The Official HRAFD Progress/Troubleshoot Created 9 years ago2015-06-09 18:46:11 UTC by Half-Rats

Urby gave me some dimensions and it worked. Thanks, everyone. Just took a little reconstruction and it was all set.

When in doubt, steps of 16units deep X 8units high.

I usually go with 12x8 unin stairs. Don't forget to clip the stairs also.

Alright. I'm nearing the home stretch with this demo. I'm still having trouble with the scripted sentences and ambient_generics interacting with each other properly. If I was strictly using scripted sentences alone, I could just time several of them, and they could trigger each other, and very fluidly by adjusting the sentence length and trigger delays...since I'm using ambient generics and scripted sentences in tandem, though...it hasn't been working out well.

I have a trigger_once set up in such a way, that as soon as you walk into the room, Barnaby goes into his first speech - that speech then triggers an ambient_generic that plays immediately after Barnaby's sentence is done, which contains the player character's line.

It sounds good so far, and convincing for the most part...but that's where the chain ends, since an ambient generic cannot trigger anything, a solution could be a multi-manager, correct?

Would I have to use a multisource, too? How could I set this up to sound like a convincing conversation? Any tricks? It consists of six lines between Barnaby and the Player total, that range from 5 seconds to 40 seconds each.

You're correct; have your scripted_sentence trigger a multimanager.
That multimanager will play the ambient_generic sound at time = 0, and then start the next scripted_sentence after a specified time.

You shouldn't need a multisource, this is a simple trigger sequence.

So, how do I work with timing with a multimanager? Does the multimanager just wait until after something is finished?

Remember, I'm using several scripted sentences and several ambient generics.

The flow would be like this -

Scripted Sentence (Barnaby): 20 seconds

Ambient generic (Half-Rats): 24 Seconds

Scripted Sentence (Barnaby): 40 Seconds

Ambient Generic (Half-Rats): 44 Seconds

Scripted Sentence (Barnaby): 10 Seconds

Ambient Generic (Half-Rats): 4 Seconds

Done. All of that is designed to form a somewhat realistic conversation.

You add parameters to the multi_manager which define what to trigger when. E.G. If you add the Key-Value pair "door":"7", then 7 seconds after the multimanager is triggered, it will trigger the entity/entities with the name "door". (Parameters are added to entities with the "Add" button in the entity properties, if you weren't aware. I think you have to have SmartEdit off if you're using Hammer rather than Sledge.)

So, what you would be doing is setting up the multimanager to have a parameter for each different scripted_sentence/ambient_generic you have in the conversation. The values of those parameters are the timing. Note that it works in seconds after the multimanager is triggered, not seconds after the last item in the list.

EDIT: This was in the tutorials, will probably make more sense if mine didn't. http://twhl.info/tutorial.php?id=37

Ohhhh! Excellent! That makes much more sense and is waaayyy easier than I thought. Thank you once again! By the way, I have been 'repping TWHL on my moddb page in every news update so far.

Okay, I sent my mod for testing...is it supposed to have the "User" folder in the mod folder? A friend attempted to install my demo and play it, but it won't work. What are all the things I need to include in my package?

I have the feverdemo.bsp, the .nod and .nrp files for it in the graphs folder, the halfrats.wad file, all of the sounds and models and sprites, the config.cfg, I also have the liblist included and it looks like this:

// Valve Game Info file
// These are key/value pairs. Certain mods will use different settings.
//
game "Half-Rats: A Fever Demo"
startmap "feverdemo"
trainmap "t0a0"
mpentity "info_player_deathmatch"
gamedll "dlls\hl.dll"
gamedll_linux "dlls/hl.so"
gamedll_osx "dlls/hl.dylib"
secure "1"
type "singleplayer_only"

The only files I did not have in there are the "SAVE" folder and "User" screen saver application thing...

There are no error messages. The game starts up, but when he goes to click on "new game", it doesn't launch. Nothing happens. He also has this to say:

"Also, when I launch the mod (and the original Half Life game menu pops up), the mod creates a save folder named hr-a in the half life folder, which no other mod I've played did."

I'd get rid of the mpentity, the linux and osx dlls, and the secure lines in your liblist. If you don't have custom code, also get rid of the gamedll entry, that is only if you have a custom dll. Also don't include config.cfg, it'll supersede his config which you don't want.

Also, there's a game cfg in my models folder...get rid of that, too?

Well, the demo released and it's getting pretty decent reviews! Thanks, guys!

Alright, these level changes are still kicking my ass. Ugh. I did it all by the book. I'm spawning at the origin of the map still. Ugh. Should I just move all of my maps so their startpoints are at the origin? Hahaha.

Each level still has to have a player start.
And just make sure your landmark is in the right place.

What is the right place? I have two landmarks with different names. One at the beginning, and one at the end. At this point I'm trying to get the level to change while I'm climbing up a ladder.(The ladder is in a small tunnel)

It's doing that thing where it spawns me at the origin of the map, without any of my weapons carrying over.

The right landmark place is identical to the relative landmark position in the previous map. That is, if the landmark in map 1 is 16 units east of rung #3 in your ladder, the landmark in map 2 must be 16 units east of rung #3 in your ladder. Coordinates don't have to and shouldn't be the same, it's the relative position that is important.

Double check your landmark placement, naming, and the target map names. Pretty sure you've just made a simple mistake somewhere.

Usually it seems to work after I delete and re-do the trigger_changelevel and the landmark and compile several times, haha.

I can't help, I never did bother getting the hang of level changes

I think Unq has the answer here. Ensure the names are exact. Ensure the level transitions are referencing the same thing. Also check to see you don't have a hidden duplicate landmark somewhere

I'll keep all of you posted!

An easy thing to do is create 2 test box levels, just to get the level change working, and then copy & paste the entities into your actual maps.

Okay, with some nitpicking, I have been successful in getting my level transitions to work somewhat correctly! Turns out the trigger changelevels were not in the proper spot. Wasn't a landmark problem after all.

OK, though I suggest you get them working more than "somewhat".

Level changes are a notorious problem in many single player mods, if they are not done right they can trap the player in a wall or the floor.

Yeah, let me retract that...I meant to say 99% satisfaction with the transitions. On a somewhat related note; I would like to know more about what the trigger_transitions really are, though...Moving on...

Alright, well, morale certainly got a boost in my camp lately. My one-person, first-ever-mod camp...My demo being featured on Moddb came out of nowhere and was a pleasant surprise, and it was also good to see Military Duty on there as well...

Now, the downside - I've got some big shoes to fill in order to live up to expectations. My mapping is almost complete and I'm not too worried about the scripting for later, but the first level is heavily scripted and is basically my roadblock to ultimately finishing this. I mentioned it in a fragmented way in previous posts...but I think I have to go into more depth with what I wish to do, and want to know if it's even entirely possible.

I've learned quite a bit since starting this project and I can't think you enough, guys and gals (Even though I've thanked you everywhere possible so far, haha.) I have been able to take what you've taught me and utilize it on my own many times, and have been able to overcome many challenges thus far. So here goes:(Super spoiler alert! Contains a synopsis of...a lot of the game.)

1st level:

Streets outside of "Trask dry goods and sundries". There's a camera that's slowly closing in on the window of Half-Rats bedroom while there's a narration by yours truly and the theme playing in the background. Everything is fine, there's some folks walking down the sidewalk, some cabs and coaches in the street...Then, once it's done, a level change is triggered.

2nd level:

A copy of the first level, only you are now controlling Half-Rats in his bedroom atop the general store. The level has faded in while you hear the shop owner's voice echoing in your head. You are told to get your revolver. You wake up, an ambient generic is triggered that is basically Half-Rats grumbling to alertness and questioning what the hell is going on. You're not sure what's up, but it sounds bad outside. (Optional) You steal a glance out the window and realize the streets are chaos.

You run and get your gun, and head downstairs to meet the shopkeep, Mr. Trask. (Who sounds a bit like Daniel Day-Lewis in "There will be Blood".)

You meet him at the foot of the stairs and he begins to tell you something's very wrong. Half-Rats replies by telling the shopkeep to run behind the counter and hand him ammunition. Once the shopkeep gets behind the counter, ammunition, armor and food (Health) will begin to spawn on top of the counter. Monsters of different types will begin to spawn in and get inside the general store from the street. Ammunition, health and armor will respawn after each pickup. A short while later, the shopkeep and half-rats will comment on the situation & monsters. Fast forward to a bit later: half-Rats will be instructed to go outside and grab timbers to cover the doors and windows.

For that part, I thought to have a func_wall toggle, and some timbers that disappear in the shed behind the store when you "pick them up". Kind of like that key issue I had. When you have the timbers and press the use key at the windows and door, the walls will toggle on in the form of boarded windows/door. Then, the shopkeep will instruct you to follow him. He will run into the storage room and tell you to break the floorboards and gain access to a tunnel. You reply and oblige.

END.

Now, you can see why I'm shaking in my boots...It sounds like a scripting nightmare when it's all written down. Is all of that even possible? I have a strong feeling that if it is, it's still something that would test the mettle of even the most experienced GS modders...

Wait...i didn't think I'd be saying this, but...it's actually going much easier than I thought...

Main question. How do I get Mr. Trask to run to a certain location or multiple locations and begin speaking?

I can't remember if scripted_sentences have any sort of movement parameters. If not, just use a scripted_sequence to get him to move to a spot. To get him to do things afterwards, just link it up the same way as other things: get the sequence to trigger the next scripted_sentence, line it up in your multi_managers, etc.

tl;dr: scripted_sequence

As for anything else you need help with, dot points would be nice

I checked. no movement parameters, but I think I'll try that out. Yeah, disregard that huge block of text up there, everyone...nothing to see there...Phew. For the scripting, I decided to break everything up into unrelated chunks that give the illusion that they are related. Just a few odds and ends and I should have this sewed up.

The camera is facing in the wrong direction. It insists on it. I want it to face forward, it decides it wants to face backwards as it moves along. All of the directions have been set properly, but it still wants to look backwards and zoom out, rather than IN like I wish it to. Is that because it wants to face the player start?

The main recommendation I have: get your map tested before release. Have a handful of players play through it and get feedback, and be open to the feedback you get. I'm kind of underselling testing, but it's simply not done enough on mods and they usually suffer for it.

Surely The Core is still not out because they're testing every last bit of it.

Well, thanks, guys. I had planned on it...but my trigger_camera is still misbehaving. Any reason why it insists on turning around and going in reverse, even after I've tried turning it in every direction? I used a func_tracktrain so it would pivot properly.

Is the info_target also moving? Because it might be that the camera is just leaving it behind. Cameras don't rotate unless they're looking at a moving target, I think.

Yeah, I have the target as a func_tracktrain. Which travels on a path.

I followed the trigger_camera tutorial here on TWHL.

Have you tried using a func_train instead of func_tracktrain? If it just is a target, a more complex mobility like a func_tracktrain wouldn't be necessary as it will be invisible anyway? Anyway, I think trigger_camera works better with a func_train as a target, though I haven't been messing around with cameras too much.

Well, it now insists on looking at the side of the street...It STARTS in the direction it is supposed to, but turns anywhere but where it is supposed to.

is the direction facing east in hammer?
All trains need to start facing left->right (east)

It's a cube, so the direction is a bit ambiguous. BUT, I do have it set to 0 as far as the angle is concerned. Basically, EVERYTHING is set up EXACTLY the way it is in the Trigger_camera tutorial. The only difference is the naming and the number of path corners.

Alright, yeah, it just doesn't work. I'm going to try adjusting the speed of the train and camera. perhaps the camera and train are going at the same speed and the camera is looking to the side because it's running neck and neck. Alright...tests have revealed that the train isn't moving at all for some reason.

Update: Re-did everything...and now the CAMERA isn't moving.

Does the func_train have an origin brush? You need one if you're going to use it as a camera target.

Re-re-re-did everything and it works for some reason now. Sometimes you just gotta' tear everything out and do it all over again, I guess. And yep, there was definitely an origin brush stuck at the origin of the train. Now, to get those horses coupled with the carriages and those pedestrians moving...and the changelevel to trigger when it's all done. What's a good way to accomplish the changelevel? I was thinking having the multi_manager handle when that occurs, and then putting a landmark right where the player spawns in the next level.

Hmmm, player seems to actually be spawning at the trigger_changelevel, rather than the landmark. Which I had to place outside of the area where the player can go so they wouldn't back into it.

Landmarks simply tell the engine which part of each map in a changelevel corresponds to the opposing map. They don't need to be anywhere near the changelevel and serve only to provide a point of reference in each map. The landmark must be in both maps.

The player will not 'spawn' anywhere in a standard changelevel. They will simply transition between maps in exactly the same place they leave the previous map - this is what the landmark entity exists to accomplish.

Wherever the player is relative to the info_landmark is where they will appear relative to the info_landmark in the next map, basically. This is the case no matter how you trigger the changelevel entity (it can be triggered like any other entity, or used as a walk-into trigger itself).

Here are two examples:The yellow box is the landmark, the green box is the player and the orange rectangle is a trigger_changelevel.
Note that regardless of how the changelevel occurs, the player will always be in exactly the same position relative to the landmark.

In the second example, the trigger_changelevel has been triggered by something else - perhaps a button on the wall. The location of the trigger_changelevel has no bearing whatsoever on the location of the player in the next map.

By the way, the map change was triggered by a multi_manager in the previous map. There is a camera that moves through the city streets and when it's done, a trigger_changelevel is triggered by the multi_manager. Anyway, here's what I've been running into:

Well, I seem to be starting in the same location where the trigger_changelevel was in the last map. It's weird, but it's true. What I thought was the origin, was not the origin at all. Thank you for clearing up that landmark quandary up for me, though! The transitions are working, but the player cannot move at all in the next map.

Update: Put in a trigger_changelevel into the second map and stuck it out of reach for the player, to do a one-way change. Now, the player is stuck inside a bed for no conceivable reason. How lovely.

Update 2: Now I'm facing the wrong direction and stuck floating in the air...lord help me. The landmarks are named appropriately and they are in the same spot relative to the player in both maps.

Oooo...also, I noticed that many of the brushes aren't fitting on the grid in one of the maps. something got messed up. Could that have any effect?

Update 3: I ppear to be coming into the second map in the same place as the info_player_start was in the previous map. Still, unable to move.

Again I recommend making some test box levels with nothing in them, just to sort out your level change problems.

Read carefully both tutorials here on level changes: http://twhl.info/tutorial.php?id=62 and http://twhl.info/articulator.php?art=60&form=new

Thank you, I understand what's going on better now. But the character is not moving still - the chapter title is also not working, and none of the triggers that are to be fired as soon as the player hits the map are working, either. Just stuck there. I'm thinking about uploading these two maps to the problem vault if that's okay. They refer to models, sounds and textures that are new, however. So those will be missing.

Problem vault is fine, although before doing that I'd suggest stripping the maps down (or building test maps from scratch) to get one thing working at a time. 1) get level changes working, 2) get chapter title working, 3) get triggers working, etc.

If there's too many things going wrong, and your maps require a lot of custom assets, it's likely people won't go through all the trouble to help even if you use the vault. Just my thoughts.

Hell yeah! It finally works! I realized that at the same time the camera is to return to the player view, the map change occurred. I thought that there MAY be a glitch where the player was still frozen. I did some adjusting, put a fade out in the map and viola. It worked.

YEAH!
Nice work

Once again, thanks to TWHL, I have these level changes down finally. In unrelated news, I have a gargantua who is self-conscious regarding his weight. He blows a huge hole in the wall of a church, and then doesn't feel as though he can fit through. I'll be fiddling around with this for a while. probably just need to adjust the grade of the ramp in front of the church.

I've found out that if you place info_nodes here and there and at key locations, such as big hole for the garg, it actually makes it easier for your garg to go through. In most cases that is, it's still kind of depended of the size of the hole.