Dunce Americans Created 18 years ago2006-04-08 11:58:23 UTC by satchmo

I really dont care about your little "fun" facts about some other countries

Since when is correct, reliable proof a fun-fact?

Thanks for proving me right ZL. Alot here has been said to prove America is not stupid, and is great. People here cant accept that, and keep finding more and more faults. Nit-picking every little incident America has been involved in. You really havnt seen Americans here doing that to other countries. It would be nice to have someone admit their views were not entirely correct. Yes we have problems, but so do ALL of you! Alot of people here HATE what we did in Vietnam, and Iraq. The people have nothing to do with this. Its the government. Now, the government does take care of its people, so its not completely flawed.

I apologize for my arrogant rantings, but dont you think it was justified? I mean everyone has pride for the country they were born and raised in correct? It gets hard not to say anything when everyone here keeps bringing up more and more against the land I was born in and took care of me.

Yeah! We never rant about other countries and how crappy they are! Our country supplies many 3rd world countries with food, clothes, shoes etc. so they can survive. Do any of your countries spend billions of dollars doing that?

Now you have to admit, Ive said alot here, and took back some of it after reading some of your responses. Im willing to accept certain truths, and that I was wrong on some issues. None of you have done that. I respect people more when they are willing to accept their faults, then someone filled with arrogance.

I am not sure whether I would become a doctor if I had stayed in Taiwan. Sure, I wouldn't be any more stupid, but the path to higher learning is treacherous in Taiwan. I still remember that I was punished for getting the highest score in my math class in Taiwan. I was physically beaten because I missed a single question.

It gets worse. We used to fear arts and craft classes because there are all these materials we had to bring to class to make our crafts. And you know how eight year olds are. There are lots of things that make us forget to bring one item out of the twenty things we're suppose to garner. So if the art class is in the fifth period, all the people who forget at least one thing for their art class would be rummaging through the school trash collection to search for that missing piece.

And most of us would fail to come up with it by the class time. So for the rest of the day until art class, we would live in fear, unable to concentrate on our other (and perhaps more important) core classes. All of us who fail to gather all the raw materials would be physically beaten.

The teachers routinely get a brand new bamboo rod each month, because the old one would be totally ruined by the end of the month. That's how hard and how much the weapon of mass destruction was being used.

One of my cousin committed suicide because he couldn't take the academic pressure and the unreasonable parental expectation. When my parents heard of his suicide, they were so glad that they made the move to immigrate to the States.

That's the kind of environment I was brought up in. No wonder I thought the U.S. school system was heaven when I first got here. For the first time, I enjoyed learning. I no longer live in fear when I go to school, and I loved my art history class!

By the time I got to the university, most the dim-wits were weeded out of the system (or they went to community college). I went to UCLA, a respectable school. It was such a pleasure to be in the company of intelligent and interesting individuals.

And this thread alone proves that there are plenty of insightful and strongly-opinionated young people in this world still. Right or wrong, we can carry on a discussion. Even though the discussion itself is degenerating into a series of ad hominem and political extremism, it still has many sensible arguments and intelligent thinking.

There is hope in humanity after all. For an illiterate immigrant who came to this country and became a doctor, I am indebted to the opportunity it provided. Why the sudden change of tone? Because the discussion has strayed from my original intention.

I wanted a wake-up call, not a massive defamation. Our country has a lot of problems to fix, and I am hoping it's not too late to address these issues. But for anyone who is willing to work hard, this is still the land of opportunity. People can achieve great things in this country that wouldn't be possible anywhere else in the world.

Xyos, you're full of bullshit and it's unfortunate that VOX is feeling patriotic today and is listening to some of your opinions. Face it, the US is a big bloated super-power too arrogant to admit that it no longer has the power that it used to. The US has never been smart, it's survived solely on quantity not quality.

Our country supplies many 3rd world countries with food, clothes, shoes etc. so they can survive. Do any of your countries spend billions of dollars doing that?

Actually proportionally, the US gives very little compared to the massive wealth it has gained from bullying those poor countries.

fourthgen, you know NOTHING! Our wealth was set in motion by supplying war munitions and supplies to France, Britain, and Germany during WW1.

Quanity, not Quality?: Do you know anything of our accomplishments? Math, science, architexture, etc ETC! OMG YOUR A FUCKIN MORON! YOUR SO IGNORANT I DONT KNOW WHAT TO SAY1!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111111111

We DONT BULLY ANY COUNTRIES! YOU ARE SO STUPID, THAT I THINK I JUST WENT BLIND, DEATH, and hurled all at once!!!! ZOMG!!!

After the reply you just gave I'm not sure I really need to say much. Any sensible person looking at that would immediately realise you're a dumbass.

Satchmo, your story is incredible, honestly, it could be a book.
Obviously you're not still illiterate but still, you seem like an amazingly opinionated and interesting person. The US of A is lucky to have you

As far as I'm concerned, you are both dumbasses.

Yeah last night i was feeling patriotic, which is a rarity Considering this country has it's problems, it still is one of the best places in the world to live and I'm lucky to be here.

Man satchmo you should write a book sometime. Your story is amazing.

I am already writing a book, but it's non-fiction. It's a book that dispells myths in pediatrics.

Perhaps if I become a successful author after my current book is published, I'll write another one on my immigrant experience.

I'd buy it.

can we get back to talking about why the gays should be stoned and darwin was a crazy beardy man with rediculous aethiest theories please

Though I have to admit that my immigrant story is far from being the most compelling.

I know a fellow student in medical school who is blind in one eye. He made it here from Vietnam with his mother and three sisters when he was three years old. They sailed all the way across the Pacific Ocean to California. His older sister died during the trip. They had no money when they arrived in Southern California as refugees.

Now, his family boasts one doctor, one engineer, and a lawyer. We'll never know what the dead sister might have become.

Xyos, do you believe anyone will ever take you serious? Dont think so eh...

Interesting story satch.

Jobabob. Darwin!one!11!!1 Triple evolution to teh win!

Freedom must be absolute. No exceptions.

'Let the phedophiles, rapists and murderers go free! Order is no way to run anything, everyone should be allowed to do absolutly whatever they want!'

Although I can see the point you are making, freedom should NEVER be absolute, and thats a fact of life, not a belife. Everything needs restrictions, if nothing is restricted then things are going to go the way of the Dodo very quickly no matter what it is.

Xyos212: I can see you have a lot of faith in your country and that is not a bad thing, you have to look past this and try and recognise the points others are making and the reasons they are saying the things they are. Not everyone is jelous of the USA, I love my country, but I accept that our countries leader is an absolute fucking idiot who is joining in with the US in bullying other countries to profit our one is totally wrong.

Whats more, you talk of illigal immigrants, look at my city. The leading taxi company is called Taxi Fast, the guy who owns taxi fast has an agents in the Checz republic and in Poland and so on, he can train foreigners to drive dirt cheap, fly them over here, give them accomidation to rent, from him, charge them to hire a car and then set them to work in his taxi firm, from which he also charges them for the office rent.

This is putting a LOT of people out of work and turning a lot of the countries population into racists, why give somone in your own country a job when you can bring in a foreigner and make four times as much money. A lot of people are getting very angry about this because its not just happening in this one taxi firm. Factorys, markets, even chains of shops and call centers are brining in labour from abroad to make money. The USA certainly isnt the only country with problems.

However, in a lot of countries the USA IS the main problem. Do you know what most of the middle east did when they heard about 9/11? They ran into the streets and they danced because they hate the USA with a passion for all the death and distruction it has caused them. I think that in itself speaks leauges about a country, when multiple cultures rejoice in its misfortune.

I am already writing a book, but it's non-fiction. It's a book that dispells myths in pediatrics.

Like kids with big heads fall over a lot?

I refer you back to my earlier point: you can't exactly see your own faults if you've been brought up in that type of society. We can, and boy, it's horrible. From this thread, I've seen countless statistics, all of which have been retorted rather badly. I've seen passionate posts from Satchmo, Alex, Elof (and me, teehee) and I've seen nothing from the opposition.

Basically, you've all too proud to even read what we're typing.

I feel the same way about your argument Ant.

Explain to me how my arguement applies to what I said above. I'm too proud to admit that America is A-OK? I'm sorry, but as someone who has had instances of American culture thrown at him (corporate greed, the influence of Western Culture, the fact that our Government seems to want to follows yours all the time) I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the huge overbearing force that America seems to instill over the world.

im not going to read all the pages of posts that i've missed in this thread, but since the last time i posted and now it appears we've got nowhere.

So you know... What the fuck...

Are the Americans of TWHL still too fucking dense to accept that their country is a bully and that large percentages of the population are only just smart enough to work the microwave?

Basically, you've all too proud to even read what we're typing.

Yep, that somes it up nicely..

MAybe you should read whats been posted here Hunter.

Im tired of this bickering. This kind of forum use should be applied to helping others map, mod, etc. Lock this thread, and keep any political/religious topics out!

No. This is a General Discussion forum and it does not breach any rules. So basically you're trying to impose that other members here do not have the liberties of free speech. How ironic.

Wow Ant good job turning everything I say to an attack.........

I am an American of the U.S. I dissagree with the total bullshit others have been saying. Yes, theres a lot of dumb people in america, but have you checked your country? I bet there are a lot of dumb people in your country too.

Half the people arguing about how "the U.S gives money to other countries!", "My country does more", "U.S is a bully", blah blah blah. No, U.S's LEADERS do all that! We shouldn't be grouped with them! Yes, you might think U.S is mean, No the Leaders of the country do all that stuff you might think is mean, which is about less than 1% of the population.

"The U.S population is stupid!"
As I mentioned above, there are a lot of stupid people in U.S. But check your country, I bet theres a lot of stupid people there too. Besides, how would you know the the population is stupid? TV, magazines? You can't trust them! They just ask random people off the side of the street in cities questions (like the show mentioned at the begining). Not a good thing to do! In U.S the streets (especially in cities) are not a good place to ask questions! In U.S lots of very uneducated people walk the street.

All the countries are pretty much the same. They have smart people, they have uneducated people. They have mean people, they have nice people. They have uncaring people, they have loving people. I admit, some people in U.S (but not many at all) hate other countries. But also, some people in your country hate other countries too!

People hate the U.S because they think it's powerful, or tries to be powerful. That might be true...but thats not 99.whatever% of the populations control. Again, That's our LEADERS.

Why can't we just stop all this arguing?!

Oh, and think we shouldn't be invading Iraq? We're helping them! We're also taking in people for questioning that have past records and such, I don't think we're really hurting them! We're doing this to keep from having another 9/11. Think 9/11 is fake, made by Bush? Your probably on massive drugs, or just plain insane. completely insane. Haven't you seen the captured videos of 9/11?

The Iraqi war is completely unjustified, considering the US was using its spin doctors to claim that Osama Bin Laden was the mastermind behind 9/11. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Afghanistan is anywhere near Iraq. And did the US Weapon Inspectors find weapons of mass distruction? I think not.

9/11 scares me, simply because all the conspiracy stories around it seem highly plausible. It all comes down to the fact that war = money.

Iraq is close to Afghanistan.

We are in Iraq for oil. Our government thinks we can "change the iraqis for the better. Democracy!!" What we really are doing is preparing to control them so we can control their oil. Another reason why I hate our country. We are using up our PLANET'S recources by driving FUCKING HUMMERS? Why the FUCK would ANYONE want to drive a vehicle that gets 4 miles to the gallon? SUV'S? WTF?! The gas mileage of the vehicles americans drive is obscene. That's why I stick with cars that have a minimum of 30+ mpg, or I ride a bike. Bullshit. I take back everything I said before about the US besides it being a nice place to live. We suck.

VOX: Precisely. It's essentially extortion. Why do you think we have no other means of fueling our cars? It's because everytime a new method is created, it's bought by the big Petrol companies!

Ant, petrol is still the worlds most efficent fuel.

efficient, but not good for the environment

Be that as it may, the fact that the development of other methods are being stifled by the companies is the point I'm raising.

The US isn't helping Iraq, halo4life. They are taking it by force and torturing it's civilians. America is a giant fucking bully and needs to have it's ass kicked in.

Just wait when the planet runs out of oil.

All hell is going to break loose.

Hopefully we'll be dead by then.

Ok, I'm a fuckin idiot. I was just giving my opinion. My example was not the greatest, I admit. I was using a personal experience in school as an example. I can come up with many more examples, but why bother. I will not lower myself to personal attacks.

(sorry in advance for stupid spelling errors, this keyboard has hard keys =/)

I refer you back to my earlier point: you can't exactly see your own faults if you've been brought up in that type of society. We can, and boy, it's horrible. From this thread, I've seen countless statistics, all of which have been retorted rather badly. I've seen passionate posts from Satchmo, Alex, Elof (and me, teehee) and I've seen nothing from the opposition.

True. From someone who's lived in the US for his entire life, I definitely can't recognize our faults and identify them. I don't exactly like to pick them out in other countries, either, although I know many people who like to express...disapproval of many of the world's other countries (with stupid and stereotypical views which are obviously false.) On the flip side, though, you have to realize that a lot of the faults directed at us from other countries are sometimes stereotypical as well. (ie, all Americans are fat and stupid and republicans.) There's a lot of liberal Americans these days, and they're intelligent. There's a lot of nice Americans. We (as people, anyway) aren't terribly different from the UK or Australia, I suppose. It's all in the governments and political views.

The world is revolving around fear these days. It's quite sad that there's a lot of people who can't see through it. The ones who actively debate and question policy and what the government says are labeled terrorists or threats to national security. It's almost like 1984. It's scary. There's no such thing as true free speech anymore. Sure, you can disagree with policy and laws but they don't care about that. It's all in the bigger picture.

Mass media is part of the problem. If you repeat the same thing over and over, get a staged "expert" on a subject to talk about how serious things are getting, and how problematic something is, and you just go on and on and on people get almost brainwashed. For example, if you read the newspaper (at least my local newspaper, the Denver Post) there's usually just bad news every day. Two children gunned down in a mistargeted gang attack, a hit-and-run, a murder-suicide. If you devote a fair portion of a page to the details and only print news of that nature you're pretty much making it seem like everything's bad and there's gangs killing kids everywhere and you shouldn't cross the street because you'll get hit or blah blah blah. This scares people! What they don't realize is that it's a very small percentage of a population, and it's inevitable. Crime will never truly be eradicated. In fact the crime rate in the US has been consistently dropping since the 1990's, yet mass-media seems to make us think that every day more and more people are getting killed.

Just goes to show you what the media and government are capable of doing with technology.

anything else in my post (besides esducation) that makes me an idiot?

No the Leaders of the country do all that stuff you might think is mean, which is about less than 1% of the population.

Yeah, it's not as if they were duly elected by the populace, eh? It's a pretty critical point.

We're doing this to keep from having another 9/11.

Oh yeah! That's right, because Iraq, with its six .22 bullets and air balloon, was going to launch a massive terrorist attack on the U.S., as a state! Stop it. As a country, you murder eight times as many American civilians every year than the events of September the 11th. Maybe you're the terrorist state?

I take back everything I said before about the US besides it being a nice place to live. We suck.

That was a rather sudden change of an opinion? You're quite the environmentalist, then?

9/11 scares me, simply because all the conspiracy stories around it seem highly plausible. It all comes down to the fact that war = money.

It scares me on the grounds that the majority of the American public are now willing to do anything that Bush and his cronies decide is good for them just as long as they mention the words "security" and "terrorism" in a sentence. What next, "Mah fellow merkins: to protect our great nation, it is clearly our sad duty in the eyes of god to remove all middle-eastern people from this Earth as they are harbouring terrorists."?

On the flip side, though, you have to realize that a lot of the faults directed at us from other countries are sometimes stereotypical as well. (ie, all Americans are fat and stupid and republicans.) There's a lot of liberal Americans these days, and they're intelligent. There's a lot of nice Americans. We (as people, anyway) aren't terribly different from the UK or Australia, I suppose. It's all in the governments and political views.

I don't think anyone who is setting forth these stereotypes against you really needs a response. Nobody who is actually interested in the discussion would post it. I think a lot of people think of the Americans a generally a friendly bunch. I do.

So do I. Those stereotypes (although being funny for the most part) are clearly untrue. I mean, look at Spence: he's a sex machine!

We've had these sort of threads before and I'm sure we'll have them again.

On many issues, I'm sure we will never agree, and that's ok, because at the end of the day, this is all a great exercise.

From time to time, tempers will flare and so will the subsequent flaming. Remember though, that your remarks/exchanges made in anger generally just widen the gap between us, and make it harder to come to any sort of good end.

I admire many people in this thread for if nothing else attempting to go against the majority popular opinion, and not just "curtseying" to the powers that be. It takes a measure of courage and possibly sacrificing friendships doing this, whilst many here are content to simply "follow the train". Bravo to you

Satchmo: My respect for you has increased 10-fold since the beginning of this thread. If you write an autobiography, it will be a huge success

This creation of yours has been so far and unpredictable roller coaster of adventure! Where will it take us next, nobody knows...

Ant/Seventh: Two people I respect greatly that have had more than your fair share of outright flaming in this thread, imo. First of all, your are mods, so you should take a more neutral position if these kinds of debates, or at the very least be a bit more subtle imo.

Let me tell you first-hand, that you're never going to convince any westerners of anything as long as you stick to your current method of pissing on, deriding, and otherwise pidgeonholing all americans into one lot.

I'm not saying you have to agree with everything I have to say, and you better believe I'm not going to agree with everything you say, but this sensless bickering is pointless.

Ant: One thing that you've said that I agree with 100% is that it's always harder, if not impossible to see yourself, your nation, your work with an unbiased point-of-view, or from the "ousisde". Please keep in mind though, this is a two-way street

Seventh: You are for all intent and purpose the leader of this whole grand and beloved place we call TWHL. Would you not agree a little impartiality might be appropriate? I have the greatest respect for you and the amount of work you pour into this site. Your outright anger towards Americans is almost too much for me to bare sometimes, and it feels like you have a split personality of sorts. On that, I suppose we all do to some degree, plus good and bad days, and whatever, but I think a little less caustic attitude towards your brothers to the west, would be widely a good thing. <rowleybob has a good cry, lights some candels, and starts writing poetry>

ZombieLoffe: Although I don't agree with many of your interpretations, and conclusions, you have been one of the few calm voices of reason in this, and many other threads. You bring hard facts to the table when you're making/defending a point, and mostly always do an outsanding job at it. Your a rare type make it possible for any sort of rational dialogue to begin.

I'm personally guilty of my share of flaming and outrageous remarks in this thread, but I would say a majority of the time I'm very serious about my claims/response. I'm not trying to be undually crass or evil, nor do look at myself or my country as so.

Contrary to what some people think, I'm not trying to cause unnecessary strife and division in a thread that's already full of those, but most of the time I'm just trying to explain my point-of-view, honestly.

I suppose some posts that I regard as flaming are actually the same thing, but one thing's for certain: I think we all need to try harder to understand each other, and not be so quick to attack.

I mean, most of us have spent a lot of time here together at TWHL. I would regard most people here, and everyone listed above as friends--albeit Internet friends--, if not really good ones.

Let me tell you first-hand, that you're never going to convince any westerners of anything as long as you stick to your current method of pissing on, deriding, and otherwise pidgeonholing all americans into one lot.

Please don't interpret my comments as genuinely reflecting upon all Americans, as I've said. Less agressive and unpleasant American actions are, though, of course, more publicised (as they are for all countries). I'm well aware that the United States is an extremely diverse country, and would never try to group its entire population into one category.

I don't really care whether somebody is American or not. I dislike blind patriotism and reactionary attitudes regardless of nationality. It just so happens that the American's such attitudes are far more influential on the world than, say, the same attitudes in Eritrea or Belarus. Your country is going to be criticised more than most because it has a greater impact on the world.

Anyway, I carry no emotion from this thread to the outside site, if that satisfies you on the neutrality front :).

Anyway, I carry no emotion from this thread to the outside site, if that satisfies you on the neutrality front

It does, and I suppose I should try harder to do the same

That's what I like about these threads, they don't have anything to do with anything once you go back to the real site.

As for being american, I am both happy and sorry I was born here. I'm happy because it's easy as shit to survive in the US, but I'm sorry for the same reason. I don't have a very good work ethic, which I wish I did, and I procrastinate, and I don't concentrate very hard at school. If I were born in another (not like iraq or the congo or something hehe) country I wouldn't have these problems most likely.

Seventh: Yeah I changed my opinion because when people start flaming my country I get a little defensive, but now that I think about it, you other nations have all the right in the world to hate us, to an extent.

You've gotta learn to disconnect "your country" (mostly your rulers) with "your people" (er, your people). That seems to be the most common reason for people getting crazy :D.

Oh, I have absolutely no problem with the people. Every country has their psycho's and whatnot. I just hate your administration. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Australia or any country is perfect (hell, why we went into Iraq is beyond my comprehension).

Same go's up for me.

It scares me on the grounds that the majority of the American public are now willing to do anything that Bush and his cronies decide is good for them just as long as they mention the words "security" and "terrorism" in a sentence. What next, "Mah fellow merkins: to protect our great nation, it is clearly our sad duty in the eyes of god to remove all middle-eastern people from this Earth as they are harbouring terrorists."?

not true. that only happened for about a year after 911, and it was fading even then. bush shouldn't be in office. kerry shouldn't be in office. Gore shouldn't be in office. all the people who have been viying for the preidency over the last 6 years have all been fuck dumb. although im sure in the rest of the world you guys don't really here about the people who don't make it.

We're not bullying anyone in Iraq. were keeping the peace. we went in for no reason other then oil but all the americans fighting their are fighting for Iraqi freedom and their paycheck. the business men who conviced the administration to send them in are the ones who want the oil. and those business men incluse non americans as well. were not solely to blame.

and seventh, you bring up the point of separation. you should really separate the country from the rulers from the people. the people live in the country and elect the rulers. the rulers control the country and munipulate the people, and the country just trys to prosper by any means nesisary.

look at how much your own rulers are hiding from you and how there manipulating you. and really look.

I'm pretty sure everyone here knows who Al Gore and John Kerry is. I rooted for them both simply because Bush was worse, more so in the 2004 election than the 2000.

Let me clarify this: I don't hate the American people. I hate the choices the American government does and I'm worried that people are actually voting for Bush.

I'm not saying my government is the best in the world, and I'm sure there are a hell of a lot that could be done better (especially if the righties didn't have anything to say about it), but in my eyes they appear better than the US administration. That's my opinion, anyway.