Forum posts

Played that map long ago. It was one of the maps from the thewall.de competition to remake an official hldm map. Check out the full package of those maps, there are more quality maps like this one.

I've got several possible solutions running through my mind.

One would be to temporarily disable the teleporter once someone has entered it to prevent the Scotty problem.

However, since you want teams to quickly go through the teleporters, I think my second idea is better: changing the destination of the teleporter once somebody has run through it using the trigger_changetarget entity. Using this method you can place players next to each other without need for nasty surgeons.

I like to swim in awards too, yeah...

but seriously, what's the point of awards this and awards that? They're nice signs but nothing more than that. If you've finished a great mappack or mod, you don't need an award to see your work get acknowledged.

So, if you ask me, it's of no use.

In Hammer, there's a Go To Brush Number option in the menu. Fill in the brush numbers you see in that long error report and it'll take you to those brushes (one number at a time ;)). You've likely messed them up with vertex manipulation or carving. Recreating those brushes and doing it good this time is probably the best solution.

alex, I see anything from these 'stupid mistakes' to 'glitches' as not so important. Nobody is ever going to create a perfect, flawless map and that's not the goal of a game either. I understand you want to know what sort of these mistakes we found, so I gave my opinion about them because I don't think they're important to find.

If you search for such things, you'll find them. In every game. It's funny to see some sometimes and speedrunners are often very good at finding more 'rewarding' problems in maps.

Personally, I think it's no big deal. If the overall game plays nice and if those misalignments aren't really distracting or disturbing, then it's no problem. Most player will not play searching for things like this. Some people even say the devil is in the detail, meaning that spending too much time on details and fixing this sort of 'problems' may harm the overall project because more important issues don't get the time they deserve.

As for Xen, I think it looked best in Blueshift. HL's Xen didn't look so good to me and I think it wasn't worked out as well as the rest of the game either. HL was a realistic-feeling game and the sudden change to an unrealistic world didn't really feel fitting to me.

Personally I see the prefab system as only usefull for objects you'll use a lot in your maps, like light fixtures or doorframes and the like. Using prefabs made by others, or the default HL ones often results in an inconsistent map, looking too standard and boring to really make a difference.

Plus, downloadable prefabs often come without their textures and with trouble. So, yeah, is it really worth the download time or could you do the same but better?

/my 2 cents

Still feels basic to me, somewhat blocky and empty. I think you didn't really used the right textures for the right building styles, or the right combination of buildings with each other. There's something wrong but I can't really pinpoint it. Some buildings feel to low too, especially the ones next to the combine blockade.
I think the deserted aspect of this doesn't really show - the buildings need to be more wore down and since this plays during the rebellion, more destructed, some destroyed cars alone won't do it. Maybe break up the road at some parts as a result of the fighting too. Add some fires, some athmosphering stuff and so.

Oh, 8th screenshot shows a white building on the left, that suddenly stops existing on the far left. Needs fixed.

But, apart from that all, it's nice to se a SP map being made. Good luck with this.

Like Seventh said, C is perhaps the easiest option, and the problem of the non-existing inside can be countered by creating an inverted sphere, texturesd from the inside. Might take some more work than a normal sphere but you'll get the idea.

I don't think circular this or circular that is a solution to blocky environments. Sometimes circular stuff just doesn't fit an area. For such tunnes, a trim fits probably better, maybe some pillars sunken into the walls too. Those lamps look very repetetive and make the hall look very long. I still think it is too long as well. What's the added value of running that much longer while it could've been half as long, taking players into combat faster?
The pipe is hardly visible so it doesn't really add much, you may want to place it in a different spot. Some air vents would be nice here too since it's a long underground tunnel.

Those building/box screenshots look simple too, those walls could use some trims and other detail, a light fixture would be nice, and all in all, it doesn't really have a strong sense of place. It feels rather generic with some (over-used) boxes. Perhaps you could think up on a more interesting purpose for that building?

Forget the bloom and shiny effects, especially when you're not a coder. Go for some playable levels at first. That's what will keep people playing. Bloom is a nice addition but nothing more than that - without gameplay, it's not going to interest people for long.

Just make a map or mappack, coders are hard to find so unless you're lucky, you're not going to get it.

The tunnel looks very boring, it needs some detail to break up those endless faces. Also, wouldn't such a tunnel take way too much time to travel, thus making the map play slower? There's also no cover in that tunnel so if you're ever caught there, you're fried.

About the spawn area: what sort of area are you planning it to be, theme-wise?

*player [Snarkpit]Captain P joins*

*player [Snarkpit]Captain P disconnects*

Yeah, looks better now. Though that cockpit window looks somewhat bland, and makes the shuttle appear smaller than you've probably intended because it's quite a large window...

Afaik, using the null texture will cut out faces when it touches other faces within the same entity. Clip doesn't do that.

Accompanied by an example map (that you can check out in Hammer), do you still think it's that bad of an idea?

Plus, with HL, alt-tabbing between the game and the editor isn't really a problem, just like with a video tutorial. I think the advantage here is that the map is more interactive and is much smaller in filesize than a video would be.

I am using a system that has several info points dotted throughout the map, that you can access by walking over, so the rewind problem isn't really there.
I've also made sure only one speech can be active at a time, and it's info sign is highlighted as long as it's text messages run, so that's not a problem I think.

Ah, that one, I remember the screenshot. Well, not really inspired by the Lost Coast commentary system, I've had this idea for maybe a year or two, I don't remember exactly. Just never did anything with it.
Strangely enough ZomblieLoffe commented on my map that it's a bad idea... I guess not everyone will like it, personally I don't like video tutorials either, but for some it could be helpfull, isn't it?

@BJ: Good idea, I was thinking along that line. Showing entities and brushes outlined or highlighted, with their properties, highlighting the things you're working on on that moment...

Anyway, keep in mind this map was just a quickly done one, not covering a real problem or anything, rather it's an experiment that I'm going to work out in the future.

Well, yeah, that's a good one. I'm already writing some tutorials for on my portfolio, attaching this sorts of maps to it would be a nice package I think. You either play through the map or read the tutorial, something like that...

I quickly made an example map today for someone who had trouble getting a func_door_rotating to work with glass parts. It's not a real hard problem, using two doors and triggering them, but I used this opportunity to implement something I'd thought about quite some time ago: an in-game tutorial.

The idea is to let someone play a map, show up entity information in a graphical way, display some information and thoughts about it, all in-game. Video tutorials seem to be popular amongst some people, so why not in-game tutorials?

Here's the map I made today. It's a quick draft and not exactly just how I have this in-game tutorial idea in mind, but I think it's a nice example of what I mean.

Like the idea? Got some requests perhaps? I might do this more in the future, perhaps some for HL and certainly some for Source. So, what do you guys think? It's a rough version I created and I have ideas on improving it, but how would you like to see this improved?

It's true, the rebels and Eli don't seem to be endorsed officially by the BMRF in any form, the logos and name seemed to just carry over.

True. Mainly because there is no BMRF anymore in HL2's time... if OpFor counts for the story of course...

Heh, just read an (far) above post saying too much time would get boring...

I don't think so. You don't have to map for competitions alone. Just start something for fun. That's what you do it for after all, isn't it?

I'm more interested in the layout you crammed into that room. Is it any fun to play or just a killbox?

Anyway, yeah, some presentable screenshots and some shots from a players point of view would give a better impression methinks.

Maybe it's only a bug with my OS

Need a playtester?

This may be true, but you do learn more if you figure things out for yourself...

I thought so at first too. But I think some things you can learn much faster by looking at good examples. I learned how to do scrolling textures in HL2 by looking at someone elses .vmt. Though I would've figured it out on the long run anyway, it saved me quite some time. Efficiency isn't wrong.

About that strange lighting problem, I have a long-term problem in HL that shows up the lightmaps a bit hussled through each other. Shining at them with the flashlight sets them to the correct position. Maybe it's some sort of problem like I have, maybe not... just what that lighting problem made me think about.

Don't use 0. 0.001 is a bit small... might be being ignored by HL, indeed.

I think it's more of a problem that due to the time it costs to render a frame HL just can't be that precise.
But to extend it to 10 - 15 seconds is strange. Try above suggestions, or test with some other entities to see if it's indeed a timing problem or a problem with that scripted_sentence.

Yeah, sure... why not?

Might be nice to know that Valve has such problems too. Like they said in one of their commentaries in the level, they left out a puzzle because it wasn't finished by the time the rest of the Lost Coast level was done. So, they cut it out, despite the fact they thought it was a really fun puzzle.

So, maybe you need to cut out some parts rather than just leaving it unfinished because you couldn't do everything you wanted? Good luck with it, everyone. I'm looking forward to some fresh disaster sequences.

Sorry, I mixed up some names. The tool used to embed custom content into a map is called bspzip, not winbsp. It's in the sourcesdk/bin folder.

However, bspzip has some trouble since the last SDK update (I believe since a month or so), since the updated compile tools produce v20 maps (probably due to the HDR update) but bspzip still accepts v19. That's why I use Pakrat. It works like a charm anyway as you can scan the map for custom content it uses, and automatically add it. Nice extra functionality.
You can't extract files from a .bsp with it though, so for that you'll have to use bspzip. I didn't try it yet, but here it's documented on how to do it.

My system doesn't support HDR, but it was a good play. I liked this commentary system, it's nice to get some insight in Valve's depelopment process.

In Source maps, you can include models and materials with winbsp (which comes with the Source SDK) or a custom tool like Pakrat. So, they're all put into the .bsp.

Performance: 9
Obviously, something that runs in frames per minutes doesn't work. When it plays smooth though, I don't really care if it could've been a few fps better or not.

Graphics: 9
I love beatiful maps, whether they play well or not. Just to look at. And while playing, I don't want to be disturbed by something downright ugly. Simple stuff, ok, ugly stuff, no.

Size: 4
Depends on the player count, the games speed

Shape: -
Don't really know what you mean, but I guess you mean square vs. round. Depends on the theme, the style, and all that. For me it's integrated with graphics.

Cover: 6
In a fast and frantic dm game, cover is less important than more 'realistic' games like CS or Battlefield. Still, it's nice to be able to duck behind a wall now and then...

Open area: 8
I usually avoid too open area's because it makes me an easy target, but a map shouldn't feel too cramped, or be just a serie of halls linked together. I want some space to dodge, too.

Halls: 6
These serve as connections between the hot zones for me. You need them to get to another area, and sometimes a fight can occur in them, but for me they're not the focus area's.

Rooms: 9
Just like size this depends on the player count and the game speed, but multiple rooms, or area's, add some variation. Don't forget their connections: rooms with 2 connections usually get boring faster than those with 3 or more.

Flow: 10
A part of the gameplay, this one is important. A map should ideally be easy to learn and easy to navigate, as well as being balanced so there's no places that are hardly ever visited. Encouraging players to run around is good in deathmatch too, I think. No camp spots with health, armor, weaponry and cover at the same spot. Seperating weapons and their ammo can encourage flow, or seperating weapons and health.

Verticle: 9
Another part of gameplay, vertical combat can be very fun. Hey, we've got 3D games now so why not use it? Being higher has advantages so it's also a tactical thing.

Obstacles: 3
Fast and easy movement is key. I don't play to avoid tiny obstacles, I play to get frags. To get a high-powered weapon however, you could make things difficult to provide challenge. It's the players own choice then after all. Though a too hard-to-get weapon might still be annoying.

Traps: 6
Not necessary, but when good executed these can be really fun. They can make a map stand out or break it. It can even give a totally different style of play, like crossfire does. That's almost king of the hill sometimes.

Variety: 7
Variety is important, but shouldn't get too distracting either. It shouldn't make the map feel overdone or inconsistent.

Style: 7
Not vital, but it can make a map stand out. I still remember Persian Letters, a hldm map that didn't completely got finished, but definitely had a very good and impressive style. It was as if I was in a Persian palace myself. It's the difference between good and excellent for me.

Easy item placement: 4
Depends a bit on the pace you plan for your level, I usually like the stronger weapons to be harder to get so the average lifespan is higher in the level.

Weapon range: 6
I like medium-range most, I'm often horrible with sniping but also with close-combat. Range is important, but varies from person to person. I think it's best to keep this varied, but maybe tend the map towards one end or the other.

Ambience: 9
Yeah, cool stuff that adds to the map. While not directly too important during a fragfest, I really like such extra touches.

Player count: 8 - 10
Probably the average amount of people a map should support, this is a flexible target count I believe.

Y'need lots of posts like that to get an award wink-wink - ;).

Stop it, will ya... you make me feel old...

Next HL compo, I hope my little brother (10) is trained enough to join. He's mastering the clipping tool as we speak and snapping to grid whereever possible now.

Hmm, I like this space-ship. Even with those textures I think it looks nice already. I agree some other textures could improve it, yeah.

To be honest I was the one who commented on them the last time wink-wink -

There's about 5 sites I get comments from, but you are indeed the most recent to comment on it...

Thanks, I'll keep working on it and I'll have another beta out soon.

Just jumping in without reading a lot of this thread, after seeing that the mapping percentage went down...

Did you guys plan out something or are you just going where Hammer leads you, so to say?

Nice you like it.
I'm still working on the sounds, the waterfall has gotten a new one now and I'm thinking about specking each area with some specific sounds. Right now I'm spending more time on the lighting and adding prop models to replace those grey/orange boxes.

Thanks for pointing out that missing texture anyway, BJ, I'll take better care checking if everything works next time.
Basically, it's in the crystals cave, and it's going to be a rock, though it's not finally skinned yet so you didn't miss anything really.

@Bratty: Yeah, I'm working on those stretched textures, more people noticed them so it has a priority now.

Ah, I forgot the download link for version 14: mudanchee_v14. For everyone that wants to check out the layout, here it is. It is an older version than seen on the screenshots, but the layout is mostly the same, it's just darker, less detailed and more rough.

@Kasperg: There's a brighter area, the waterfall cave, that I haven't gotten around to get in a good enough shape to take screenshots from though. You can see it in the download if you like. This map is divided into 4 related theme's and it's not that big so getting lost isn't really an issue.

@Satchmo: I'm working on some spotlights, coming from flashlights. The red glow was suggested on the Snarkpit too and I agree completely. Will be added.

Thanks for the comments. Helps me pinpoint some stuff more.

Yet still nice.

Could use some height variation in those buildings though, they look equally high on that shot.

Hmm, I find that plan hard to read, I mean, hard to pinpoint an overall layout from, but those screenshots look good. It has style.

Seventh made a good comment: those valves behind the grates could use a light or two. A valve or two, too. And maybe some more stuff on the ceiling to make it look higher and more interesting?

Anyway, nice to see something getting started there. Keep it up.

Probably hard-coded sprites or such. Simple yellow dots, nothing too fancy to even use a sprite for.

As far as I know, they don't show up when developer is set to 0, though. It's a developer sign only.

I'm slowly but steadily proceeding with this map, after some playtests it turned out to play very well so I'm now at the detailing stage. This is v16 which means there's a lot more prop models in in (though barely skinned yet) and the lighting is much more close to final in most area's.

Well, onto the screenshots:Gloomy lighting on a dark, high rock-wandDangling worklights... yeah, gravity-gun-fun More worklights and electricity cables. The generator still has to be modelled.Waterfall. Spot the secret... View from within the tomb. The tomb itself has been made deeper.

Tell me what you think of it. Feedback is greatly appreciated.

Decompiling is fine people... just don't steal.

Though asking the author is a better idea imho (though in official maps, that might be somewhat difficult). I know I've decompiled several HL2 models and materials to look at how the .qc files were set-up and how the alpha-channels in their textures were done. Pakrat for example, was made by extensively studying the .bsp format (if not reverse-engineering) so it even works with the new v20 .bsp's while Valve's winbsp still expects v19...

I've checked Jon Jones blog a while ago, and David Johnstons. Both had some interesting reads, but I usually don't check blogs on a regular basis. Just when I come around an interesting one. Which means, the ones I read are only mappers or game-designers blogs.

No console for me. I understand why some people like them, and from a developers point of view it's less trouble with different system specs, but a PC is much more versatile for me and that's an important factor as well. I don't just play games, I program and create levels, models, sites... and a PC is often upgradeable, which isn't a strong point for consoles.

For a storage room, red light is bad. Would you use red lights in a storage room that you store your tools in? No, it makes some things hard to see. You'd better put in some yellowish or white light.

Red lights are more meant for alarm installations and such stuff. Not really your average light color for daily use...

Indeed, the rest disappears when you only selected one face and turn it into a displacement. These faces will not be rendered, you don't need to give them the nodraw texture for that.

There's a trick here, in case you need another face of a brush to be a displacement and don't want to destroy the already existing displacement surface.
There are 3 buttons related to displacements in the top button row. All have a blue D on them for obvious reasons. The right one toggles the visibility of walkable area's (non-walkable parts show up yellow).
The middle button displays the other faces of brushes that have displacement mapped faces. This is usefull: it lets you select those faces and turn them into displacements without having to delete the displacements of that brush.

Yeah, start out simple. Most detail is done with models so the brushwork is best kept simple. Play around a bit with displacements and try to get familiar the new entity I/O system somewhat. There's a wealth of new entities and stuff available, but you don't need everything immediatly. Just experiment a bit and try to get used to the high model usage. That's probably the biggest change for HL mappers.