ToDo Created 19 years ago2004-07-26 13:15:03 UTC by atom

Okay, so some changes need to be made

I gather the problems mainly concern three things: the Map Vault, new members, and the site's organisation from a newbie perspective.

I just want to consolidate here the issues that have been raised in other threads. Thanks to everyone who has contributed ideas - many of them are reposted here.

Map Vault
The MV has a bit of an identity crisis ATM. TWHL is a beginner's site, y'see, so a "completed maps" section doesn't imply world-class, and when all you know is how to make a box, your first "completed map" will be a small square room - loads of fun, but not in the same league as some of the stuff that's posted there.

So, the plan is for a second "completed maps" category to be be created, ("my first map!" or something - need ideas for a name, perhaps not as condescending), and anyone should be allowed to post their most modest creations there. To restrict other completed maps section to good maps only (within reason, they shouldn't have to be brilliant), simple moderation should suffice. I'm sure people will tend to put their stuff in the right place, given enough choice. (If this doesn't work, posting to the good category could become a privilege you gain after some time (see next topic))

So, then you don't have to wade through rubbish to find the good stuff, but if you're feeling kind you can have a look through the newbie maps and make some constructive comments. Happiness all round!

Of course, the voting system needs to be rewritten so that the obvious rules apply. I also like the idea of having ratings always come with a comment...

Members
Currently new members have no way of knowing at a glance who the more experienced ones are. MoP's ranks idea is a good one, but it would probably work best in a simplified form. Perhaps a system where members who've been here a while are voted into a kind of sub-mod position for being dedicated and helpful and knowledgable, by other members already in that position.

Being a sub-mod would get you a cool little badge or something displayed with your nick on the forums and such, and may eventually give you other privileges (like the MV one if that's necessary)

Site Organisation
I'll reorganise the front page to help get everyone to the right places faster. The 'Where to start' page can get a redesign as well.

The tutorials are broken up into three skill levels, but they probably need to be reconsidered now. They are already associated with keywords for searching, but perhaps the first thing on the 'Where to start' page needs to be 'How to use the search'.

I'll do something to make searching the forums a more obvious first step. They also need to be pruned a little and made faster (they've grown quickly!)

Well, thanks for reading (if you didn't just skip down here ). Please comment and add any ideas I might have left out.

Good to see that the father of TWHL is back and will, together with us, reorganize this place.
Everything sounds good so far.

For the ranking system, I think there should be some little descriptions for those special members whereby every senior member can specify a little text that is diplayed below his name, like this:

atom - He started this very community.
Jahzel - Leader of 'Problem-Reaction-Kill'
etc.

When will the changes take place?

Excellent stuff, atom, great to see you back, even if only for awhile

Map Vault:

There has long been an issue with the map vault. the best thing to do would be to organize it into cs, dm, hl, mod, and other, which would include tfc, r, ect. also, there needs to be something done to prevent people from joining and then posting a million maps. maybe there could be a finished map pile, where map vault moderators could put all the maps that are sutible, that way, all the ones that aren't, stay in the normal vault, where not many people will look, causing them to stop their frenzy till they get one good one to try to put in the complete vault.

I'm not sure people would put their stuff where it belongs. People want their map to be seen, to be rated, downloaded, and commented on. if new, they might not know that it is not a very good map. They might just think its the greatest.

If they are, they'll be moved. The only reason the MV is impossible (practically) to mod right now is because there's so much flooding, people entering dozens of maps.

Nice idea though; I think it'd work well too.

Atom, your ideas for curing the site of its "ailment" are brilliant. However, we do need rules to sort out spammers etc. But other than that, great idea. Ranks sound good, but make it really difficult to get the high ranks (EG: highest rank is 10: 1-5 is easy enough, 6-7 could be harder, 8-9 difficult, and 10 would only be for hardcore members. And I'm not talking about pornography )

The map vault ideas are good, but we need to have it in mod sections,
EG:

HL, CS, HL mods (TFC, OF, BS, SC etc.), and have this for every vault except maybe the example vault.

My 2 cents on the vault is that you should be allowed to post as many maps as you want. I don't like the whole: "You have to be here so long before..." thing. If someone truely has some great work to share that would benefit us all, why should they need to wait til they've been a member for a certain amount of time before they can show us all their maps.

You should be allowed to post as many maps as you want, in as short of time as you want. BUT, the vault should be more closely monitored so that unfinished, crap, or one room maps are taken down and put where they belong.

Don't punish us ull by making us wait to see some incredible maps someone new to this site might have made, just to try to control noob spam. I mean the vault benefits everyone, not just the guy who's posting the map.

BUT, the vault should be more closely monitored so that unfinished, crap, or one room maps are taken down and put where they belong

Mods do not have the time to review people submitted ten maps a day. There is no need to release them all immediately, even if they're excellent maps you've spent years making.

I still think there should be a limit of one/day or less.

we just need a vote. members can vote on which maps they think should be deleted. if enough votes get through (a certian number of votes) then a modrator is notified of the vote and can then decide what course of action to take.

I couldn't agree more.
But we'd need many more mods for the MV.
It would be quite annoying for one person to have to review all these 30kb maps.

nice to meat you atom.

I really like your ideas. But i think thwere should be more moderators to review the maps and decide where they go. (catagory wise.) Im up for it.

Mods do not have the time to review people submitted ten maps a day.

Get more mods.

I still think there should be a limit of one/day...

That sounds reasonable.

nice to meat you atom.

was that a typo or are you planning to eat him or something!?

hey can we get a bigger onliners box as well?

lol, ministeve.

prickly_pimple, there is no need for more moderators. The current ones do a great job.

Maybe a different type of moderator, like a map vault moderator, where there are forum moderators, and map vault moderators.

A ranking system is a great idea, but what if there were special badges to wear, like we have now with trophies, but what about ones that show up like next to your avatar that tell your "rank" and the other special stuff, like forum moderator, or map vault moderator.

a limit of one a week for completed maps would be better than one a day. unfinished stuff, example maps, and problem maps could need no day limit. still, you have to be within reason and think of all the coding that atom will have to do to do this. I don't know if he can do everything.

Good thinking BL,
We discussed this today.
Atom has some ideas and we will just have to see how those go.

Pretty sure noone posted his but, we also need clickable pages for the vault instead of just next and previous. You know, like 1,2,3... and have the numbers clickable pages.

I'd be willing to be a MV mod ....

I'm with Ministeve, there should be a bigger onliner box or possibly a system similar to most other forum/website systems that shows how many guests and members are on the site, but I know little to nothing about coding so I don't know if that would be really easy or really hard to do.

About the members sub-mod thing. I like the idea, but I don't know how we are going to decide who is a sub-mod. I have been a fairly active member of the site lately but havent really posted some truly stunning work. So would that make me a sub-mod? :

And I was hoping these people would Halfops in IRC?

these are all good idea's. i hope they work.
and i think the administrators should do more against the spamming in the forums. i have not seen one action against it.
its really really much compared to other sites. maby twhl should be a little less noob friendly.

I came up with an idea on the irc last night- there needs to be certified reviewers to look at maps submissions, give feedback etc. The reason I said this is that most maps have no comments, when they do they are 2 words or talking bullshit. If I were to post a map (which I will do soon) I want critisicm and feedback.

The badge thing is already on the Members page, so it'd probably be pretty easy for atom to implement.

if its possible id also like to be a mv mod. ive been using proper words alot more recently

who does not want that.
read the rest of the thread. atom ore andy should decide that.

Pepper is right at that point, although I disagree with his idea that TWHL should be less friendly against people who just started to map. but, so far I'm quite (very) content with the changes about to be made around here

I'd really like to see a "General HL" forum, second to the top if possible, and Stuff moved to the bottom. I don't know if that's easy or anything, heh but otherwise it gives the "stuff" forum priority over more important stuff.

anyone remember my deathrow idea? Whare its so flamed up sppammed up that noone else should post on it?Then it gets sent to death row. There, no one can post on it, start new thread, nothing. Just look at the shame. I wll be the mod who will decide or be told which thread to send to this new, deathrow...

no more cat...

hi peeper!

I think if the completed maps category is broken into two, moderation can be done more in the way it is for forums. The difference is that maps require downloading and playing, so ministeve's vote idea would be a good thing for sub-mods to be able to do. Not to delete the map necessarily, just to have it moved or whatever. That way there's less load on the mods themselves.

I'll try to make browsing the MV easier as well, and give the mods more power over the comments

About who gets to be a sub-mod... I think it should be limited to a small number of people initially (say 10). Not the best mappers, just the regs who are mature and add something to the community. They can then vote to promote others as people leave, the site grows, etc.

d e a t h r o w ? ?

Yay! Change

How about the extra forum idea?

Oh, also, thread move/close would be very very handy. It takes a very long time to move threads post-by-post, and the server gets very sluggish when you're trying to open ten pages at once in order to change the authors.

Atom...can I be a sub-mod please ?

I feature where people culd edit/delete posts would 0wn!

This has been discussed many times and has been rejected as a bad idea.

so lets not post out why it is a bad idea and waste space. It was a final desision.

I know sometimes I might go off on an odd ramble, like my compo idea to seventh, and I don't stop to make sure all the words are spelled correctly, but could I be a sub-mod also?

If people request, I'll correct their posts for them whenever necessary.

PS: The past participle of "spell" is "spelt"

I just hope that TWHL gets a good makeover, and is back to what it was origionally made to be.

can I put off topic stuff in a P.S. thing. maybe there should be a special box you can put off topic stuff in, like how those quote boxes work.

P.S. lol, yeah, I must sound like a hick when I say stupid stuff like that. I just try to type fast. I'm a busy person. I bet you wouldn't guess I was a writer

I don't like it when someone corrects posts, unless they meant to say something completely different and ask the moderator to change it. Spelling isn't very important here, and you all know what I'm saying, most of the time.

there should be a special box you can put off topic stuff in

Eh? You mean the Stuff forum?

I don't like it when someone corrects posts, unless they meant to say something completely different and ask the moderator to change it.

Misread your earlier post. I thought you were bemoaning your inability to correct typographical errors. Tongue-twister

HOW COME ATOM ISNT RESPONDING TO MY DEAHROW IDEA?

yah, but its sent to a new forum area. I will decide and be told what goes.

So kind of a 'recycling bin' for threads/posts?

I'd be willing to be a submod...I feel I meet the criteria for being one. Keep me in mind .

he does. he does.

I just found the people who want to be submods, for no apparent reason.

trapt (No please)
Vassy (Said Please)
BrattyLord (Meant Please)
RabidMonkey777 (No please)

Chow, I don't really like your Death-Row Idea. nothing personal though. Is that just so that the threads aren't deleted and valuble information gone, like what happened to the "I got an Idea" list?

Fair Comment BL..
I think a thread recycling bin is a good idea.
I also think Map Vault moderation is a good idea as long as I don't have to do it

First things First...
We have started aggressively moderating the General Mapping and Maps and Mod's forums. So far so good.

I have started Renaming posts in those forums, so they reflect the actual question...
For example: Instead of "HELP!! llwwp gnarrr ling bot" you now see "CS entity help required"

Slay is looking at the Vault and possible modifications to it.
I have posted News today to allow members to make front page posts.

I will be leaving the Stuff, and this forum alone... But I do read the posts and will delete anything that is not appropriate.

The Change has started, and will continue.
The only problem I forsee is Time. Each of these new activities takes time to impliment... So can you help us out here by being a little patient?

The thing about renaming threads is that the posters will likely think their threads got deleted. We don't want to scare everyone away.

I'll do as much as I can when a) the PC isn't endlessly dying and b) I'm here.

The Example Maps section has been dramatically neatened and pruned.

yes. good work at that.
and if think you should take your time. you cant do it in a day.

Over the summer, apart from working on HL: Donuts, I plan to write a Steam setup tutorial, a LEAK tutorial (that's a 'maybe') and do some more Example Maps.

How about a "My active threads page" where the forumvisitors can find the threads they started and/or the threads they replied at?

Nice thinking, Mike. I like that idea. I've seen that one some other sites and I found it a very handy thing.

As for the Change, it's good to see things are happening, long-asked-for changes are made. Like TWHL is growing up...

Concerning the sub-mod system, I prefer that above a 10-ranking system. It's more simple, and less restrictive in my opinion. After all, TWHL is meant to help the newbies getting started...

Very nice idea Mike.

Yes, Rabid, itll be like one big recycling bin. Thnx, andy, for calling it a good idea. It'll look sumthin like this.

BrattyLord, this forum spot will be so the threads DONT just disapear, theyll still be there for viewing, just in a new forum and you wont be able to reply.

this is just an example, dont worry whats in the deathrow forum...