Religion Discussion Created 18 years ago2006-11-15 18:41:56 UTC by Soup Miner

Reguarding recent activity in the "Holiday Avatars" thread, it would appear that we are in need of a decent religious discussion thread(instead of derailing every other thread that has any slight referenes to religion). I saw a few others request a new thread for this as well. Keep the following in mind and hopefully we can have a nice series of debates here without it turning into total chaos:
-Keep it decent. Heated debate can be fun, flamefests can not.
-Don't make claims without support to back them up.
-Don't attack the other religions, beliefs, or claims of fellow TWHL members just for the hell of being an ass.
-If you make a valid point that proves something you said is true, don't brag about it and say that everyone else is wrong.
-Don't start to hold grudges against others for what they believe. That's not your problem. Discuss it with them but don't hold grudges. We're all human and we all have human rights to beleive what we will.
-Redundancy ensues: Internet or not, keep it decent. We don't need "god is gay, fuck christians lolololol crucifix" every 2 posts.
-KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU POST IT.

So let's get started. What are your opinions of the beliefs of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, or any other beliefs that you feel to take note of? What do you believe in yourself and what are your views on the opinions of others reguarding what you believe?

Well, if my knowledge serves me correctly atheists are people who activly oppose all religion correct? I was just wondering why they have to flame everyone else who is in some way religious. Obviously this is a generalization, some people being more easy going then others.

I'm a christian, but what i always found so facinating was that all major religions are very similar (one god, some prophets, etcetc. Dont want to say something i cant back up now).

Now since they are all very similar, excluding the details of eating and "zeal" i dont understand how people could and still can go to war with each other without first looking at the otherside and seeing that they're not much different.

Lets take the crusades for example. Thousands died for the sake of a city that was holy to various religions. Why not share it? Compromises can always be pulled or at least the city can be divded into sectors. Now this sounds pigheaded because for example european christians had little claim to it, but it wouldnt have been hard to make space for them?

It did afterall work during the roman empire.

I've said it once, and i'll say it again:
Religeon, over the years has destroyed much more than it has created.

It is simply there for people too scared to face their own mortality who want to believe in something after death.

Dead is dead. You rot in the ground. It's not pleasant, but its not fanatical bullshit, either.

actually an atheist is'nt one who opposes of all religion, but one who just does'nt believe in one.

Define:
Atheism is the disbelief[1] in the existence of deities.

Yes, alot of people believe in 3 gods, where it is so simple to understand what exactly happens in the bible:
God is born again in bethleham, they name god jesus. Later he is crucified, and rises again, which was then called the holy ghost... HOW IS THAT CONFUSING!?

but what i always found so facinating was that all major religions are very simila

I actually think about that a lot too. The Koran (a muslim's bible, for those who don't know) actually contains a lot of text about Jesus, but not as the messiah.

Religion is very, very silly.

Q.E.D.

There is really nothing to discuss.
-People who are into religion and get positive things out of it will talk about the good or the need for religion.
-People who are not into religion will insist on all the bad things that have happened "under the flag" of religions.

In the end, everyone will defend their own views, contradict the rest and nobody will learn anything useful at all.

/exits thread 4ever

Christianity, Judaism and Islam all fall under one category, I can't remember the word but it describes their somewhat unified belief in Jesus.

I've got to say, I used to be well and truly atheist but since entering #jesus (an IRC channel on gamesurge all about... Jesus!) I've become a lot more agnostic. My main principles however, still stand;

1.) Why should I choose to believe the word of people from over 2000 years ago?
2.) If a God does exist, why should I worship him?
3.) If God did exist he wouldn't require all this mumbo-jumbo. He would realise that some of us would question religion in this way and so he would construct it differently for us to understand fully.

It all boils down to faith. In my opinion that's the last barrier that monotheists have standing. It's also the hardest for atheists to break. I can't argue past something that will only reveal itself to me if I believe in it. That is the only real acheivement of religions. They've made an unbreakable philosophical arguement. On the bright side, the notion that when you die you're dead and you rot to death is also pretty strong.

Why should I choose to believe the word of people from over 2000 years ago?

Its history. Its not like you don't believe what people said during WWII, is it?

If a God does exist, why should I worship him?

Most would argue that you should worship God because God is the reason you are here in the first place. Like you love(or are supposed to love) your parents.

So if you believe you just rot after you die, then what is your motive for living? I mean, if you are just going to decay in some dirt field for the rest of time its not like you are going to care whether you make a name for yourself while you're here. If you want to be known then you obviously think that there will be some benefit of it after death, but that can't really be the case because you'll be dead and either everyone will forget you or everyone will remember you. Either way, you won't know.

I've noticed a few people use God to do good...Kinda like me, I'm not religious and I will never be but I won't lie to you because I don't think he exists however I do use him in a good way...Like I've said this before but the only use I've found for him is guilt...When I do something I feel guilty about like leaving my clothes on the floor for my mother to pick up...And although this sounds silly I kinda think "Damn if I don't pick it up I'll have a shit unlucky day" so I pick it up...It helps cause I often see people drop litter at my school and I pick it up because it's common decency.

Anyway that's how I picture him...He don't exist physically in my mind but he serves me spiritually to help me become a better person...Weird eh?

Religion is very, very silly.

Q.E.D.

QFT

Its called superstition, habboi

Im kinda like that too, though.

I agree with Alex.

However... Everyone is free to think and believe whatever they want, as long as they don't force their faith - or lack thereof - upon anyone else.

It seems Catholics and Christians instantly nail me on sight as "evil" and my words are "poisonous" in nature. Why? Because I practice Satanism. Whereas other religions tell you to shy away from your primal instincts, Satanism indulges in the traits which make you human. No, we don't rape women, kill children. Satanic sex may deal with what society labels as taboo, but it doesn't condone rape.

Satanism isn't so much about worshipping Satan as it is worshipping yourself.

If I offend anyone in some way, then sorry, but I will not change my desicion on what I believe in.

Rock on satanist.

I would also like to add that the pentagram is not the symbol of Satan.

At any given point, every major religion has used a pentagram or a 5 sided figure.

The symbol of Baphomet, which is an inverted pentagram with Baphomet on it is used to represent Satan.

No, the pentagram is a symbol of fertility and the "mother" figure in some religions/cultures.

aparrently you do however believe that catholics and christians are two seperate groups? /slap

on a side note, Habboi, i dont pick up trash after people, i force them to pick it up (not pysically) by making them feel bad.

This thread is retarded beyond belief.

I've got to say, I used to be well and truly atheist but since entering #jesus (an IRC channel on gamesurge all about... Jesus!) I've become a lot more agnostic. My main principles however, still stand..

You took that from me, you slut!
Anyway, I agree with everything that fourthgen said. Now for responses, yay.

Its history. Its not like you don't believe what people said during WWII, is it?

If stalin had told me to believe in God, I wouldn't anyway. Your argument doesn't really make sense. Just because some people said some stuff 2000 years ago doesn't mean we should believe it. I don't deny Jesus existed, and I don't deny that people followed him zealously - however, I don't think he was the son of god (because.. there's no god, logically).

Most would argue that you should worship God because God is the reason you are here in the first place. Like you love(or are supposed to love) your parents.

I can understand that. But worship isn't the same as love. Why should I pray to and blindly love some higher deity just for the fact that he's above me? If god is all powerful, why does he need people to worship him? And why does he send people to hell who don't? Merciful god, yeah right.

The whole concept of hell/heaven is probably my main grudge against religion. See, I always thought that good people went to heaven and bad people went to hell. But evidently, only people who accept Jesus as their personal saviour will go to heaven. Doesn't that mean murderers and rapists go to heaven while some "good" go to hell? It's idiotic.

So if you believe you just rot after you die, then what is your motive for living?

The absence of an afterlife is what makes life more precious, not less. By our belief, we've got 100 years to be happy and live life.

I counter your question with "if you just blindly worship god and prepare for the afterlife, then what's your motive of living?" Wouldn't it just be better if you died right now and got to heaven straight away?

Wouldn't it just be better if you died right now and got to heaven straight away?

Yea, that one's always brought up,

I agree that once you die, there is just nothing, so my motive is to enjoy myself while I still can.

If someone came up behind me while I was typing this, and shot me in the back of the head, I wouldn't be at any loss, because I wouldn't exist anymore.
Nothing would exist (to me) anymore.
(assuming that I died immediately)

Wouldn't it just be better if you died right now and got to heaven straight away?

Suicide and things like that are considered murder in a sense. But you can't ask for forgiveness when you do it because you're dead(obviously). Its also a "short way out" that frowned upon.

I stopped believing in fairy tails a long time ago, true religious people believe that there has to be a miracle answer to everything (a divine higher power "God"), this was ok many years ago because it made sense to alot of people that had no reason to disbelieve.
Today science disproves many alleged events in the bible (this can not be dismissed as it is fact/real), and as we develop and progress through evolution we may finally find the true meaning to life and how it all began.

I am a factual type of guy, and I will admit that I do make mistakes, if they had the technology that we have today and captured (true evidence, not hearsay) some of the alleged events in the bible, then I would be sold on the idea, but my intelligence overrides the stories of old and I learn from these mistakes, this has enabled me to be more tolerant to changes within society (I don?t call it being Christian, I call it mutual respect).

For example same sex marriage: true gay people male or female that where born gender challenged are today accepted by a greater percentage of the community, the others that claim to be good honest Christians condemn these people and state that these type of people are sinners and will burn in hell. (I will acknowledge that not all church going people are all narrow minded.....fence sitters maybe?, slight disbelief maybe?)

Its all one big mystery, I wish I came up with that story book (the bible), and then I would be sitting on a golden throne like the pope. (Humour)

In all that I am saying, believe in what you want in your own private lives and don?t confuse moral judgment with religion.

And let it be said that he whom casts the first stone drink from thy cup before it runeth over AAAAHHHMENNN, sing it with me now....(yes I did go to Sunday school, "was blind but now I see" the truth)~(humour)

~As spoken by the honourable Human ~LeFtY~

(Content from the above dribble is not intended to offend and can not be used in evidence for litigation purposes..So sayeth the Shepard...so sayeth the flock) (Last bit of humour..Honest)

don?t confuse moral judgment with religion.

Smart, actually. Lots of religious people seem to think that you completely lack moral standards because you don't believe in god.

Personally, i think that many people don't like religion because of what they hear from the news and friends. Whenever religion does something bad it spreads like wildfire (Religious fanatics anyone?) but do you ever see Christian aid on TV helping out? No.

In my opinion, most people just take the crazy, extremist miniority in religions and think everyone is like that. Well, they aren't. I have a friend whom is religious and i know several people, including family members, whom are religious. And it doesn't bother me one bit, even though im athiest myself.

don?t confuse moral judgment with religion

QFT

On a side note, I think everyone, whether you're religious or not should read The Da Vinci Code and the prequel Angels and Demons. They're both supremely insightful books. I can promise you'll enjoy them as long as you enjoy being philosophical.

but dont cheap out and watch the film instead.
The film is utter piss

The film is utter piss

QFT

I've read most posts in this discussion and insted of answering anything I'll just give you my view on faith.

Im a christian, Im not raised to be a christan. Well, my father is also a beliver but he NEVER tried to force his faith upon me, he left that entierly up to me. Why did I become a christian then? some things happend, change my life and I saw "the light" if you know what I mean. I think my faith became this strong when I decided to give up drugs and fight for my health and wellbeing, so religion has helped me a hell of a lot.

And I have kind of my own version of christianity, I didn't base my belif on what some priest said or what the school/friends told me, I read the bible and listened to the words of Jesus. And basicly he tells us that if we are good to others we will be in heaven after our body dies. I still have a lot of sex, I don't see how that would possibly be a sin. God created us this way, we enjoy surtain things, and he wouldn't have created us this way if we wheren't supposed to enjoy those things. I can only find one thing in life that I can call sin and that is if you are being an ass. If you do something to hurt someone, that is the only sin I know. Or hurt yourself, like I did with drugs. But Im over that now, I live a perfectly normal and good life, thanks to faith.

And I don't really care if the bible isn't true, or if there is no God or Jesus. It's the faith that matters, the faith in something good that tells us to be good. So I reallt don't give damn about if it's true or if it's not because Jesus and God is more of a symbol to me that keeps remining me to be a good person.

And that is my view on faith.

And also, politics and religion doesn't match. Im a communist so I shouldn't really belive in God, but I don't think that politics and religion is supposed to be mixed at all. Religion is something you keep for yourself or between friends. And I HATE when people call religoins wrong, or when people say that athism (don't mid the spelling) is wrong. Because we really don't know and I really don't care, most of my friends are either satanists, athiest or chrisians and we all get along just fine.

I think I'll call my version of christianity "Oskar's faith".

The books are good indeed. Havent seen the film yet.

Nice Point of View Tosse.

Wow, Tosse, that's the sanest view on religion I have ever seen.

And I don't really care if the bible isn't true, or if there is no God or Jesus. It's the faith that matters, the faith in something good that tells us to be good.

QFT. Very good.

The sad part is that the majority of Christians would disagree.

Haha I know, most christians are assholes, sad to say.

Yeah, i agree with you ZL, if everyone would think about life in general about that then we would have a whole lot less of trouble.

Powerful words, Tosse. Awesome little speech there, nice and thought provoking.

but dont cheap out and watch [The Da Vinci Code] instead.
The film is utter piss

Yes, very true. What a waste of time.

I was thinking about this earlier today, looking forward to asking it:
How can you prove that there is nothing after death? Sure, you can say that the idea of Heaven and Hell, or ghosts, or an afterlife is propsterous but where's the evidence for there not being something after death? It seems even more ridiculous to me that people are just complicated, biological machines. If we can think the way we do and have our minds do the things that it does, then surely there must be something else there than a bunchy of blood vessels, tissue, and electrical impulses. Some kind of spirit or supernatural force.

Of course we can't prove it. If we could, there wouldn't really be any religion.

To me, it seems pretty ridiculous to think that one's consciousness would remain after our brain's decomposed.

So I guess it really just boils down to what seems logical to you, huh?

Well then let him belive that then

But ZL, everything can't be logical explained, just look at the female brain!
But that is another discussion...

actually if you also read some responses to the da vinci code you might see that although some of it might be be true, there are alot of lies. Dont take every bit of fiction that sounds correct for the truth ^^

How bout someone gives us a small anecdote of how a christian is an asshole instead of just always cursing them? ALl i see is: "yes true but most christians wont agree cause they're assholes."
care to share proof?

The Da Vinci Code is a terrible book. It's a simple man's thriller, designed to appeal to the widest range of audience possible. It's fairly simply written, it follows all the traditional methods of writing a thriller. The only reason it's popular is because it oversteps the mark and introduces some controversial Religious themes.

Big fucking whoop. Stop saying it's a good book and read some decent ones already.

[quote]I think I'll call my version of christianity "Oskar's faith". heart -

	Posted on 16 Nov 06, 18:30

by Tosse
Avatar
[/quote]

Excellent viewpoint, it captured all that I have in faith, I also believe Faith is the key to healthy/happy/long life, and the best thing about faith is it can be separated from religion, this can be applied to many daily activities, for instance:
1. I have faith that all TWHL members will one day tolerate other member?s beliefs/gender/age/spelling mistakes.. And bad mapping skills.

2. I have faith that one day the world will be rid of cancer and no more suffering.

3. I also have faith that I will remember to check my toast and not let it burn and set off the smoke alarm, /me sits and eats black toast

To have faith is a powerful tool we all can use in our daily lives (doesn?t have to be about God), I am an optimist, I never give up on believing that we are all equal, some of us are stranger than others (my opinion), but that?s what makes life interesting.

Arcan: "christians" are just as much assholes as the rest of us and thats why most christians are assholes.

so you cant target christians generally, therefor you shouldnt. YOu should say everyone is an asshole rather than christians are assholes, because whilst not being a minority, christians do not represent 100% of the world population

why are we talking about religion anyway?

because it came up in the holiday avatar thread

This should be closed before it becomes a huge flaming thread again, as all before it have. :

But this one hasn't? So why should it be closed?

"that bad looks like a really bad egg, we should put him in jail before he does something!"