Religion. Created 17 years ago2006-08-03 16:36:41 UTC by ZombieLoffe

And it's true, too.

WIN!

WHat a dumb topic. Shouldnt you give some reasons to "debunk" all religion? Keep it clean and logical, and not just some dumb childish yell?

I dont take sides, I just like seeing fair and balanced discussions without bigot remarks towards the other side..............

List all the reasons why, then Ill condone this thread.

Next time when your bored go map, instead of this.........

And it's true, too.

I don't want to debunk religion. I just don't like it.

It's made up so people won't be so afraid when they die. There is no after-life... face it. I think it's stupid (hence: picture) to believe in some man in the sky just because you don't like the thought of not having anything to do when you die.

Halo4life: When you die, your consiousness will end.

I can appreciate the science and logic to anti-religion, but I do believe the subject should always be approached with respect and caution. Millions of people believe in a God/Gods around the world. They do so deeply that some would give their lives for it. Unfortunately its a no-win situation, since no side can clearly define the truth. What a man believes does not define him as a person. Its pointless to argue anyway, since almost all religious followers are extremly stubborn when it comes to their beliefs.

Maybe God is a super intelligent alien race which seeded Earth with its DNA and has been using us as lab rats. (Highly unlikely But who really knows, eh?)

Who knows. The only way to find out is to discover advanced warp technology and fly to the center of the Galaxy and see who or what (or nothing) is there

A lot of people don't like religion but they don't make a thread about it.
Religion should be something strictly individual.

Of course, we have freedom of speech. But the question is: What is accomplished with the post? Was it seeking agreement, a debate, hurting the feelings of those who might belong to one of those 3 communities?

I like poptarts, too.

What about my religion?

Did somebody forget the Rastafarians?

Fuckin' bitches.

ZL ftw!

Ive heard "ftw" so much here at TWHL I think the site should be called Hammer ftw!

Loffe: How do you know that there is no afterlife? You don't have any fact-based argument. Neither have I.

---

-But, religion is based on faith, faith in both good and bad. And it's been proven that if you have faith you can survive a lot more. Ok, maybe not survive, but making it easier for you if you get cancer or something like that. Faith also makes you feel better when bad stuff is happening. And if you belive that there is a good guy up there watching your back it sure makes life a little more easy, am i right?

And what is so wrong with having faith? Does it make you grumpy that some people have hope for something good in death?

But there are many downers with religion aswell, some people use it as a threat to make kids behave or the devil will take them, that's just pure bullshit. And some use it to create war, but we all know that it's not the religion that does it, they blame it on the religion, that god spoke to them so that they will have the people on their side. But the people don't have much of a choice anyhow, do they?

Im a christian, not that kind you see in church. I read the bible and created my own belief, based on my own interpretation of it.

But im not a big fan of religious people, i hate people that live their lives by their belief insted of letting their belief be a part of they way they always lived. People that use religion as politics or moral standing points. It just makes me sick.

And another thing that makes me sick is the people who hate religion only because they don't believ in it. They have no right what so ever to throw shit at religious people.

But one thing i hope we all are against, using religion in child raising and politics?

And if it ever again comes a nice guy that cures people from various diseases, think twice before you nail him to a stick.

thank you.

ah, another one
I'm religous. It is indeed an individual characteristic on our beliefs.
But when people make sub-par opinions toward religion when they have never even experienced the religion or can even disprove the religion is quite sad. You think in logical terms, but can you disprove it and prove your sayings?
Until religions are disproven by science which is unlikely, religion will always be a part of human culture.

EDIT: after reading Tosse's comment

About religion used on children. That responsibility is not the childs but the parents. I'm Christian and that and I've read the bible and made my own interpretations too.

I don't think using religion towards children is wrong. Children don't know any better. There's nothign with a family trying to do what's right for the child. They are definitly not trying to hurt the child but it's their job to influence the child so that when they grow up, they can make a completely reasonable decision on their religion. Until, your 18 and you can leave the house, you'll have to follow the rules of your parents. If religion falls into, I'm pretty sure you can bite your tounge and show them respect not to talk back and when your out on your own you can start making those decisions

Tosse! so true!
You're totaly right. I say: You can't justifiably hate either side because you can't prove either is right. There is no 100% solid proof of the Big-Bang, there is no 100% solid proof that Jesus walked the earth. In my opinion, being an agnostic, I believe in the Big-Bang, however I dont immediately say 'there is no god' because we cannot prove or disprove either view.

And you're statement of hating the use of religion in politics is also true. Look at the outlawing of gay mairage that President Bush is trying to put into effect: "Mairage is the bonding of a man and a woman" and yet, it says right in the constitution that there should be sepparation in the power of church and state.

So what I'm saying is, can't we all just get along?

/rant

100% proof that there is no afterlife?

guuuh, brain activity shuts down upon death.. Dead is dead.

Hunter: afterlife doesn?t include the body, you obviously doesn?t know a lot about religion so this is not your area to speak in.

These kind of threads lead to nowhere. I say close it, and make something which one side actually has a chance at getting the final word, and proving something.

What is accomplished with the post? Was it seeking agreement, a debate, hurting the feelings of those who might belong to one of those 3 communities?

Well, primarily, I laughed out loud at the picture when I first saw it and felt the immediate urge to share it with my atheist friends.

Secondly, I wanted to start a debate. A rather harsh approach, I admit, but it works to get discussion going.

Third, I like mocking people. Does that make me a bad person?
Yes, yes it does. But that's just who I am.

Now for my opinions.
I feel that people can believe whatever rubbish they want, but they really should keep it to themselves. When religion goes out of hand we've got crusades and jihads and god (?) knows what.

I think it's wrong to make ones child believe in a certain religion. He or she should be able to make up their own mind in due time about what to believe in. You can inform the child of your own beliefs, but telling them that God does exist and we should worship him as a rule is just... manipulation. Same goes for political ideologies and such opinions.

Yes, religion probably will linger on, and will always be an issue of debate. When people believe different things, they're bound to argue with eachother.

As for proof of one side or another... I'd say "science" has more "proof" than "religion" that there is "evolution" and "natural selection" - not a man in the sky who created the earth 5000 years ago and made women out of man's rib.

Loffe: If you think that one should keep the religious beliefs to themselfs, why did you post that picture?

Cause I'm a contradicting hypocrite asshole and I like to provoke.

I think it's wrong to make ones child believe in a certain religion. He or she should be able to make up their own mind in due time about what to believe in.

I couldn't agree more. I know of a few people who have been unknowingly forced. They say it's their religion and the one they'd choose but it's clear they've been brainwashed from infancy. I even know of a 16 year-old who has never sworn in his life (or so he says), because he believes it is a sin. He even chooses to hang around with his Christian friends over atheists, and is encouraged by his parents to do so :/

Come to think of it, this guy is quite the sad brainwashed asshole.

Keep the atheist banner going Loffe!

My school repeatedly tries to shove Christianity down my throat.

fuck them

I think it's wrong to make ones child believe in a certain religion. He or she should be able to make up their own mind in due time about what to believe in.

Precisely what I plan to do. And if my wife disagrees...

[sarcasm]And I think it's wrong to make a child believe in Santa Claus, and it's wrong to force a child to learn a language, live in a city or belong to a certain country until they are 18 years old.
Let's not forget, parents should have the right to decide to have or terminate a child they have just conceived, but they should never ever push religion on them. Why educate your child with your beliefs when you have cable TV?[/sarcasm]

Something tells me that a belief in Santa Claus does not greatly affect their life once they hit 12-13, or even younger.

Secondly, you don't need Religion to teach about ethics.

I hearby denounce any and all involvement in this thread from now on. They always dissolve into people being pretty damned stupid because they can't accept others viewpoints. Who gives a flying duck is what I say!

I think it's wrong to make ones child believe in a certain religion. He or she should be able to make up their own mind in due time about what to believe in.

If i may make one last comment,

Who are we to know what is right for other people's children? Parents are only responsible for their own children and not for others.

So I think making remarks like that is wrong.

Ok, close this, there is no need for yet another religion thread.

There have been more than enough, and I think everyone has said there point.

Zombieloffe...
Go ahead and hate religion, but stop making threads just to diss it. If you cannot respect other people's viewpoints, than why the hell should anyone respect yours.

You wanted to provoke, here ya go. I've had it, if you want to disrespect and diss other people that don't agree with you, then I will treat you like a kid.

Because that's what kids do. I hope someday you will pull your head out of your ass, and grow up.

Lol more people following religions than you thought huh? you think ppl would "go omfg yes!"?

anyway. let people like this talk. if you cant change their mind, pray for them. if they arent affected by the prayers, they will one day be judged and wish they had different views when they were alive. alternatively you can make a really clever counter pic like the one fella did. xD

Like OHEMJEE they will be JUDGED? Oh my I'm so scared of my "judgement day" I hope all the things I did wrong in my life are pardoned by an invisible man in the sky so I can go to an imaginary place when I "GASP"!!!! DIE!!! Oh noes!

I can stand logical calm conversations of religion. However I will not stand for a flamefest. Why can't you accept other people's views and move on. It seems my "religion" gives me manners, than many of you are failing to express.

So what if you don't believe in a god, does that give you the right to put down others that do. Do you feel better? I love how the non-religious always cite the bad of religion, but refuse to ever see the good.

So I guess it's up to you. Will you respect others, or look like a fool...

DarKKKilaues: True words, true words... It's strange, the religious people in this kind of discussions always remain calm, while the anti-religious people type things like VOX just did, or the opening by Loffe.

Then it might be as you say DarKKilauea, religion leads to manners. So maybe it's not that wrong using religon in your way of raising your children, if they learn to behave with manners and get faith in something, that doesn't sound so bad no that i give it a bit mor thought.

DarkKilauea: Did you not read my third post? That's about as calm as I get, and as far as I can pull my head out.

Regarding VOX's rather violent response, I'd say it was because us non-believers feel offended when you throw around claims that we'll all go to hell when we die. As do I.
I do respect other people's beliefs and whatnot, but that doesn't mean I like to start debates like mad. Again, the intro post for this thread was to provoke
and cause discussion. If I'd just writted "I respect your views", it'd just be boring. This way is tonnes more fun, offensing people is great.

Kasperg:

Why educate your child with your beliefs

Beliefs are just that, beliefs. Not education. Sure, inform your child about your beliefs, but I think it's wrong to make up their mind for them.
Just because someone lacks religious faith doesn't mean they don't have moral standards. By defining their faith in their bringing up, it almost removes their ability to choose what religion to follow when they get older.

Of course, but you're not seeing it from their point of view. If they actually believe in all that, they will surely want their children to learn and follow those teachings. In some places, moral standards are taught with religion, not as a separate discipline.

Letting them wander off in another direction would go against their principles (for example, if they are christian, they made some sort of compromise with their church when they baptized their child).
When they are older, it is obvious those kids will choose whatever path they want. You might believe they are forced, but it's not like that. The number of young people seen in churches is vastly reduced as time passes by, which proves the brainwashing doesn't work that well.

Edit:

it was because us non-believers feel offended when you throw around claims that we'll all go to hell when we die

Can a person who doesn't believe in hell feel offended by that?
I would just laugh and point them to this article

A bit of a harsh thread?
People have the right to believe in what they want to.
Sure, I must say religion is kind of a,, weird solution too, but I'm not religious and no one makes me be religious and therefore I don't complain.

I don't want to debunk religion. I just don't like it.

Keep it to yourself for a change :

newsflash: nobody cares about anything anymore.

if want to bashed with the bible go to my school and talk to my form teacher.

religion is a waste of everybodies time.

i have not read any posts in this thread, nor will i read any more posts, or even view the thread.

bye.

Religion is a mixed blessing. It depends on what the person puts into it (faith and all) For example. Some people i know use religion as a guideline to live their life. Perfectly fine. The stories and morals in religion are sometimes told to children. Perfectly fine. But when somebody takes the whole thing too far, and becomes an extremist, thats where is all goes downhill.

Many views on religion are stereotypical. Views based on the actions of a small minority.

And no, im not religious myself.

I agree with 38_98.

Religion ain't shit.
It's good for some people, but it also causes wars, and when in causes wars it has crossed the line a long time ago.

---

Faith, interesting subject.
I say faith was proven to be false back in 1930.
Quantum mechanics!
My rendering of "Schr?dinger's cat" ( haven't read wikipedia's version of it, however I've read about schr?dinger's cat in two books )
tell me that there is no destiny.
The cat in this case has a future which obviously isn't decided yet.
Either the cat dies, or not.
Therefore, no faith.
His future is "decided" by chance.

What's your opinion?

I was tried and overworked last night, forgive my outburst. But I remain anti-religious regardless of my mood

But see, look what happens when you don't make your child have your religion. This happens, they don't believe in anything.

Like me!
I don't believe in me, and look at me!
I'm the smartest dude in my grade!
And if anyone teases me for that I kick their ass (And don't question that, I've done it for real! )

You should let your child decide.

Let your child decide? If you let your child decide, he would forever walk on all fours and try to eat any toys that fit into his mouth.
It is a parent's duty to guide a child until he reaches maturity and independence. And for religious people, that includes teaching them their religion.
You don't really want the child to decide. You want him to choose what you have chosen. If he chooses religion, you will dismiss it and say he was just brainwashed.

So what if you don't believe in a god, does that give you the right to put down others that do.

Kinda like many christians are so damn bent on trying to convert anyone who believes differently? And if it fails, they fire of the shitcannon: "You'll go to hell!".

/yawn

I agree with whoever said that religion should be kept out of kids life until they are old enough to judge for themselves. A small child WILL believe anything a parent tells him/her. It doesn't seem right to me to (for lack of a better word) "brainwash" the child just because you happen to believe in a certain religion.

When and if i ever have kids, i'm not going to discuss religion with him/her, unless of course the child asks about it. And when the time comes, i'll just explain that people believe in different things and it's up to you to decide what's right for you.

You can't do that if you're on a set course from the beginning.

[EDIT] And ZL's picture is gold, get over yourselves please.

So if you like one type of food, you should make your child eat only that food? If you believe in one political ideology, you should make your child follow only that ideology?

If one's raised religious, he won't have the ability to choose because he's been made to think that his religion IS the only way.

A person can live without religion. He can't, however, live with eating toys and walking on all fours (well, in practice, anyhow), your analogy doesn't quite apply.

If one's raised religious, he won't have the ability to choose because he's been made to think that his religion IS the only way.

WRONG. I was raised with a religious education. In 4 of the 8 schools I have attended, religion was an obligatory subject. It has rained a lot since then...
In 4 weeks, I'll be 22 years old. Nobody forces me to attend any religious celebration and I don't remember how many years have passed since I participated in one. I do not tell people on the street they are going to hell if they don't follow the religion I was once taught. I don't believe in hell or any of those concepts either. What I do have learned is a set of simple morals and guidelines which most religions share, but which atheist seem to lack. If put to good use, the world would be a much, much better place.

Some people are taught to have faith, others are taught to love each other, love the world etc, and others have been taught to hate, bash and mock those collectives.

Wow, this is like the 4th time I've said this;
You don't need a religion to have moral standards. Any decent parent teaches their child about morality and compassion - that doesn't necessarily follow with a religious upbringing. You seem to think that unless you're forced on a certain set of moral standards you immediately lack any sense of what's right. Humans tend to develop their own moral guidelines as they go along, with the basics set by their parents.

WRONG. [...etc]

Granted, my theory doesn't apply in all cases. But, generally speaking, someone raised as a devout catholic would be less probable to convert (or accept) any other religion than someone raised with the ability to choose freely as he or she grew up.

I'm mostly distrubed by this sterotype most people have of chirstians. Most mature Chirstians understand that the "you'll go to hell" comeback is a waste of breath. And again, so what if I believe you are going to hell, again I do not think any less of you, if just a sad truth.

Religion can be coompared to government, in the way that it is necessary. You need both. You cannot strip the God out of the bible and try to teach only the morals, it won't work. It'd problably be as effective as most morality classes in schools, which are a joke.

Yes, religion can be corrupted at the leadership level, but so can government. Do you really think humans can stay civil without one though?

Anyways, I have yet to see a religion thread on TWHL that has ever stayed logical or calm.

Humans tend to develop their own moral guidelines as they go along, with the basics set by their parents.

Go back to the Middle Ages and you'll be proved wrong
As I have mentioned in another thread, some of those called "civil morals" exist because religion existed before them. Without Christianism, for example, we will never know how much time it would have taken slavery to dissapear in the "civilized" Roman Empire

In case you don't know, one of the premises of Christianism is that men are free to follow God or deny him, which means you can choose freely when you grow up, or even before. Christianism has very little rituals compared to other religions that take themselves much more seriously.

I think the only religion worth discussion and argument here is Scientology. Im puzzled as to how this was not mentioned yet.

Discuss away if you dare.........

I say its all bullshit, and a scam for money. If you read or read parts of "Dianetics" you will see the insanity that this religion is.

747 spaceships? WTF? Why would spaceships resemble aircraft designed for flight in the air and not space? Clearly he was not very imaginative........

Let your child decide? If you let your child decide, he would forever walk on all fours and try to eat any toys that fit into his mouth.
It is a parent's duty to guide a child until he reaches maturity and independence. And for religious people, that includes teaching them their religion.
You don't really want the child to decide. You want him to choose what you have chosen. If he chooses religion, you will dismiss it and say he was just brainwashed

I think you missunderstood my point.
Just because you don't push in your religion as an adult in to your childrens heads doesn't mean that you won't teach them how to walk (or was that a joke?)
When I have children (which I intend to have) I will not force them to believe in anything, just like my parants, and their parants.

[/url]What is accomplished with the post?[/url]

Religion causes more strife, pain and wars than anything else. Anyone who thinks logically about the subject for 15 seconds will realize that religon is a pile of bullshit. It's exploitive shared delusion at it's very best imo.

If nothing else, this thread is a great PSA

Religous guys: don't take my words as a perosnal attack on your beliefs... this is just what I believe, and I would rather stick a rusty fork in my left eye, than waste any time debating it further.

/2 cents