Dunce Americans Created 18 years ago2006-04-08 11:58:23 UTC by satchmo

not quite. the world is jelous of our success, as our average person is clearly less than perfect, yet we remain the world superpower.

And to be clear, most brilliant minds seperate themselves from politics, but in the end they vote Republican due to the economic policies. The Brilliant minds here are rich, and rich people don't want to give all their money away to people who didn't earn it.

I have no illusion that America has talented and intelligent people. After all, the country is still running. In fact, most of my friends are well-read and smart (otherwise, we wouldn't be able to have any meaningful discussion).

Just look at the members at TWHL. Some of us are Americans, and we have occasional witty things to say.

Being an immigrant, I was under the impression that majority of the people in the United States must be very well-educated and intelligent. How else did such a great nation arise from virtually nothing? I was quite disappointed when I was proven wrong.

To be fair, there are plenty of dumb people in Taiwan as well, but perhaps not as many of them as I see here.

Satchmo you were raised in taiwan? I've talked to people there, but I never really got to know what it was like. Was there any particular reason to immigrated?

The world isn't jealous of you. America can offer me nothing that I can't get here - aside from an unhealthy dose of patriotism.

The world is pissed at america because it continually takes advantage of other countries, abuses international law and ignores the UN - lets not confuse dislike for jealousy. As fast as anyone criticise america, americans tend to react with "THEY'RE JEALOUS" - I'd say that's not facing the problem.

Also, republicans are either rich, greedy capitalists with no conscience or texans with no idea what's going on (grave generalisation, but that's what I've seen so far). Not that democrats are much better. Lousy right wing...

Agreed. You're not successful, you're just bullies.

republicans are either rich, greedy capitalists with no conscience or texans with no idea what's going on

I vote Republican, and I'm a Geeky Artistic Eccentric dude who lives in Chicago.

Satchmo you were raised in taiwan? I've talked to people there, but I never really got to know what it was like. Was there any particular reason to immigrated?

I was born in Taiwan, and I stayed there until I was thirteen.

I immigrated because the educational system was too rigid and it doesn't allow independent thinking. Isn't that ironic? I came to the States for the better educational opportunity.

But the truth is that if someone is driven and intelligent in America, there are plenty of opportunity for higher education and research. That's why my family immigrated.

Before you make the move to Taiwan, I want to tell you that it's a crowded and highly polluted country. The weather sucks (wet and cold in the winder, and sweltering hot and humid in the summer). Whenever I went back to visit, I couldn't wait to return to Southern California because of the weather.

This thread actually seems to be getting better as it goes on, which is refreshing

Still some rampant generalization going on, but I think the minority American population here are used to it.

Bratty: I admire your tenacity, but we're pretty much wasting our breath trying to fight Lib concepts here. I'm loathe to admit it, but most of my friends are extreme Liberals

Our arguments become so heated that I refuse to discuss politics, W, or Michael Moore--fat, sniveling fuck --with most of them. I considering becoming a Lib for purely social reasons sometimes

But the truth is that if someone is driven and intelligent in America, there are plenty of opportunity for higher education and research. That's why my family immigrated.

I couldn't agree more. Time and time again, I've noticed how unbelievably hard first-generation immigrants work in this country. The places they come from are typically so bereft of opportunity, that the U.S. is literally "the Land Of Milk And Honey" to them.

They work hard at low paying jobs, neither call in sick nor take time off, and save their money. Then they usually buy/start their own business and become enormously successful.

Opportunity surrounds the average American in most places in the U.S., but I think a feeling of entitlement and false pride prevent most from taking advantage of it.

If you mean by 'prospering' that he's running around in a tinfoil hat attacking cars with 'satanic' license plates then I'm sure you're right.

Pwn

My parents gave up their privileged lifestyle in Taiwan to give us more opportunity. They bought a sandwich shop, which both of them worked their butts off for. They hated the job, but it paid the bills and the mortgage.

My brother and I focused on education in the mean time. They never had to tell us to work hard. We just do, knowing how much they've sacrificed.

Twenty years later, I am a doctor and my brother is the city attorney for Los Angeles. I'd say their sacrifiice was not wasted.

rich people don't want to give all their money away to people who didn't earn it.

No, selfish people don't want to help others.

self?ish P Pronunciation Key (slfsh)
adj.
Concerned chiefly or only with oneself: ?Selfish men were... trying to make capital for themselves out of the sacred cause of human rights? (Maria Weston Chapman).

For those of you who hate the U.S...why would you hate a country anyway. Because the people there have better and easier lives? We aren't doing anything that effects you, so just shut the fuck up and go back to you land of unopportunity, or you can accept the fact that you want what we have and immigrate. Sure our government may suck, but it doesn't really affect your living here that much. All of these reasons that you all say you hate the U.S are really minute, and nobody here really cares about them. Seems like other countries blow everything out of proportion. So what if we keep going to war with whoever, I still get up and eat my breakfast the same as I always do.

We aren't doing anything that effects you

So what if we keep going to war with whoever, I still get up and eat my breakfast the same as I always do.

I thought better of you.

Those soldiers who died in foreign countries will not be eating breakfast anymore. Their sons and daughters will not have a father anymore.

Who will walk them down the aisle on their wedding day?

I'm not saying that I don't care, I'm saying why would you care what happens in the US if you aren't living here. What difference does it make to complain about a country you don't live in. Seventh, what country are you from? What are we doing that affects you?

I try not to think about people dying, it brings you down emotionally, which is why I "eat my breakfast" the same way everyday, because I'm not thinking about it. Why do that? There is nothing I can do to prevent it from happening, so I just don't waste time pondering it just to make myself depressed.

I just don't understand why someone living in another country would hate us. Why huh? Answer THAT question. Give me a logical answer, WHY the fuck do you hate us. It comes down to this, our country is a great place to live, with little worries, just because you don't like your country, doesn't mean you should hate on other ones.

...

Because you don't spell "Colour" correctly. ;D

Because the US government fucks around with the world constantly.

What have they done that affects you ZL? Hmm? Don't tell me "they fuck with people" that doesn't explain anything, you're just trying to cover up your not having a logical answer.

Even though our politics do not direct affect our lives (or at least that's what it seems), it does.

It was our foreign policy that triggered Bin Laden and Al Quaeda to target the U.S. Without our meddling with the Middle East conflict, 9/11 would not have happened. Talk to those New Yorkers who lost friends and relatives. Tell them that their lives weren't affect by our politics.

We aren't going to change our governmental system from Democracy in order to suffice to Bin Laden. This is the land of the free, and we would never stoop to treat people like they do... Everyone has a say here, and thats the way it should be.

Once you let the terrorists know they can get something out of you, they will keep asking for more and more. Notice how Hitler was able to take over such a large ammount of land before Britain declared war on them...

If the powers of Europe were to engage Hitler early, instead of letting him take Chez and Poland, America might not of even had to interfer with events, as you so rudley pit it.

Why wait till Rhin, Kill the Bastard!

Ironic BL, that America is referred to as "the land of the free". Americans are losing their liberties every day, it's practicly a police state.

um... no...

(example?)

Of couse the average, retarded American, such as yourself, won't notice it

so I take it you have no evidence...

2 words, Patriot Act

I support the Partiot Act,

Yes, it does take some freedoms away from the American people, but personally I am willing to give up those freedoms in order to prevent an event like 9/11 from happening again.

Besides,
Check my Apartment, my Car,

I have nothing to hide

Guantanamo bay.
Hundreds of prisoners being kept for years without a trial or any evidence put against them, incarcerated based on loose suspicions.

"OH BUT THEY'RE TERRORISTS!!"

You're innocent until proven guilty.
Suspicion -> Evidence -> Trial -> Imprisonment, not
Suspicion -> Shit all over rights -> Torture -> Imprisonment
All hail, land of the free.

Great BL, but that's brainwashed thinking. Just because you don't have anything to hide, it doesn't mean you should be "monitored" in such a fashion. 9/11 is pure bullshit. Even if it is real (we don't want to get into conspiracy theories here), it's nothing more than a catalyst for Bush's vision to come true. A police state America.

You say that Bush is stupid,

Then you say hes behind some kind of giant consiracy theory?

if he is in fact stupid, I wouldn't find him capable of coming up with that kind of a evil conspiracy plot.

oh, and ZL,

Yes, you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but that does not prevent incarceration, just long term incarceration. Besides, it is considered a time of war in Iraq. I'd rather have someone thrown in jail who MIGHT not be a terrorists that have someone who probably is a terrorists loose on the streets. Why else would we imprison these people unless we thought it was unsafe for the citizens of Iraq?

besides, we are training their police forces as we speek, and yes, they are developing their own free government.

The terrorists have been hugely successful. Not only do they instill fear in our hearts, but they also made some of us willingly give up our rights to earn the supposed extra protection we get from Big Brother.

"V for Vandetta", anyone?

If you define "terrorists" as those who instill fear, then by that logic, the US government aren't far from being terrorists themselves. Fucking hypocrites.

besides, we are training their police forces as we speek, and yes, they are developing their own free government.

...or plunging deep into a civil war?

the US government aren't far from being terrorists themselves. Fucking hypocrites

Exactly. It's "shock and awe" for the good guys, and "mass destruction" for the bad guys.

It all depends on who you ask.

Hmm, an interesting quote came to mind, with all this America talk.
It isn't really aimed at any one, just an interesting quote I thought fitted.

"Who will watch the watchmen?"

The witchhunting in europe in the dark ages.

All you need to know, and to understand. Then you will realize that the human mind is one of the easiest parts to manipulate.

I did have a long long ranting post typed out, but when I pressed post it said "you need to be logged in to do that" which was annoying but still.

Anyway, heres a paraphrasing of the original post;

Sigh seventh... wouldnt the Oil producing countries hold power? Dont forget america always tries to help everyone.

Tell that to the thousands possibly millions of people who have died in 'America's war path' since the end of WW2. Help everyone? Oh so why arn't you guys going into samalia? Millions have died in Samalia from the two warlords battling it out, MILLIONS! Oh thats right, they dont have any oil or valuable resources, just dirt and black men with AK's.

Global conflicts and accidents we are always there. The Tsunami in Europe. We were there.

Global conflics wern't always there, only in the last few hundred years have they come up, and the USA has had its hand in 90% of them in the last 50 years. And whats this? Tsunami in Europe? What are you on about? The Tsunami happened on the other side of the planet to Europe you goon.

IRaq (I know we shouldnt be there) BUT!!!, We are spreading democracy. A philosophical belief that helps lives, and saves people.

"Spreading democracy" is just another way of saying 'Invading and occupying'. You could say Hitler was just "Spreading Nazism", its what he belives was right and best for the world. And of course, heaven forbid any country should try and impose its ways onto the cultures of others... oh, wait! ?_?

Helps lives and saves people? Tell that to the millions that have died in its name.

We dont really hold power over anyone else.

Oh no, of course, when an American soldier tells a civillian to get down on the ground and put their hands behind their head at gunpoint, they do it completly out of their free will! Because the rest of the world LOVES the USA and all want to be like it.

But lets keep this in perspective, this argument could rage on for ever. Arguing over the internet has very little point, ESPECIALLY arguments about religion and politics. Think about that before you guys post again.

I love the way people always argue their side of the case first, and then after, say that argueing on the internet is pointless and makes you look foolish.

Not really directed at Tycell, he just reminded me of it ;D

Yeah, I think my connection to the site must be dodgey or somthing, when I posted that (5 minuets ago) there was only one page, clearly I needed to refresh. Didnt mean to dig up the old argument again but I just HAD to get my view accross

Seventh: I am with you all the way on the ID Database.

... but that does not prevent incarceration, just long term incarceration.

I'd say more than a year counts as long term incarceration. Read up on it.

I'd rather have someone thrown in jail who MIGHT not be a terrorists that have someone who probably is a terrorists loose on the streets.

Apply that way of thought in the US and throw all middle-eastern people in jail, why don't you? You can't possibly defend the imprisonment of hundreds of people from all over the world (not just iraq, mind you) with "they might be terrorists" - everyone might be terrorists.

Why else would we imprison these people...

Because they threaten american interests in one way or another, passively or actively. Or, they might just have the wrong name, or they were in the wrong place in the wrong time.
If there was actual proof these men were terrorists, the US should take them to trial, not throw them in a P.o.W. camp on cuba.

Seventh, what country are you from? What are we doing that affects you?

England, and if your government hadn't decided to invade Iraq, I think it's pretty unlikely that we'd have loads of troops being shot to pieces there.

Yes, it does take some freedoms away from the American people, but personally I am willing to give up those freedoms in order to prevent an event like 9/11 from happening again.

Besides,
Check my Apartment, my Car,

I have nothing to hide

Good God, you actually believe that? You brag of living in the land of the free, yet will instantly give up any freedom asked of you because of the over-hyped actions of terrorists? News for you: the terrorists are winning, then. You are giving in. Surrendering the freedoms you claim to hold so dear.

I'd rather have someone thrown in jail who MIGHT not be a terrorists that have someone who probably is a terrorists loose on the streets.

Not in a malicious way, although it probably sounds it (this is more directed at all people of your mindeset rather than you particularly): I wish you were imprisoned without charge or trial for a year or two. If that happened to everyone with this absolutely incredible "the government is always right" attitude, the world would be a safer, or at least better, place.

I'd rather have someone thrown in jail who MIGHT not be a terrorists that have someone who probably is a terrorists loose on the streets.

I'd rather be murdered by some lunatic than live in or in any way support a society which imprisoned people at the whim of the police, or even worse, politicians.

I did have a long long ranting post typed out, but when I pressed post it said "you need to be logged in to do that" which was annoying but still.

That's why I copy and paste what I typed before hitting "Post". In case TWHL conks out on me, I'll have the post stored in the clipboard.

I think its hard for people here to remember that its not the cumalitive mass of the country making decisions to war, or impose our beliefs, but the government.

"Countries do not fight, governments in power currently do"

Every country has made their share of fuckin dumb ass mistakes. England is FULL OF THEM. If you seriously want some examples I would be happy to give them. The point Im making here is that no country is perfect. Every country has its major problems. Dont forget, all your countries started with a ruler in absolute power. We started with democracy, the most logical way to govern. I mean, why the hell does Britian still have a king/queen? They take from your taxes and sit on their ass all day. They are a relic of history from a darker age. There is no tradition there. They were invented by rich nobles looking to control peasants. FOOLISH!

America really isnt in decline. We do have dept, but so does every other country. France and Germany are still in dept to us from WW1! Theres no point bringing up these stupid little things from the past.

It seems humanity needs something to hate. Without it, there is something lacking in their lives. They ignore reason and logic to contiue the hate cycle.

People around the world are all the same. The only way to understand someone is to live with them. Thats impossible, but I tell you, stop envisioning America is evil different non-humans. We are all the same. Were not a different race, or live differently. We come from all over the world. We live like everyone else.

I think its hard for people here to remember that its not the cumalitive mass of the country making decisions to war, or impose our beliefs, but the government.

Yeah, but americans actually vote for war-mongering republicans.

Crush the monarchy!

How else did such a great nation arise from virtually nothing? I was quite disappointed when I was proven wrong.

-satch "the mo" mo
Belated, but LOL!

Anyone who knows about fighting a resistance or even history can explain it:
99% of people dont care....
when 51% get pissed off, then you start your revolution. Then you promise whatever THEY want. Then you establish your own government. I'm sure the Boston Tea party wasn't made by "Tetley's Gaffer":D

Vox: I can understand why you are reacting the way you are. I feel much the same way, but try not to take these inflammatory remarks too personally. Keep in mind everyone is pissed with America, and have been for a long time, so anything new that happens is just icing on the cake for them

Americans are losing their liberties every day, it's practicly a police state.

The biggest load of bullshit I've heard yet.

Where else but America do convicted murderers sit on "Death Row" for years and years, appeal after appeal.

I can buy any assault weapon I want, and since The Republicans repealed the assault weapon's ban, I can legally buy clips any size. What sort of police state allows you to own military-grade weapons ffs?!

Besides the indiscretions of a few guards, our prisons, incuding "Gitmo" and Abu Ghurayb treat there prisoners better than most in this world, I would say.

Of course there are people in those prisons, and in every prison that are not guilty. Since the beginning of civilizaition, I would gather unfortunate souls have been falsely accused, imprisoned, and put to death. Ours and no other Criminal Justice system will ever be perfect, but we do the best we can.

If your not a fucking terrorist, you have nothing to fear from the Patriot Act. Profiling? Hell yes I'm all for profiling. When little old ladies start hijacking airplanes, then you'll have an argument there.

Surrendering the freedoms you claim to hold so dear.

Really Alex, what are you on about. What liberties have I sacrificed due to the terrorists? I live exactly the way I did 10 years ago. If I'm not a terrorist, tell me what I have to fear?

You want to talk about police states, you need look no further than your own country. There are more surveilance cameras in London than any city in the world. You can't own a gun for personal protection, and hunting is pretty restricted from what I gather. Do they let you change your undergarments there without someone watching?

First off, let me say I am not a repulican, a democrat, a facist... ect ect. I firmly believe that no matter who we elect as president,
nothing will change.
I tend to think for myself, I resist being labeled. America is run by the wealthy; the government is there for show. I believe we are in Iraq because of a personal vendetta
and control of oil. Bush is a puppet. He does not care about what the people of this country (or any one else for that matter) thinks as long as it serves his interests.
I personally believe that education in America sucks unless you have money or are athletic. My high school was a joke. I saw two people beating the shit out of each other in a hall way,
and the principal ignored then to punish a friend of mine for drinking milk in the hall.
I am not trying to bring up conspiricy theories here either. On 9/11, I was mad that lives were lost. If we lose the lables that are pounded into our head, and see each other as human beings,we
would be better off. I may not make much sense here, I am tired. Hate me if you want, I don't care. I live in the USA, and I can't change that. But if you hate me because of my location on the planet,
that's just stupid. I know this post bounces around, sorry!

America is run by the wealthy

Um, pretty much every country is run by the wealthy--they're the only ones who can afford to lobby for themselves and campaign!

You have touched on an important issue though, and that's our system of election. Common men, with no allegiance to anyone but the people, should be able to run and win. Unfortunately, that just isn't the way it is at present.

Bush and Kerry have more in common with each other than 99% of the rest of America has with either of them. The way it is now, you just try to pick the lesser of two evils.

Well, I'm glad part of my post made sense! however, we have no way of changing the system. Look at the people who told us to love one another and live in harmony. They are dead. Marten Luther King, JFK, the list goes on.

I can buy any assault weapon I want, and since The Republicans repealed the assault weapon's ban, I can legally buy clips any size. What sort of police state allows you to own military-grade weapons ffs?!

Wow, I see you and your country have your priorities right. Everything's fine as long as you can own a gun, eh?

You trust a load of greedy, rich, power-crazed, lying politicians more than the people around you? Paranoid idiot.

you need an automatic rifle to take down todays breeds of super-deer

Wow Seventh, I'm shocked by how obtuse you can be when you choose to. It's not about guns, it's about rights. But you'd rather keep generalizing, maintaining the status quo, right?

The fact is we have more rights than you do but you claim we're giving up our liberties everyday. Rather than calling me a "paranoid idiot", why don't you respond to some of my counterpoints to your ridiculous/baseless statements.

Jobabob: It's called sport shooting. Again, the point is not the guns, it's the right to own the gun if I so choose too that's important.