place! I knew that you could do it!

Tet, would the simple action of just using Bevel textures rather than null not massively help on the clipnode side of things?

I haven't the slightest clue. I'll have to make a test map and check the compile log.

I think Lukas did various tests using

BEVEL

and

SKY

brushes, and there were only very negligible reduction in clipnodes usage compared to using

NULL

.

Congratulations guys :>.Also here's the link for the SKY vs NULL vs BEVEL thread http://twhl.info/forums.php?thread=17867

but CT, BEVEL doesn't create clipping planes whereas NULL does.

Well, it didn't make more than a 1 or 2 percent reduction in clipnode usage on our map; maybe Lukas can share his test results in here.

I think much more important than what u use for unseen faces is the aforementioned "clip economy" mode under advanced compile, which lowered our usage something like 30%

still though. for a fast-paced game you don't want to get caught on fancy geometry. The best bet is to clip it off anyway

Absolutely Brett, and I KNOW you did a lot more work other than just using the

clip economy

mode to fix optimization dilemmas