de_classicsmix_b2

To be honest. What did Ukraine do to deserve our help? I know letting someone die is a bad thing but it isn't everyone's war. Just their's and Russia's.

Just saying. I just think it's strange all this.

One could also say, what did the Jews do to make us save them in World War II? And what did the Italians do to warrant us liberating them from fascism? Or perhaps liberating European countries that quickly surrendered to the Nazis? I remember old posters at rallies in the United States that read, "This is not our war with Hitler, why not make peace?" Has it ever occurred to you that this is not charity, but the contribution of all Europeans to their own stable, peaceful future? Do you really think that Russia will stop at Ukraine?) Then set an example for China, let it attack Taiwan, and let Iran develop nuclear weapons and attack Israel.
Ps As for whose war, some countries after 2014 bought resources from Russia, making it stronger, some even sold their own military developments (so in the Russian equipment that attacked Ukraine there are Western developments, without which they would be weaker) So some companies did business on someone else's misfortune, paid taxes to their countries, and now from a moral point of view are not involved? It's more complicated, the days of isolation are over

For sure it is nice to help others. But you'll always pay the consequences for helping someone's enemy. Especially if there's a reason for war.

Russia did a flawed move but so did Ukraine which none of the media wants to confess is true. For there's no perfect, everything's flawed and we lived that way and will continue to do so. Life is unfair and no one can change that no matter how they try to. There's always gonna be something flawed about one's ideas.

The layout is actually really cool and interesting. I like how Nuke is squeezed into the middle, and it would make for some very interesting gameplay encounters. I don't personally think Nuke needs to be a bombsite, and I'd maybe consider it just being Dust2's A site and Train's B-site. This would keep Nuke just as a mid traversal option and i think would keep gameplay more balanced. Very clever use of space with the 3 maps.

Texturing and lighting - I like seeing the remixed Dust 2 in a more industrial setting, but overall the texturing is a bit lacklustre. Crates and details in general are all a bit bland, and overall the map could use some more distinct texturing and lighting. This is both for visuals and to aid navigation, as the new layout can be slightly maze-like. Train also seems pretty much unchanged, which is a shame when you've given Dust such a makeover.

Brushwork, I feel, could be updated a bit for 2023. It's very, very low-detail. I understand you're using the official maps as a base, but I'd love to see a bit more detailing and love given to some of the setpieces and cover. Big towers of crates, and oddly aligned cover on ramps are kinda dull.

From the screenshots, I assumed the Ukraine imagery was coming from a place of love, but it does seem to step quite a bit further than that. The flag alone would have been a lovely touch... the rest is a bit too heavy handed, if I'm completely honest.
I was originally so confused as to why Meerjel would feel the need to make that initial comment, but having now played it, the map does seem to be very deliberately pointed to invite those kinda challenges.

As a moderator, all I'll say is make sure you keep it civil and sensible in the comments. As a person, I'd consider dialling the imagery back to a place of love, not war.
I guess I'm just a little uncomfortable around pro-war sentiment, even if it's on the side of good.

Map seems great for larger player counts but was still pretty fun to play against bots in a 5v5.

Wasn't expecting 3 bombsites though, the way dust2's A site and train's B site are organized makes sense, but the position of nuke's A site seems a little bit random and may be a bit too close to T spawn, which makes it far easier to get to than dust2 A which i feel makes that bombsite a bit superfluous and only really useful in clutch situations.

Regardless, this is a good, solid map.

首先，游戏应该成为艺术而不应该成为宣传的手段；然后，关于你说的关于中国的评论部分，我极不同意。格物致知。
First, games should be art, not propaganda; Then, with regard to your comments about China, I disagree very much.Don't say anything you don't know.

Archie, Thank you for such a detailed review of the map. Yes, the solution of 3 bomb sites is experimental and needs to be tested. As for the visual style, I adjusted the style of de_dust 2 to de_train, so de_train itself was unchanged. Yes, I had thoughts of replacing all the textures with my own, and making more detail, but then it would not be so recognisable for players, it would not feel like a classic.
Ps As for the posters on the map, it's all out of love. I don't see anything wrong with glorifying the defenders, if it weren't for them, these maps might not even exist. They are peaceful in nature, with no images of violence or calls for it. There is a lot of writing about games here, maybe someone has played Freedom Fighters? Or Homefront? Or the Call of Duty series of games? They all fall under deliberate propaganda

Reasonable, Thank you for testing the map. I was wondering if it was worth adding a third bomb bookmark with de_nuke. Perhaps the bookmarking place here should be removed. If you can record the gameplay with live people and post it, it will help the development of the map a lot

Lei shi, I do not see any propaganda in the glorification of people who defend their homeland. Art has always been sincere and showed what people care about, not censored. The role of art is to expose evil:) As for propaganda in games, have you heard of Freedom Fighters, or played Homefront and Call of Duty? Ps It's nothing personal, but a year ago the whole world was worried about the situation with Taiwan when Nancy Pelosi visited. China's position even in the Russian-Ukrainian war is very strange

Meerjel01, or maybe this war is a test of ideology? I remember the annual commemorations of the Holocaust, how they would never allow genocide to happen again, and now it is happening again, but now against Ukrainians? In a recent audio interception, a Russian soldier bragged about how he and other soldiers killed 400 people in a village overnight! Isn't that genocide? If a democratic West doesn't have values for which it is willing to help, then what are those values worth? No one is calling on anyone to personally fight by sending troops. I am very interested in what mistakes Ukraine has made. Like every country, it wanted to build its own path of development, strived to develop democracy and join the EU in order to improve the lives of ordinary people. And for Russia, democracy itself is a threat, but this is their problem as an inadequate country

It is our war, Meerjel. If the Russians take Ukraine, Sweden is next. If you read the news you will know that Russian bomb planes fly towards Sweden on a regular basis. Do you think they do that for a laugh? They call it practice. Many countries tried to stay neutral in the 1930s and 1940s - but dictators did not care back then and dictators do not care now. Swedes had luck that time, most did not, and we can't count on luck again. To help Ukraine is to help ourselves.

Ukrainians are suffering murder and rape (even children) because they dared to say they are Europeans, that they are us. That makes them more European than anyone else is. For us Europeans, us who want to be safe from Russian bombs, us who reject dictatorship, it is unfortunately our war.

The world should have stopped doing business with both Ukraine and Russia back in 2014 when the plane with 300 people was shot down. Until they figure their stupid conflict out, admit who's fault it was, apologize to the entire world and promise not to fight. But that wasn't going to happen, because there's too much money to be made.

你的评论很复杂，泥沙俱下，或许在你眼中我或是其他人的评论也是一样，所以我所说的可以供你选择性的参考。
你口中的艺术在我看来更像是文化，艺术可以有分别的，但是在这分别之间是不应该有隔阂的。艺术是应该讲实话，可是更应该把实话说全，否则和审查有什么区别呢？艺术追求真善美，所以它可以被全世界的人欣赏，我个人认为《蒙娜丽莎的微笑》和《富春山居图》是美的，我看到它们以及其它的一些作品是能够认为“艺术应该被如此表现”的。至于你说的“艺术的作用是揭露邪恶”，我是有一些同意的，不过这不是它的第一职能，而且它的内容亦应该像哲学一样“条条大路通罗马”，不应该有较为明确的指向性。这是为什么我说你所做的是文化产品。
我能够理解你的意图，你是一个爱国的人，我想在这里的每一个人都是爱国的人。这个怎么说呢，比如说你我二人并不相识，我如果贸然和你说“支持我，就现在”，也许一次两次，你会帮助我，时间久了呢？你的心思会发生改变，甚至会调整对我的相处方式，这是竭泽而渔啊。我们要知道你因为什么值得更好的对待，你应该把一个国家的魅力体现出来，吸引别人去做有利于你的事情，我知道一些俄罗斯的风土人情，艺术造诣。恕我直言，现在的呈现方法可能太“硬”了。
我可能不了解欧洲，但是俄罗斯真的是和欧洲对抗吗？我想不一定。我不想讲太多，一些信息在不同视角下会有不同的讲述角度，“横看成岭侧成峰”。我们就各自持有保留意见并为其奋斗吧。
最后我要说的是，现在的中国勉强算得上是一个大国了，现在走的也不是前人的路，它们走不通。我们说过的每一句话，做过的每一件事，全天下的人都在观望，我们必须要谨慎，我们还没有离开泥潭。别指望中国站队，世界也不是非黑即白。
至于你说的台湾，这是中国历史遗留下来的问题，是我们自家的家事，别人无权干涉，只有一个中国。我们想什么时候解决就什么时候解决，如果有人别有用心，觉得自己行了，那就小心点别自己他妈给自己整失礼了，到时候挨两个逼斗又觉得自己有冤屈，“勿谓言之不预也”。
Your comments are very complex and muddled, and you may think that my comments and others think the same way, so what I say can be used for your selective reference.
In my opinion, the art you mentioned is more like culture. Art can be different, but there should be no gap between the differences. Art should tell the truth, but it should tell the truth all the more. Otherwise, what is the difference between it and censorship? Art pursues the true, the good and the beautiful, so it can be appreciated by people all over the world. Personally, I think Mona Lisa Smile and Residence in Fuchun Mountain are beautiful. When I see them and some other works, I can think that "art should be expressed in this way". As for your statement that "the role of art is to expose evil", I do agree with you, but this is not its first function. Besides, its content should also be like philosophy, "all roads lead to Rome" and should not have a clear direction. That's why I say what you do is a cultural product.
I can understand your intention, you are a patriotic person, I think everyone here is a patriotic person. How to say this, for example, you and I do not know each other, if I rush to say to you "support me, right now", maybe once or twice, you will help me, for a long time? You will change your mind, even adjust the way you get along with me, this is the drain. We need to know why you deserve better treatment. You should embody the charm of a country and attract others to do things that benefit you. I know some Russian customs and artistic attainments. With all due respect, the present presentation method may be too "hard".
I may not know about Europe, but is Russia really against Europe? I don't think so. I don't want to talk too much. Some information will be told from different perspectives. "Look at the ridge from the horizontal side and form the peak from the side". Let's just have our reservations and fight for them.
Finally, I would like to say that today's China is barely a big country, and it is not following the path of its predecessors. Everything we say, everything we do, the world is watching, we have to be careful, we are not out of the mire. Don't expect China to take sides. The world is not black and white.
As for Taiwan, it is an issue left over from China's history. It is our own family affair and no one else has the right to interfere. There is only one China. We can solve the problem whenever we want. If someone has ulterior motives and thinks he can do it, he should be careful not to make himself rude. Then he will get two slaps in the face and feel he has wronged, "I already said it".

Lei, most Taiwanese disagree (go there and ask them! - just make sure you get a visa first). And that is all that matters. To them "Taiwan is a part of China" is as wrong as "China is a part of Japan"

请问你从哪里知道“台湾人不同意的”？你现在在台湾吗？“隔着窗户看到的花园是不完整的”。请你不要在这里多讲台湾的事情了。
May I ask where do you know that "Taiwanese people disagree"? Are you in Taiwan now?"The view of the garden through the window is incomplete."Please don't talk too much about Taiwan here.

"Are you in Taiwan now?" No, last time was a couple of years ago unfortunately. They are a very friendly people and they love it when you talk about their country.

中国有自己的待客之道。好的客人可以得到好的待遇，坏的客人可以得到坏的待遇。
China has its own way of hospitality.Good guests can get good treatment, bad guests can get bad treatment.

Bruce, You are right!, only those to whom you write do not see beyond their noses, they are ready to glorify the president of Ukraine without realizing that he is not interested in ending the war, there are no good people here, everyone is involved in this and makes very big money. Those who want to object, first ask yourself a question and try to answer: why, more than a year after the full-scale invasion, they still have not declared war on Russia and why russian gas is still being pumped through the Ukrainian pipe to Europe...

Hi everyone, just stop. TWHL isn't the place for your debates, go to facebook or something.